These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Jester Trek Latest Blog

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2801 - 2014-03-26 14:25:50 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There might be a recording somewhere of someone doing something potentially illegal on a teamspeak server somewhere - prove me wrong
That sure is a compelling argument.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Salvos Rhoska
#2802 - 2014-03-26 14:26:00 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Because there's an endless supply of fully grown Muppets willing to hand over their dignity.

No doubt! But I meant on the part of the listeners.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#2803 - 2014-03-26 14:26:04 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:

What about when they say, actually, this contest is now a dance marathon and you have to stay here for the next 12 hours. You can leave at any time. There is a difference to what people volunteer to do and what they're forced into doing, by ransom or coercion.


I would say that the person can still leave at any time, and thus by definition is not being subjected to torture. And you are on very shaky ground talking about "forcing" and "ransom" in relation to Teamspeak and space money.

Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
The internet is full of people volunteering to do stupid debasing things, many of which are pretty funny. Not so many occasions where somebody is goaded or manipulated into doing those things. Then its less funny.


Less funny != torture.


torture / ransom / forcing are not even relevant words, they never were and never will be in this case. However you bet your arse that when it gets written up in the media those words will be there and then there will be hell to pay. The outside world will look on this and treat it in exactly the same way as those people that smack talk people on face book after their friend has died. The outside people cannot differentiate between those 2 cases.

That leaves CCP between a rock and a hard place. I woudl think this whole debacle boils down to a damage limitation exercise for CCP and a media management / community management exercise. CCP are now left with the unenviable task of having to show their hand on this one. There is no way they can sweep this one under the carpet. They will no doubt have to answer some direct questions regarding if they support this kind of meta gaming or not and then stand by their decision and take what ever action is needed to support their stance. In this case the "if we do nothing it will blow over" option has been nuked, CCP will have to come down on one side of the fence of the other due to the amount of publicity this seems to be raking up outside of these forums and the game.
Salvos Rhoska
#2804 - 2014-03-26 14:27:22 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There might be a recording somewhere of someone doing something potentially illegal on a teamspeak server somewhere - prove me wrong
That sure is a compelling argument.


It is compelling.

I know you like to think that EVE is anonymous, and that all scamming is allowed in all its forms, but be careful you do not lose distinction on where EVE ends and the real world begins.

The line is there, and crossing it has immediate and serious legal repercussions.
Its not a joking matter.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2805 - 2014-03-26 14:28:42 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
No doubt! But I meant on the part of the listeners.
The same reason people listen to ventrilo harassment or prank calls or this - amusing overreactions to silly things.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#2806 - 2014-03-26 14:29:33 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Chribba wrote:

One difference between your young(tm) type bullying and current online(tm) type bullying, is that it's way way way harder to actually do something about it. Classic face to face bullying, you could try fight back by punching some sense into someone. It's much harder to smack someone in the face when they're anonymous behind a screen in a different country and can keep on doing stuff. So I wouldn't call it fair to compare the two types as if they were equal. But I fully understand your point.


That is definitely a particularly insidious aspect of cyberbullying, however if you want to call what's happening in the bonus room "cyberbullying," then that aspect is not at play in this situation, because as far as we know, erotica1 does not harass "clients" after the bonus round has ended.

You are correct, my post was meant in a more general way of online harassment we see today (on various places around the web), since the means to combat online harassment is far different from face-to-face.

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2807 - 2014-03-26 14:29:36 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:

What about when they say, actually, this contest is now a dance marathon and you have to stay here for the next 12 hours. You can leave at any time. There is a difference to what people volunteer to do and what they're forced into doing, by ransom or coercion.


I would say that the person can still leave at any time, and thus by definition is not being subjected to torture. Were the casino to be sued, it would be sued for duplicitous business practices not for torture. CCP has made their position very clear on duplicitous business practices in Eve.

And you are on very shaky ground talking about "forcing" and "ransom" in relation to Teamspeak and space money.

Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
The internet is full of people volunteering to do stupid debasing things, many of which are pretty funny. Not so many occasions where somebody is goaded or manipulated into doing those things. Then its less funny.


Less funny != torture.


Agreed. I never mentioned torture. (I agree that people throwing around "torture" are using hyperbole)

And I did actually mean to put inverted commas around "forced" in this context.

However, I believe there is a ransom to talk about here (the seizing of space assets) which I have advocated can be considered real for the purposes of the emotional effect they can have on their owner.

Less Funny does not equal torture, you're right, but manipulating people into humiliating things != acceptable.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2808 - 2014-03-26 14:29:49 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Because there's an endless supply of fully grown Muppets willing to hand over their dignity.

No doubt! But I meant on the part of the listeners.

Have you seen network television at any point since the 80s

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2809 - 2014-03-26 14:30:21 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I know you like to think that EVE is anonymous, and that all scamming is allowed in all its forms, but be careful you do not lose distinction on where EVE ends and the real world begins.

The line is there, and crossing it has immediate and serious legal repercussions.
The line is there and crossing it makes it immediately irrelevant to EVE online.

If you hold that the TS sessions are external to EVE (as I do), then this entire kerfuffle amounts to "this guy does things I don't like outside EVE so ban him". All that happened in game was a guy gave his stuff away.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Serenity Lifebringer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2810 - 2014-03-26 14:30:26 UTC
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:


If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.


The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important.


This 137 page thread and multiple news articles disagree.


288. Thats the number of people participating in this thread last I looked at the stats. That's not even a majority of the Eve players logged into Eve right now.



So....Are you Suggesting that when we all log into the game we should go system to system and post this thread into local for ALL to seeQuestionTwisted

***Presses CTRL -C, sets Autopilot, prepares to press CTRL-V while waiting for the universe to rage and burnTwistedTwistedTwisted



That would be a disaster. The forums would crash.
Salvos Rhoska
#2811 - 2014-03-26 14:31:29 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
No doubt! But I meant on the part of the listeners.
The same reason people listen to ventrilo harassment or prank calls or this - amusing overreactions to silly things.


An honest answer with no duplicity.

Much appreciated.

I dont mean it to reflect on you personally, but I think though some recordings of Bonus Room may be amusing for everyone involved, including the "client", I have a hard time believing that it is very common. Probably more like very uncommon, and mostly it is more like listening to someone urged to anger or sadness.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2812 - 2014-03-26 14:31:54 UTC
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
seizing of space assets
You mean the donation of space assets.

'Please contract me all your stuff' is not exactly a seizure.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2813 - 2014-03-26 14:32:23 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Can you guarantee that in every one the participant was PROPERLY and LEGALLY informed and asked for consent to be recorded, and for the distribution of the recordings? Can you?


why would you even ask such a completely inane question?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2814 - 2014-03-26 14:33:39 UTC
While I find this distasteful, this is a non issue.

The question kept being asked "What would your mother or grandmother say if they heard this recording"?

That's easy.

They would simply ask why the man was complying with those ridiculous requests, and why he didn't simply say no and leave.

This entire conversation should begin and end with that simple question.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Salvos Rhoska
#2815 - 2014-03-26 14:33:43 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
All that happened in game was a guy gave his stuff away.

And what happened outside of the game constitutes intentional infliction of emotional distress.

You see, what you need to understand, is that TS is not a "free" environment devoid of laws or the norms of the world.

They apply to you there, just as they do everywhere else.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Big Lynx
#2816 - 2014-03-26 14:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Big Lynx
Here is another scam recorded:

1.) ruined player's eve carreer

2.)showed him up before his wife and kids

3.) made audio recording public, although the victim DID NOT give permission

Erotica in action

Erotica, what the heck is wrong with you?
Salvos Rhoska
#2817 - 2014-03-26 14:34:35 UTC
Batelle wrote:
why would you even ask such a completely inane question?

If he cannot, then it is possible that some persons rights have been violated in the Bonus Room activity.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Mikey Aivo
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#2818 - 2014-03-26 14:35:17 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
All that happened in game was a guy gave his stuff away.

And what happened outside of the game constitutes intentional infliction of emotional distress.

You see, what you need to understand, is that TS is not a "free" environment devoid of laws or the norms of the world.

They apply to you there, just as they do everywhere else.




I am mikey aivo no laws apply to me
Salvos Rhoska
#2819 - 2014-03-26 14:35:34 UTC
Big Lynx wrote:
---

Heh, the "winners" are all fakes.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2820 - 2014-03-26 14:36:35 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I dont mean it to reflect on you personally, but I think though some recordings of Bonus Room may be amusing for everyone involved, including the "client", I have a hard time believing that it is very common. Probably more like very uncommon, and mostly it is more like listening to someone urged to anger or sadness.
I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, when someone is upset over a trivial situation they are completely responsible for themselves, I feel very little sympathy, so it doesn't really affect the humour value for me.

If, say, Erotica 1 was hacking accounts and taking stuff and holding the bonus round in order for the victims to get their stuff back, I'd be as much up in arms about what a terrible thing it is to do as anyone else. But when it's a racist, homophobic 'plane controller' who hands over his stuff to the most infamous 'scammer' in EVE history and rages intensely when said scammer won't give it back? Not so much.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment