These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Jester Trek Latest Blog

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Fade Toblack
Per.ly
The 20 Minuters
#2901 - 2014-03-26 15:28:28 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Fade Toblack wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
those items never belonged to him in the first place. They are property of CCP, as are all in game assets.


Care to contract me all the CCP-owned stuff that appears in the wallets and hangars you have access to in-game then if it means nothing?

I never said they mean nothing, I said they were not his property... which is entirely accurate.

He literally only lost imaginary pixels that were not his to begin with.

It is a setback to his success in a video game, nothing more. While that may understandably upset him a bit, he (and we all) should keep this firmly in the correct perspective.



So setup those contracts then, you'll only lose some imaginary pixels that are not yours to begin with.

You're presumably adult enough to accept the set-back and not get upset about it?
Iso Anneto
Doomheim
#2902 - 2014-03-26 15:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Iso Anneto
Seriously people?
This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in TS anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 Beijing insane, but mostly greed.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2903 - 2014-03-26 15:29:49 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
3 - CCP need to implement a guideline policy for these situations .SCAMMING SHOULD STAY LEGAL , but PROLONGED TEAR EXTRACTION , should BE ADVISED AGAINST. It should be understood if you take it TOO FAR (as in this case) THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES


They already have a policy on harassment and if anything, they should clarify what that means and include any particular boundary within the existing policy.

To me that would be the neatest way to deal with this and then move on. No bans, just a line relating to harassment that is a little broader than it currently is.

We don't need more protections, just clearer guidelines around boundary issues that help everyone determine when something should be stopped, not because CCP has a better moral compass than the players, but because things like the bonus room, asking ransom victims in game to sing, etc. should be allowed to continue as long as they comply.


AGREED , on the clearer guidelines. I think taking scamming activities outside of the game is another major issue here. Scamming rule should be added only allowing the use of in-game mechanisms for this activity would be the ideal way to deal with it. That way CCP have more control , and a clearer record of who did what , and when was it done. I do retain that punishment is due for the player scammers involved in this . THEY TOOK it too far in my opinion and some punishment like asset reversal and isk penalties are in order . But mostly I WOULD LIKE A PUBLIC CCP RESPONSE ON THIS. With a clear stance on this incident
Mikey Aivo
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#2904 - 2014-03-26 15:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikey Aivo
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said.
2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said.
3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded.
4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder.
5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording.
Please provide a link to the recording you are talking about, becuase it is obviously not the one in the blog post being discussed.


It applies to Sohkar's recording.

None of the above can be confirmed from that recording.
At the end, he does say "I know I am being recorded and this will be distributed", but that does not suffice to make it legal on the part of the recorder. These things have to be properly confirmed right at the start.

I realise this may seem silly to some people, but that is what most laws are on this matter.
If you don't have the above confirmed from EVERY participant in the recording, it is illegal.

And this is exactly what is at the root of the problem with Erotica1's out of game activities.
What laws govern them? Who is ensuring that the legal rights of the participants are being guaranteed?
In-game CCP does that. But what about in T3?

You can't act lawlessly just cos you are on a TS server.



When someone is recording in teamspeak theres a red dot to the right of their name. Also when you start recording the clinet say user has started recording. Both visual and audio. End of the day though thays ero1's ts server he can do whatever he wants on there and anyone who decides to join him has done so on their own free will.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2905 - 2014-03-26 15:31:27 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Icylce wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Would that 3rd party not vphave to confirm consent from you and the pereon you are calling in order to do so?
Firstly consent was given as far as I can tell, secondly you're blindly ignoring that in real life there are 3rd parties who can, and often do record private phone calls without either parties consent; you may even have heard of these 3rd parties, or voted for them, they're called U.S. government.


Fixed it for u.

Wow, if you think this only happens in the US do YOU have a lot to learn. Big smileBig smileBig smile


In England even the newspapers do it.

They did kind of get their fingers smacked when they got caught at it though.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2906 - 2014-03-26 15:31:45 UTC
Iso Anneto wrote:
Seriously people?
This guy could at ANY time leave the channel. He even knew what was going on (he said he did in to anyway), he could have left, he stayed because he wanted the money, it's his fault he was "tortured", simply because he was greedy. If he had cut his losses or not been greedy, he could've avoided all of this. Pure greed is the cause. And E1 Beijing insane, but mostly greed.



Thats like saying its the coppers fault for being shot , because he choose to be a police officer. The getting scammed is the victim fault. The Bonus room shenanigans is the fault of the scammers taking it too far .
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2907 - 2014-03-26 15:32:14 UTC
Drakast wrote:
144 pages later and ive just proved to myself i will m*sturbate to anything.

if i told you i was psychotic, deranged and incarcerated for more than 20 years, for terrible crimes against society and i play this game every day from my jail cell, are you all going to shout and moan til i get banned? or does it already say somewhere that prisoners are not allowed to play eve?

there is a line to be drawn and its down to you lot to draw it. if you think ero deserves punishment then go out and form up a hell camp, band together and make his eve life short and pain filled

stop asking ccp to nanny you anymore than it has to. we live in the sandbox, if you dont like whats going on sort it out yourselves.

ero went too far (from what ive seen on this monster thread) sort him out. simple.

end of thread



I've worked alongside a lot of ex-cons and to bring ex-cons into this would be off the mark. The reason why I state that is because every ex-con I ever spoke to about their sentence pretty much said the same thing, to paraphrase "I know what I was doing when I did it and when I got caught I knew where I was going".

I have yet to see that kind of honesty from the Bonus Room Fetishists.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2908 - 2014-03-26 15:32:25 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
They half ass it. You have to confirm the consent both for recording AND distribution.
He consents to both. Saying otherwise won't make it so.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2909 - 2014-03-26 15:32:59 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
...



Its OK buddy. We understand.

But do not worry, a properly worded crime tip to the FBI and other agencies does not go unnoticed.

It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.

And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '

THEY WILL COME.


And you...you just visualize a cage in a zoo with a monkey in it. Puts things in perspective doesnt it.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2910 - 2014-03-26 15:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
False.

True.

Two can play this meaningless game. You can also choose to write down a coherent response anytime you'd like.

Edit: Well thanks for editing your post later, but this thread moves too quickly..

/蘭

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2911 - 2014-03-26 15:34:35 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Some of you are disgusting human beings, especially those either advocating or condoning physical violence.

The use of loaded words such as torture and a term for sexual molestation, that is filtered by the swear filter, to describe something, that while fairly deplorable, is within the realms of the rules (AFAIK) is inappropriate. To the people doing so I say get some perspective, better yet talk to a victim of torture or sexual assault and tell them that losing your internet spaceship pixels is the equivalent to what they've experienced, I'm sure you'll find them sympatheticRoll

You are indulging in a populist witch hunt, and are being carried by the mass hysteria that comes with such a hunt.

War Kittens forum signature would seem to apply to some of you, it reads thus:

"I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all."

TL;DR You're acting like a mob intent on vigilante justice. Grow the hell up, you're meant to be adults, stop acting like petulant little shites.


*apologies War Kitten for using your sig in a thread such as this, it is somewhat appropriate though*

edit ~ Ripard Teg should change his name to Matthew Hopkins, he's painted himself as the Witchfinder General.


I'm quoting you because of awesome.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Salvos Rhoska
#2912 - 2014-03-26 15:34:43 UTC
Mikey Aivo wrote:
When someone is recording in teamspeak theres a red dot to the right of their name

A red light on a camera does not mean you have consented to being filmed.

Mikey Aivo wrote:
Also when you start recording the clinet say user has started recording.

That it starts recording does not mean you have consented to the recording. He can proceed with it, but it has no legal value without the consent if you try to argue it as evidence, as Erotica1 tries to argue the TS recordings in his own defence against the EULA kicking his ass right out of EVE.

Mikey Aivo wrote:
End of the day though thays ero1's ts server he can do whatever he wants on there and anyone who decides to join him has done so on their own free will.

If someone is recording you without your consent, that is not free will.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#2913 - 2014-03-26 15:34:45 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Upde wrote:
Batelle wrote:
What "media pressure" are you referring to or expecting to appear? There is no shitstorm. There is only a threadnaught.



[quote=Upde]are any of those parts directed at the in game character or the person driving the character.

You see this is why the grey line of in game / outgame meta gaming has been crossed and why there is going to be more than this threadnought with regards to a shitstorm.


I'm sure a line of some kind was crossed somewhere. But that doesn't mean CCP should do anything about it. Also, if I play eve with someone regularly because they're in my corp, and I take a dislike to that person, I'm definitely disliking the person, not the character. Eve is a game played by persons. We as RL people are literally game content.


I beg to differ if CCP think this is bringing them as a company and their product into disrepute they will do something. It is comparable to the fanfest incident because it is another public rinsing of some "dirty EVE laundry" which likely won't paint the kind of public picture CCP want for themselves.

Its likely that it will run out of legs, but it only takes for a liberal do gooder journo to make this rage out of control if it gets picked up and that is something we would all be naive to dsicount based on the fact it has been published outside of these forums in other mainstream channels.
Drakast
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2914 - 2014-03-26 15:35:22 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Drakast wrote:
144 pages later and ive just proved to myself i will m*sturbate to anything.

if i told you i was psychotic, deranged and incarcerated for more than 20 years, for terrible crimes against society and i play this game every day from my jail cell, are you all going to shout and moan til i get banned? or does it already say somewhere that prisoners are not allowed to play eve?

there is a line to be drawn and its down to you lot to draw it. if you think ero deserves punishment then go out and form up a hell camp, band together and make his eve life short and pain filled

stop asking ccp to nanny you anymore than it has to. we live in the sandbox, if you dont like whats going on sort it out yourselves.

ero went too far (from what ive seen on this monster thread) sort him out. simple.

end of thread



I've worked alongside a lot of ex-cons and to bring ex-cons into this would be off the mark. The reason why I state that is because every ex-con I ever spoke to about their sentence pretty much said the same thing, to paraphrase "I know what I was doing when I did it and when I got caught I knew where I was going".

I have yet to see that kind of honesty from the Bonus Room Fetishists.



there are no ex cons from bar L
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#2915 - 2014-03-26 15:35:37 UTC
Oooh. This is one sick puppy. The Narcissism is palatable. Funny thing about psychotics. They have no clue they're...right. The "friends"? They could be cops. "I see, are you working for CCP...?" Nice.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Salvos Rhoska
#2916 - 2014-03-26 15:36:16 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
He consents to both.

Please explain to me EXACTLY how you come to this conclusion.

Be as specific as possible.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2917 - 2014-03-26 15:37:14 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
...



Its OK buddy. We understand.

But do not worry, a properly worded crime tip to the FBI and other agencies does not go unnoticed.

It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.

And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '

THEY WILL COME.


And you...you just visualize a cage in a zoo with a monkey in it. Puts things in perspective doesnt it.


You really are scary.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Big Lynx
#2918 - 2014-03-26 15:38:14 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
I have been playing this game for many many years now, and have never really been comfortable with the whole scamming thing. I think it spoils the game and actually drives people away. Scamming as become so prevalent in Eve its over taken the good aspects of it. Look at jita every single post in chat is a scam.

I dont like the fact that goonswarm do this constantly to a point its part of their culture, and sometimes the way they do it is a little creepy and weird and wrong.

But this is a whole new level, and its just not about a scam, its cyber bullying, torture at is very worse. I am sure this is certainly not the first case of this and its happening to others by other eve players.

You can hear from the start where this was going, and Erotica1 sounds really creepy tbh. They carried on for 2 hours, even when they knew the guy was getting upset, this is when you stop. Actually it should of never started.

This is for me the real darkside of eve, and where scamming takes it past gameplay. I have never played or seen a game that allows this to happen, or even breeds that type of person. The very idea of scamming has created these people, and CCP certainly has to take brunt of the blame for this as they endorse this type of behavior, but its gone a a step too far. as stated I am sure there are many Erotica1s lurking about.

This is just not scamming, its parasidic and morally wrong. Personally i would of called the police and given them the recording as people are now getting prosecuted for this type of thing. What gets me most is that there have been a few cases on twitter etc where people have committed suicide because of people like this. What if this guy did?

CCP has a duty just like twitter and others to protect its users.

However being a veteran player of this game, even after the time an investment i have made, every moral fibre in me is twitching. I am now seriously thinking do i want to pay, play or be a part of this game, ccp and its community if this is something that is happening to people. I certainly do not want to be associated with an organisation or game that endorses such actions and game play anymore.



+1
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#2919 - 2014-03-26 15:39:53 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
...



Its OK buddy. We understand.

But do not worry, a properly worded crime tip to the FBI and other agencies does not go unnoticed.

It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.

And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '

THEY WILL COME.


And you...you just visualize a cage in a zoo with a monkey in it. Puts things in perspective doesnt it.


I think you lost credibility with this one. I seriously doubt the FBI are going to get out of bed for this. The likely outcome here is that CCP take a public hosing, E1 et al. take an EVE ass reaming i.e permaban / account loss etc, the "contestant" takes a 30 day for inciting racial hatred.................
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#2920 - 2014-03-26 15:40:11 UTC
The Lynch Mob is standing in the street holding up a rope, armed and angry, what you going to do CCP?

Senex Legio