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Salvos Rhoska
#3061 - 2014-03-26 16:44:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
---.

Yet none of the implications you contrived against the poster where even REMOTELY justified or following from what he had actually said. I mean it was unbelievably unrelated and far fetched.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3062 - 2014-03-26 16:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: olan2005
Quote:


if this were done via in game chat and the "bonus room antics" were completely in character for the game avatars being respresented I would have nuked this threadnaught 150 pages ago and said move on nothing to see here. But the way this is executed means you can't do it this way in game because the EULA would tear you a new one. It is impossible for waht has transiupred here to be done so completely in context of a game.

Tear harvesting through suicide gank, corp scams, awox style, wardec, miner nuking etc is all action levelled directly against an in game character. Pulling someone to TS to humilaite them is not humiliating an in game character is it ??? its ripping a strip of a real living breathing human and that is where the line gets crossed.

you can't say this was an in game stunt levelled at an in game avatar, the evidence to hand proves that, you have got real humans ripping someone and a contestant incting racial hatred and threatening all kinds of batshit crazy stuff. If the contestand was shouting I am going to get my ass over to Gallente space, dock up in Rens and beat the crap out of scotty the station master thats in game.................... what E1 et al did was not game related in anyway shape or form on TS, what the contestant did equally in his response to the situation wasn't either.



- original sub thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4394163#post4394163

+1 i fully agree
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#3063 - 2014-03-26 16:45:15 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
So I just went to the library.

A woman shows up, sits next to me, passes out and is snoring really loud.
This is obviously inappropriate behavior, she obviously singled me out, she's obviously done this to other people before, and it's making me crazy.

Should I walk away, and tell one of the librarians, or is it acceptable to go into a ugly racist rant and threaten to gut her?

What does Rippard Teg and his minions think?



one of the worst analogies ever, I must say.

She doesn't pass out, but takes your book, shoes, panties and all. Then she's making you dance, sing and whine for two hours which you do as you hope to get a least your panties back.

Of course you're the idiot that let this happen in the first place, and for sure you're just proving your idiocy just one more time if you start a rant afterwards...

During all the time someone's beside the scene, watching it, and then says it reprehensible that the guy started to rant, he should have shown a bit of humor.

Is this acceptable?

I'm not trying to defend an idiot here.

Both parties in this story do have issues (huge ones in my view). And it's hard to believe that things like that can happen in a game that should be played by mature adults.

Powers Sa
#3064 - 2014-03-26 16:45:35 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:


I don't mind making you vocally quit again.



Typing is "vocally" ?? Since when.


And did your lame tactics work ? Obviously not.

But thanks for the illustration of behaviors that are being complained about loudly in this thread. Well done.

EVE is indeed full of unthinking creeps out for grade-school level lulz.

I don't think I've seen someone flame out so spectacularly. You took a good long break from eve. You needed it, but now you're walking yourself back into my cross hairs, exercising the poor judgement we all know you posses.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.

Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3065 - 2014-03-26 16:46:19 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Absolutely. Its irrelevant. But its a nice attempt to shift the blame from the people who did do the wrong thing onto the victim. Actually, not its pretty transparent and a bad attempt.

Somebody took his stuff, granted it was just pixels, however that's irrelevant. Whats relevant is a number of people deliberately set out to humiliate and embarrass another person without any regard for them at all. They also made fun of him because he had a speech impediment which is vilification based on disability. There are a lot of things wrong with what they did and your pathetic attempts to try to justify the behavior is, well, pathetic.

Also relevant is if it happened again and a more imbalanced person was deliberately targeted and treated the same way causing that person to harm themselves then CCP would likely be liable in part since they are now fully aware of whats occurring and doing nothing would be pretty stupid from a legal point of view.

CCP has nothing to gain by allowing this behavior to continue and potentially a lot to lose.



Thanks for attacking me, I think I'll call the space police now.

On a more serious note, you completely danced around the fact that he left and came back multiple times. So, what's your stance on that? Personally, my stance is he could have left, but chose to stay. I know this argument has been brought up several times, but I believe most people simply overlook it. If he was being made fun of to the point of mental distress, he then should have logged off and taken the loss of his pixels. I am interested to hear what you legitimately have to say about it (no sarcasm).

If anyone hurts themselves, or others due to a video game, the blame is not on the developer of said video game but of someone/something else; family, or lack thereof is usually the first to blame.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3066 - 2014-03-26 16:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
---.

Yet none of the implications you contrived against the poster where even REMOTELY justified or following from what he had actually said. I mean it was unbelievably unrelated and far fetched.
So... you've resorted to intentionally blanking quotes and then going off at what I presume is a completely unrelated tangent of personal attacks because you have nothing of importance to say?

Once again, please quote the offending post in full, so that I can retort in full without having to lower myself to your level.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

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Anslo
Scope Works
#3067 - 2014-03-26 16:47:36 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:


I don't mind making you vocally quit again.



Typing is "vocally" ?? Since when.


And did your lame tactics work ? Obviously not.

But thanks for the illustration of behaviors that are being complained about loudly in this thread. Well done.

EVE is indeed full of unthinking creeps out for grade-school level lulz.

I don't think I've seen someone flame out so spectacularly. You took a good long break from eve. You needed it, but now you're walking yourself back into my cross hairs, exercising the poor judgement we all know you posses.

Careful with that edge bro, it's pretty sharp.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#3068 - 2014-03-26 16:48:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
One Eyed Runner wrote:
[...]

The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another.

[...]
That's pretty much spot on for what Erotica and its 'friends' did.
Nope. Bonus rounds are one-time affairs intended to offer large payouts.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3069 - 2014-03-26 16:49:11 UTC
Iq Cadaen wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:

Oh yes, I fully agree that facebook stuff is really blurred, as the perpetrator and victim's (in most cases just the victims though) REAL NAME/IDENTITY etc. are involved. However, in a video game, where you can play any character as anonymously as you wish, where the things you fight/scam/mine/kill rats over are just imaginary pixels, I can't see how people still subject themselves to humiliation Question

You really don't get it?
I'll grant that the victim was, frankly, stupid. But that's beside the point. More importantly he was gullible and easily manipulated - just the kind of people E1 looks for.
People who've played this game for a while and intend to keep doing so for the foreseeable future assign value to these space pixels that oh-so-many on this thread claim they can just walk away from in the blink of an eye.
For all you know his whole world would've collapsed in his eyes if he lost it all and had to start over. And that's exactly what E1 and Co. are hoping for, nay, counting on. And that is exactly why he couldn't let go, couldn't leave.
They are predators who get their jollies from pushing people's buttons until they either 1) get sufficient entertainment value out of them or 2) push the right buttons to break them. This is a great example of social engineering at it's worst.

My personal stance is that E1 (and Co) should be permanently banned for repeated conduct completely outside the realm of common human decency. The in-game asset scamming part I'm completely fine with OTOH.

Actually, yes, I really don't get it.

The victim could just as easily have had a balanced view of the world and realised that at the end of the day, he was outsmarted at pixelated internet monies and walked away. IF his whole world would have collapsed yada yada, I don't see how that is any fault of anyone but himself for not being able to put virtual reality and real life into the proper perspective.

The reasons why he 'couldn't let go, couldn't leave' were self-inflicted, granted it IS good social engineering (note that I have not taken a position on whether I think the perpetrator's actions were morally/ethically/socially acceptable or not).
Salvos Rhoska
#3070 - 2014-03-26 16:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Once again, please quote the offending post in full, so that I can retort in full without having to lower myself to your level.

The blanking of quotes is to save space. I hate quote chains. I don't need to repeat everything you have said as an addendum in my post. It is sufficient that your name is on it so you know you are being addressed.

This is the one Im talking about: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4394057#post4394057

All he said, is that he thinks the FBI is really that efficient and meticulous (which I dont agree with, but whatever), but the CONTRIVANCES you get out of that by false implication. Full pants on head absolutely unbelievable. Its the kind of completely unrelated mindboggling utterances of conclusions so far removed from what was said, that the entire room just stops and stares at you.
Big Lynx
#3071 - 2014-03-26 16:50:45 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
I have been playing this game for many many years now, and have never really been comfortable with the whole scamming thing. I think it spoils the game and actually drives people away. Scamming as become so prevalent in Eve its over taken the good aspects of it. Look at jita every single post in chat is a scam.

I dont like the fact that goonswarm do this constantly to a point its part of their culture, and sometimes the way they do it is a little creepy and weird and wrong.

But this is a whole new level, and its just not about a scam, its cyber bullying, torture at is very worse. I am sure this is certainly not the first case of this and its happening to others by other eve players.

You can hear from the start where this was going, and Erotica1 sounds really creepy tbh. They carried on for 2 hours, even when they knew the guy was getting upset, this is when you stop. Actually it should of never started.

This is for me the real darkside of eve, and where scamming takes it past gameplay. I have never played or seen a game that allows this to happen, or even breeds that type of person. The very idea of scamming has created these people, and CCP certainly has to take brunt of the blame for this as they endorse this type of behavior, but its gone a a step too far. as stated I am sure there are many Erotica1s lurking about.

This is just not scamming, its parasidic and morally wrong. Personally i would of called the police and given them the recording as people are now getting prosecuted for this type of thing. What gets me most is that there have been a few cases on twitter etc where people have committed suicide because of people like this. What if this guy did?

CCP has a duty just like twitter and others to protect its users.

However being a veteran player of this game, even after the time an investment i have made, every moral fibre in me is twitching. I am now seriously thinking do i want to pay, play or be a part of this game, ccp and its community if this is something that is happening to people. I certainly do not want to be associated with an organisation or game that endorses such actions and game play anymore.



Mario Putzo
#3072 - 2014-03-26 16:51:37 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Once again, please quote the offending post in full, so that I can retort in full without having to lower myself to your level.

This one: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4394057#post4394057


Hey did you ever go to that bonus round last night? Or did you shy away after expressing desire to see Erotica 1 harmed at Fanfest?
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#3073 - 2014-03-26 16:52:35 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Can somebody please remind me how many times Sohkar left the Bonus Room....only to return?




And this question would be directed to those who actually listened to the recording in its entirety...not the sheeple who just read the blog and are therefore experts in this situation....


I counted at least three times. Maybe four?
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#3074 - 2014-03-26 16:53:18 UTC
Capt Starfox wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Absolutely. Its irrelevant. But its a nice attempt to shift the blame from the people who did do the wrong thing onto the victim. Actually, not its pretty transparent and a bad attempt.

Somebody took his stuff, granted it was just pixels, however that's irrelevant. Whats relevant is a number of people deliberately set out to humiliate and embarrass another person without any regard for them at all. They also made fun of him because he had a speech impediment which is vilification based on disability. There are a lot of things wrong with what they did and your pathetic attempts to try to justify the behavior is, well, pathetic.

Also relevant is if it happened again and a more imbalanced person was deliberately targeted and treated the same way causing that person to harm themselves then CCP would likely be liable in part since they are now fully aware of whats occurring and doing nothing would be pretty stupid from a legal point of view.

CCP has nothing to gain by allowing this behavior to continue and potentially a lot to lose.



Thanks for attacking me, I think I'll call the space police now.

On a more serious note, you completely danced around the fact that he left and came back multiple times. So, what's your stance on that? Personally, my stance is he could have left, but chose to stay. I know this argument has been brought up several times, but I believe most people simply overlook it. If he was being made fun of to the point of mental distress, he then should have logged off and taken the loss of his pixels. I am interested to hear what you legitimately have to say about it (no sarcasm).

If anyone hurts themselves, or others due to a video game, the blame is not on the developer of said video game but of someone/something else; family, or lack thereof is usually the first to blame.


Your argument loses its legs though when you examine what kind of other events set precedents for how something like this would potentially be handled.

For example social media sites have a legal responsibility (albiet a loose one) to the safeguarding of its userbases well being. Cases in context are the classic facebook trolls and subsequent actions taken against them.

In much the same way CCP has a similar responsibility. That this happened on TS to avoid the EULA is obvious, however it was done so on the back of leveraging CCP IP and their game. Thus CCP cannot effectively hide while they are getting media mud thrown at their windows.

If this was all done using EVE's in game comm system what do you think would have been the outcome ?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3075 - 2014-03-26 16:54:51 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:


Better watch out, Unsuccessful.

Logic, reason, and factual evidence doesn't work with the vast majority of this crowd.

Just the words of some dude who didn't get his way, and is strong-arming CCP into pursuing his will, via threats of " bad media coverage."

Who admitted to not perusing the recording, but then has the nerve to call people, in a recording he did not hear... torturers.

Both you and I know who the real people to blame are, and I am confident that CCP does as well.

And to think...we are the "bad people" coming from the hundreds of veiled threats in this thread. Roll

And again, CCP, if it pleases you, you are more than welcome to the vast collection of actual factual evidence, that quite frankly is at your disposal. After all, I have been an outspoken supporter of the sandbox you built for us, and any help I can provide is just return for the kindness of enjoying your world. You guys are great.



I too find it to be amusing that the Erotica supporters are the ones being polite and reasonable, and are providing very reasoned and factual arguments, while the opposition is providing nothing meaningful to the conversation, is making false reports to law enforcement in hopes of getting some kind of response, has repeatedly flip-flopped on their positions (my favorite was in the page 108-112 range when they actually stopped portraying the victim as a victim started making grounds for Insanity on behalf of the victim and questioning his mental faculties... that was golden, not to mention how TS is covered under Eve onlines ToS and EULA...then it wasn't...then it was... also golden), has made several threats..both veiled and un-veiled, and has actually themselves now entered into the realm of cyberbullying under the guise of being white knights against cyberbullying.

Im sure CCP, and anyone else who is actually paying attention to everything instead of the sound of their own voice, can see all of this...

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3076 - 2014-03-26 16:54:54 UTC
Upde wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
Quote:
*snipped for brevity*

OK, semantically it didn't happen within the game client. Contextually though, it is within the, admittedly rather loose, boundaries of the game world. What would have been your stance if this occurred through the in-game chat?

EDIT: In any case though, the victim had the option of walking away from it easily... All he had to do was disconnect from the third party voice server, which as far as I know does not require someone to disclose their personal details before being able to connect (or having to login via facebook etc.).


if this were done via in game chat and the "bonus room antics" were completely in character for the game avatars being respresented I would have nuked this threadnaught 150 pages ago and said move on nothing to see here. But the way this is executed means you can't do it this way in game because the EULA would tear you a new one. It is impossible for waht has transiupred here to be done so completely in context of a game.

Tear harvesting through suicide gank, corp scams, awox style, wardec, miner nuking etc is all action levelled directly against an in game character. Pulling someone to TS to humilaite them is not humiliating an in game character is it ??? its ripping a strip of a real living breathing human and that is where the line gets crossed.

you can't say this was an in game stunt levelled at an in game avatar, the evidence to hand proves that, you have got real humans ripping someone and a contestant incting racial hatred and threatening all kinds of batshit crazy stuff. If the contestand was shouting I am going to get my ass over to Gallente space, dock up in Rens and beat the crap out of scotty the station master thats in game.................... what E1 et al did was not game related in anyway shape or form on TS, what the contestant did equally in his response to the situation wasn't either.

The scam itself is perfectly ok, the post scam actions are what brings this debacle into question

Again, semantically, it did NOT happen in-game.

Nevertheless I'm still of the opinion that if the victim willingly subjects himself to degradation, that's a problem that lies with the victim.
Mario Putzo
#3077 - 2014-03-26 16:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Upde wrote:

If this was all done using EVE's in game comm system what do you think would have been the outcome ?


Much less comedic value thats for sure. Oh and less page views for Ripard who is abusing this situation for website traffic.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3078 - 2014-03-26 16:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Once again, please quote the offending post in full, so that I can retort in full without having to lower myself to your level.

The blanking of quotes is to save space. I hate quote chains. I don't need to repeat everything you have said as an addendum in my post. It is sufficient that your name is on it so you know you are being addressed.

This is the one Im talking about: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4394057#post4394057

All he said, is that he thinks the FBI is really that efficient and meticulous (which I dont agree with, but whatever), but the CONTRIVANCES you get out of that by false implication. Full pants on head absolutely unbelievable. Its the kind of completely unrelated mindboggling utterances of conclusions so far removed from what was said, that the entire room just stops and stares at you.

You mean the reply to the post where Luminous Spirit used the words paedophilia, the censored form of sexual assault etc; in an entirely out of context manner while seeming to compare them to the loss of internet spaceships?

And I'm supposed to be the one who is illiterate?

Speaking of unbelievable pants on head posts, have you taken the time to read some of your own? The barrack room legalese is especially amusing.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3079 - 2014-03-26 16:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Moloney
This is the sort of thing that will pit the balance against b-r in terms of drawing new players.

There are several gaming sites more or less calling the eve player base complete scum.

With this as an example I do not know how anyone could deny it.

Scams are one thing, complete humiliation and degradation of another human irrispective of their own stupidity is wrong.

Next we are going to get recording or chat logs of a mentally chalanged Person being ridiculed or god knows what these guys thing is appropriate for minors...

Change is needed.
Salvos Rhoska
#3080 - 2014-03-26 16:56:35 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Hey did you ever go to that bonus round last night? Or did you shy away after expressing desire to see Erotica 1 harmed at Fanfest?

I hung around in belligerent voice for a bit after kindly being invited.
We discussed Erotica1 a bit but he wasn't around. Mostly we discussed the ingame/outgame thing.

And I have no desire to see Erotica1 harmed.
Don't come at me with the false implications, please. I already have 3-4 other guys set to do that on me.