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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2921 - 2014-03-26 15:40:44 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
He consents to both.

Please explain to me EXACTLY how you come to this conclusion.

Be as specific as possible.
He says he consents to both.

There's really no wrangling your way out this, it's plainly stated on the recording, so I'm done responding to this asinine line of argument.

But as a sorted of deleted-scene-DVD-extra, here's what I would have said if, by some magic, you could demonstrate that the client did not say what he said - who cares? CCP are not the police, and neither are we, and a grey-area TS recording is nothing to do with either.

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Iso Anneto
Doomheim
#2922 - 2014-03-26 15:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Iso Anneto
olan2005 wrote:
Iso Anneto wrote:
Seriously people?
This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in to anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 being insane, but mostly greed.



Thats like saying its the coppers fault for being shot , because he choose to be a police officer. The getting scammed is the victim fault. The Bonus room shenanigans is the fault of the scammers taking it too far .


Um, no.
It's similar but completely different, the police(wo)man is obliged to do it, it is his/her job and there are things that matter on the line, the guy lost what? Less than $40 worth of in game assets, as I said earlier, he could have left if he wanted to, he stayed because of pure greed.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2923 - 2014-03-26 15:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
...



Its OK buddy. We understand.

But do not worry, a properly worded crime tip to the FBI and other agencies does not go unnoticed.

It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.

And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '

THEY WILL COME.


And you...you just visualize a cage in a zoo with a monkey in it. Puts things in perspective doesnt it.

You do know what happened the last time the FBI tried to do something in Iceland don't you?

Contrary to popular belief, US law only applies in the US. If you're a US citizen they might want to have a word with you about wasting their time and making threats of physical violence over the internet though, which is as far as I'm aware, an offence in most legal jurisdictions.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2924 - 2014-03-26 15:44:33 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Would that 3rd party not vphave to confirm consent from you and the pereon you are calling in order to do so?
Firstly consent was given as far as I can tell, secondly you're blindly ignoring that in real life there are 3rd parties who can, and often do record phone calls without either parties consent; you may even have heard of these third parties, or voted for them, they're called governments.


I have heard of them. I have not heard of any EVE player being a government or having that right.

And no, consent is not confirmed.

1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said.
2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said.
3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded.
4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder.
5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording.

If you don't confirm the above from every participant in the recording, the recording is infact illegal.
Thats just how it is. That is how arbitrary the law is on matters such as this, and in general.


Lol. Let's run with this.

1) There is no evidence that suggests the victim was not in the room.
2) There is no evidence that suggests the victim did not hear.
3) Even if this were true, the victim was made aware of the recordings through the comms program and by choosing to stay was consenting to the recording.
4) See above.
5) If IRL names were being revealed, this would matter. Since they're not, this is irrelevant.

Isn't court fun?

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#2925 - 2014-03-26 15:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkPanter
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
He consents to both.

Please explain to me EXACTLY how you come to this conclusion.

Be as specific as possible.
He says he consents to both.

There's really no wrangling your way out this, it's plainly stated on the recording, so I'm done responding to this asinine line of argument.

But as a sorted of deleted-scene-DVD-extra, here's what I would have said if, by some magic, you could demonstrate that the client did not say what he said - who cares? CCP are not the police, and neither are we, and a grey-area TS recording is nothing to do with either.


It also depends under which circumstances words were spoken.
If he said it in belief that E1 actions were sincere then all good but when E1 actions are quite obviously premeditated attempt to inflict emotional harm then at some point there's no consent as it was given under stress, pressure, outside influence and so on.

I know you all trying to help the dude but just let it go and let's wait for CCP.
If they go silent about it then **** it I'll be the next guy to cut my accounts by half cause I simply do not like where this is heading if not constrained asap.
I want to play a game but this is not a game anymore if you allow for **** like that to go on.
Delicious Charen-Teng
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2926 - 2014-03-26 15:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Delicious Charen-Teng
I can't believe that this community is justifying a person treating another person like this. I've even heard a CSM member likening people's anger against this to the behaviour of a homophobic dictator.

Is this the 'New' Eden?

If so, I have no desire to be a part of it, no matter how much fun shooting peoples spaceships is.
Powers Sa
#2927 - 2014-03-26 15:45:13 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Burn Jita, Interdictions, etc, were not aimed at any particular individual.

I've noticed you in palas the past few weeks and let you be. If you're going to start posting again, I may have to fire the engines of woe back up.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Destitute Tehol Beddict
Binary Trading
#2928 - 2014-03-26 15:45:18 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
He consents to both.

Please explain to me EXACTLY how you come to this conclusion.

Be as specific as possible.
He says he consents to both.

There's really no wrangling your way out this, it's plainly stated on the recording, so I'm done responding to this asinine line of argument.

But as a sorted of deleted-scene-DVD-extra, here's what I would have said if, by some magic, you could demonstrate that the client did not say what he said - who cares? CCP are not the police, and neither are we, and a grey-area TS recording is nothing to do with either.


He consents to recording while being recorded... That makes lots of sense?

Loot Buying service: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4529397#post4529397
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2929 - 2014-03-26 15:45:30 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:
The Lynch Mob is standing in the street holding up a rope, armed and angry, what you going to do CCP?


What lynch mob? Aside from a few hundred people in this thread, no one seems to care from what I can tell.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2930 - 2014-03-26 15:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Going through this thread I only see 1 thing.

Idiots on both sides of the fence.

Luminous whatever with his ******** entitlement "lets get the FBI involved" to others thinking of doing even worse.

You people need to step back and let CCP do their job. If they feel they don't need to do anything then that is it.

If you really feel you need make a change, there is a JOB section @ CCPgames.com Go make your difference instead of whining here on the forums.

What a bunch of bloody posers.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2931 - 2014-03-26 15:47:22 UTC
Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:

He consents to recording while being recorded... That makes lots of sense?


Yes.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2932 - 2014-03-26 15:48:05 UTC
Batelle wrote:

What lynch mob? Aside from a few hundred people in this thread, no one seems to care from what I can tell.


The lack of people commenting, at the moment atleast, is because not everybody knows yet. If this hits RL news, like the battle in B-R there will be a ungodly amount of hate, hassle and bad press for CCP

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2933 - 2014-03-26 15:48:20 UTC
PinkPanter wrote:
E1 actions are quite obviously premeditated attempt to inflict emotional harm
Please. His actions were premeditated to garner some lulz, albeit in a juvenile fashion, and someone who probably shouldn't be playing serious business internet games went hulk mode on him. There are japanese game shows which will do far worse to you.

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Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2934 - 2014-03-26 15:48:46 UTC
Delicious Charen-Teng wrote:
I can't believe that this community is justifying a person treating another person like this. I've even heard CSM member likening people's anger against this to the behaviour of a homophobic dictator.

Is this the 'New' Eden.

Not at all sure I want to be a part of it anymore.


Better read those CSM posts more carefully then. He's merely stating that banning erotica1 is not justified in this situation. That's not the same as justifying any of erotica1's actions.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2935 - 2014-03-26 15:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: olan2005
Iso Anneto wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
Iso Anneto wrote:
Seriously people?
This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in to anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 being insane, but mostly greed.



Thats like saying its the coppers fault for being shot , because he choose to be a police officer. The getting scammed is the victim fault. The Bonus room shenanigans is the fault of the scammers taking it too far .


Um, no.
It's similar but completely different, the police(wo)man is obliged to do it, it is his/her job and there are things that matter in the line, the guy lost what? Less than $40 worth of in game assets, as I said earlier, he could have left if he wanted to, he stayed because of pure greed.


OK theoretically i scam you . Take all you isk and assets . Then give you a chance to get them back using the bonus room method . NOW say you have a lot of time and effort put into the game. you are going to comply due to the coercion of holding you entire eve career assets to ransom if you do not . If erotica1 action were legal why did he not use the in-game chat for this . I WILL tell why due to the fact that CCP would ban him for going to far. The coercion element of the bonus room aspect of the scam is what negates any consent given to the scammer by the victim . Still the victim should have been wiser and quit after the initial scam. The scammer should have used moderation and quit while he was ahead , instead of being a narcissistic prick
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2936 - 2014-03-26 15:49:49 UTC
Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:
He consents to recording while being recorded... That makes lots of sense?
Well if his consent isn't recorded, what use would it be?

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PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#2937 - 2014-03-26 15:49:54 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Batelle wrote:

What lynch mob? Aside from a few hundred people in this thread, no one seems to care from what I can tell.


The lack of people commenting, at the moment atleast, is because not everybody knows yet. If this hits RL news, like the battle in B-R there will be a ungodly amount of hate, hassle and bad press for CCP


Already is. Somebody posted a link to games website and all you need to do is read those comment sections.
It's bad and CCP is busy building ******** monuments instead of dealing with this **** asap.
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#2938 - 2014-03-26 15:49:54 UTC
http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/consent-and-its-limits

As with most legal issues the answer to the consent question is not clear. Erotica 1 would most likely escape any legal action because this is too small-time for anyone to be interested in it. But you never know.

What if the victim withdraws his consent to be taped, or to have the conversation distributed? In a context like this one, when the sole purpose of the recording is to embarrass this person, and when the recording serves no other purpose, I suspect that the consent could be withdrawn at any time.

To those of you who support the Bonus Room as a legitimate Eve activity, what is the line an Eve player would have to cross to get you to admit he did something wrong?
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2939 - 2014-03-26 15:50:36 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
If erotica1 action were legal why did he not use the in-game chat for this
You can't sing songs via text.

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PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#2940 - 2014-03-26 15:50:55 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
http://www.rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/consent-and-its-limits

As with most legal issues the answer to the consent question is not clear. Erotica 1 would most likely escape any legal action because this is too small-time for anyone to be interested in it. But you never know.

What if the victim withdraws his consent to be taped, or to have the conversation distributed? In a context like this one, when the sole purpose of the recording is to embarrass this person, and when the recording serves no other purpose, I suspect that the consent could be withdrawn at any time.

To those of you who support the Bonus Room as a legitimate Eve activity, what is the line an Eve player would have to cross to get you to admit he did something wrong?


It would have to happen to them or somebody they actually care about.
Narrow minded mentality.