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Asia Leigh
Kenshin Industries.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#2761 - 2014-03-26 14:01:12 UTC
LordOfDespair wrote:
Everybody needs to stop assuming that the victims are perfectly healthy minded individuals.

"You deserve it if you fall for THAT scam."

"He could of left whenever he wanted!"

You have no idea who that person is, or what their life is right now.

He could be impaired someway mentally or not in the right state of mind. Does that make it right to abuse them for personal pleasure?


absolutely not

But lets be serious here. EVE isn't exactly WoW when it comes to the learning curve of the game. I really think that someone who was impaired enough to not have any idea what is going on around him would have an extremely hard time picking this game up, and would likely leave it out of frustration. Also he claims to be an air traffic controller... Not a job you get if your mentally deficient.

Lets face it, he got greedy, gambled and lost. That simple.

Does that make it right for erotica to treat a person in this matter regardless of circumstance? Absolutely not!!! Just dont expect anything to happen as this happened a while ago and was known to both CCP and the community long before this blog post or this thread.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Katkon Darnok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2762 - 2014-03-26 14:01:22 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:


If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.


The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important.


This 137 page thread and multiple news articles disagree.


288. Thats the number of people participating in this thread last I looked at the stats. That's not even a majority of the Eve players logged into Eve right now.


288 = statistical significance (actually, >32 makes for a statistically significant sample size). So, this thread is probably very representative of how the community feels - at least those that KNOW about the issue. And, at the risk of insulting your intelligence (not my intent), pls do bear in mind that most EVE players are probably not active on the forums, and probably only a small number of those that are have seen or are following this thread.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2763 - 2014-03-26 14:02:34 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Literally the first thing said in the recording is that it is being recorded.


I must of missed that during buffering my bad

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
LordOfDespair
Deep Dark Fantasy.
#2764 - 2014-03-26 14:03:25 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

When did the world decide to create pansies out of everyone?

With this new term 'cyber bullying' being thrown around, I really am shaking my head here. When I was young(tm), people dealt with 'bullies' as a normal part of coming of age, on their own. People dealt with all life challenges in fact, without having to codify it with a marketing term to convert individual fail into victimization...

You want to know why some young people are killing themselves due to 'bullying'?

It's because they were fricken bubble wrapped since birth and grew up without having to develop any adversity management skills, so when the first 'big' challenge did come their way their brains exploded. ****, Johnny didn't invite me to the dance, I will slit my wrists in the tub...

Now I am not talking about putting all kids in the Agoge of Sparta, but what I am asking is aren't these well-intentioned idiots who coin pansification terms like 'cyber bullying' just making more life-neutered pussies?

tldr;
HTFU


Here is the message your post is giving:

"People dealt with bullies for a long time so its okay."

"People with emotional issues are just pussies and need to HTFU."

"If a person commits suicide because they were bubble wrapped as a kid."


Are you okay in the head?
All I see is victim blaming trying to justify the actions of some sad and pathetic individuals.

So it is their fault that a person is the victim of abuse, but the person giving the abuse has no fault whatsoever?

This is the most irrational post I've ever seen.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#2765 - 2014-03-26 14:04:04 UTC
Katkon Darnok wrote:
288 = statistical significance (actually, >32 makes for a statistically significant sample size).
Did you just talk about the statistical significance of a self-selecting group? Oh my.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2766 - 2014-03-26 14:04:32 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

When did the world decide to create pansies out of everyone?

With this new term 'cyber bullying' being thrown around, I really am shaking my head here. When I was young(tm), people dealt with 'bullies' as a normal part of coming of age, on their own. People dealt with all life challenges in fact, without having to codify it with a marketing term to convert individual fail into victimization...

You want to know why some young people are killing themselves due to 'bullying'?

It's because they were fricken bubble wrapped since birth and grew up without having to develop any adversity management skills, so when the first 'big' challenge did come their way their brains exploded. ****, Johnny didn't invite me to the dance, I will slit my wrists in the tub...

Now I am not talking about putting all kids in the Agoge of Sparta, but what I am asking is aren't these well-intentioned idiots who coin pansification terms like 'cyber bullying' just making more life-neutered pussies?

tldr;
HTFU

One difference between your young(tm) type bullying and current online(tm) type bullying, is that it's way way way harder to actually do something about it. Classic face to face bullying, you could try fight back by punching some sense into someone. It's much harder to smack someone in the face when they're anonymous behind a screen in a different country and can keep on doing stuff. So I wouldn't call it fair to compare the two types as if they were equal. But I fully understand your point.

/c


I feel a distinction needs to be made, however, between this electronic "bullying" and actual physical violence and intimidation.

That being, that the internet is an entirely voluntary participatory media.

Going to school basically isn't. You can't use a mouseclick to get rid of having to go to school, or of having to live on your street. You do, however, have all the power when you are at your own computer to make it literally disappear with a hand motion.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#2767 - 2014-03-26 14:05:27 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

When did the world decide to create pansies out of everyone?

With this new term 'cyber bullying' being thrown around, I really am shaking my head here. When I was young(tm), people dealt with 'bullies' as a normal part of coming of age, on their own. People dealt with all life challenges in fact, without having to codify it with a marketing term to convert individual fail into victimization...

You want to know why some young people are killing themselves due to 'bullying'?

It's because they were fricken bubble wrapped since birth and grew up without having to develop any adversity management skills, so when the first 'big' challenge did come their way their brains exploded. ****, Johnny didn't invite me to the dance, I will slit my wrists in the tub...

Now I am not talking about putting all kids in the Agoge of Sparta, but what I am asking is aren't these well-intentioned idiots who coin pansification terms like 'cyber bullying' just making more life-neutered pussies?

tldr;
HTFU


Bullying was manageable indeed, until Social Media came along and offered all new opportunities for incidents and "pranks" to be displayed worldwide, by anyone, anywhere.

It's become a huge problem.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Katkon Darnok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2768 - 2014-03-26 14:06:48 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

When did the world decide to create pansies out of everyone?

With this new term 'cyber bullying' being thrown around, I really am shaking my head here. When I was young(tm), people dealt with 'bullies' as a normal part of coming of age, on their own. People dealt with all life challenges in fact, without having to codify it with a marketing term to convert individual fail into victimization...

You want to know why some young people are killing themselves due to 'bullying'?

It's because they were fricken bubble wrapped since birth and grew up without having to develop any adversity management skills, so when the first 'big' challenge did come their way their brains exploded. ****, Johnny didn't invite me to the dance, I will slit my wrists in the tub...

Now I am not talking about putting all kids in the Agoge of Sparta, but what I am asking is aren't these well-intentioned idiots who coin pansification terms like 'cyber bullying' just making more life-neutered pussies?

tldr;
HTFU


As a parent I'm shaking my head at your comments in return. So you're simply proposing that all well-adjusted citizens who are part of a real or virtual community simply stand idly by while others are scammed, punched, made fun of and otherwise hurt emotionally or physically? Wow, just wow.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2769 - 2014-03-26 14:06:50 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:


If the majority of the players and nonplayers think this behavior is unacceptable, your argument is next to worthless.


The majority of eve players have hardly even heard of the forums let along this latest Erotica thing. They just don't care because its just not all that important.


This 137 page thread and multiple news articles disagree.


288. Thats the number of people participating in this thread last I looked at the stats. That's not even a majority of the Eve players logged into Eve right now.



So....Are you Suggesting that when we all log into the game we should go system to system and post this thread into local for ALL to seeQuestionTwisted

***Presses CTRL -C, sets Autopilot, prepares to press CTRL-V while waiting for the universe to rage and burnTwistedTwistedTwisted

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Salvos Rhoska
#2770 - 2014-03-26 14:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Crumplecorn wrote:
Prie Mary wrote:
As far as im aware bonus room makes no attempt to let the victim know they are being recorded at the start.
Literally the first thing said in the recording is that it is being recorded.


1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said.
2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said.
3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded.
4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder.
5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording.

All of these are things the bunglers who designed this (in their minds extremely clever HURR DURRR) system of supposed safeguards against their activities being investigated by CCP or other authorities.

They are, ofc, completely inadequate, laughable and have no legal weight whatsoever.

Prie Mary wrote:
I must of missed that during buffering my bad

As no doubt have the overwhelming majority of Bonus Round participants also missed it, or otherwise been unaware of it.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2771 - 2014-03-26 14:07:35 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
If The House had already taken all his money and fed it into the slot machine, and told him the only way he was getting it back would be to win the costume contest dressed as a chicken singing Waltzing Matilda whilst streaming live to the internet, then it would be more accurate.


I loled IRL. Quite so, and were our contestant to willingly suit up and start flapping, we would not say he was being subjected to torture. We would say that he was a consenting adult making a choice, and possibly even having fun doing it.


What about when they say, actually, this contest is now a dance marathon and you have to stay here for the next 12 hours. You can leave at any time.

There is a difference to what people volunteer to do and what they're forced into doing, by ransom or coercion.

The internet is full of people volunteering to do stupid debasing things, many of which are pretty funny. Not so many occasions where somebody is goaded or manipulated into doing those things. Then its less funny.


Druthlen wrote:
You seem to forget there is a hostage in all of this. The persons online assets. Which are forfeited if he doesn't play along. He believes at least for a time he can recover his stuff if he goes along with the humiliating hazing like activities.


It's interesting people have used the term 'hazing.' Hazing is officially sanctioned in every organisation I can think of as it was getting out of hand. definition: involves inflicting pain or encouraging others to engage in illegal, harmful, demeaning or dangerous acts. In employment, education, the military etc Hazing is explicitly singled out as inexcusable for illegal, discriminatory or demeaning behaviour.

I think that EVE meta-scamming is in danger of going too far in a similar parallel and although I am well aware we are talking about not-real goods in a not-real world, taking that on to Teamspeak, websites and the wider internet for the express purpose of providing 'entertainment' at the suffering of another person is shameful.

I'm not saying that what happened here is of the same seriousness of some of the real life incidents like Danny Chen, but that CCP should clarify that scamming and despicable behaviour is only acceptable within the confines of the game.
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2772 - 2014-03-26 14:07:36 UTC
Upde wrote:
Capt Starfox wrote:
[quote=Krants]

Because you can't handle Eve Online and need CCP to hold your hand??

You fail so miserably to see that all participants chose to stay and in no way were forced against their will to continue.


That is irrelevant now. This whole situation will get eaten up by media channels and they will farm CCP tears and feast upon them. Eve hasn't exactly got the greatest rep in the gaming media circles and shitstorms like this are what shitposting journo's love. They will selectively publish the bits that support their "EVE is full of sociopaths" and push it out into the public domain. Then we all get reamed if CCP are then forced into a position where they have to make a public statement and effect change to game mechanics.

As a community we should probably do a better job of self policing so this kind of media tear harvesting doesn't happen and ensure we clean our own house up rather than it being a forced issue. Surely that would be better for us as gamers and the health of EVE ?


I suppose you are right, yes, but it's too late now and we have to debate and fight over it like crazy people Blink

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
LordOfDespair
Deep Dark Fantasy.
#2773 - 2014-03-26 14:08:02 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:
You have no idea who that person is, or what their life is right now.
He could be impaired someway mentally or not in the right state of mind. Does that make it right to abuse them for personal pleasure?


Quite right, you have no idea of these things in an MMO. They are a capsuleer name, an alliance ticker, a shiptype. They are a mark, a target. The person you undercut with your market trade may have been on their last ISK and suffering manic depression. Who knows what your callous undercut could trigger? You argue that people are responsible for the jilted lover screaming "if you don't take me back I'll kill myself". People are not responsible for the reactions of others.

If you want to argue for compassion, I'm right behind you. But that is a different thing. Some people just don't have the intellectual or emotional maturity to interact with other humans in a competitive environment and the rest of us are not responsible for their reactions.

Look at the login screen: Online Interactions Not Rated By The ESRB.


Have you even listened to the 2 hour long recording?

How are you going to compare that to .01 isk wars on the market and ingame PVP?

That is ridiculous.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2774 - 2014-03-26 14:08:08 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Bullying was manageable indeed, until Social Media came along and offered all new opportunities for incidents and "pranks" to be displayed worldwide, by anyone, anywhere.

It's become a huge problem.


I just rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself a headache. That might actually be the perfect example of a first world problem.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Salvos Rhoska
#2775 - 2014-03-26 14:10:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I just rolled my eyes so hard I gave myself a headache..

Oh. A young one, who does not remember the days before teh internets.

Electronic and digital media offers worlds of possibility to bullies undreamed of back in my youth.

(With Erotica1 as a shining example and case in point on that regard).

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2776 - 2014-03-26 14:11:36 UTC
I don't get it why people who are clearly not laywers pretend to be laywers, as if that was something good. Here in germany we have a saying:

He is a laywer and in all other aspects also of fairly limited intelligence.

;-)
LordOfDespair
Deep Dark Fantasy.
#2777 - 2014-03-26 14:12:18 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
LordOfDespair wrote:
Everybody needs to stop assuming that the victims are perfectly healthy minded individuals.

"You deserve it if you fall for THAT scam."

"He could of left whenever he wanted!"

You have no idea who that person is, or what their life is right now.

He could be impaired someway mentally or not in the right state of mind. Does that make it right to abuse them for personal pleasure?


absolutely not

But lets be serious here. EVE isn't exactly WoW when it comes to the learning curve of the game. I really think that someone who was impaired enough to not have any idea what is going on around him would have an extremely hard time picking this game up, and would likely leave it out of frustration. Also he claims to be an air traffic controller... Not a job you get if your mentally deficient.

Lets face it, he got greedy, gambled and lost. That simple.

Does that make it right for erotica to treat a person in this matter regardless of circumstance? Absolutely not!!! Just dont expect anything to happen as this happened a while ago and was known to both CCP and the community long before this blog post or this thread.



You are still thinking that we are arguing that the scam is the problem here.

Nobody cares that he got scammed, it happens everyday and is apart of the game.

And saying that "EvE isn't WoW" is only an argument towards the scam, not the 2 hours of abuse.

And if you ask me, the victim didn't sound like a normal person. To me it was obvious they were just abusing either an impaired individual or something who was going through a really bad time in their life.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2778 - 2014-03-26 14:12:40 UTC
There are real people going to sleep at night with empty bellies and no roof over their heads, but God forbid you white knight freaks of nature doing anything about that, because:

"OH NOES!! Betsy said my braces were ugly, and Veronica heard her and Veronica's on the cheerleading squad! I'll never show my face outside the house again!"

Is apparently so much more important.

Go help the genuinely less fortunate, if you heart bleeds so much. Get with the freaking program.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Galdrak
Interplanetary Trade Federation
#2779 - 2014-03-26 14:12:50 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
This thread is definitely proof highsec needs to be nerfed.


i keep seeing you post that. i dont get what you mean, to me it seems totally off topic and a pointless post.

maybe you could open a new thread on why you think this thread is a reason to nerf hisec.
Mellisa Jade
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2780 - 2014-03-26 14:13:14 UTC
This whole thing is Staged if you cant see that your as blind and stupid as the guy pretending to get scammed.

_'Time is to eternity, as the mind is to what surrounds us.' _