EVE General Discussion

Lucretia, I liked your post, but I'd like to respond to a few points in it.


The service of ISK doubling itself is pretty doubtful in terms of fidelity. You can't argue that anyone should trust what happens in an ISK doubling transaction. Someone is offering to double your cash. Never mind how ludicrous that sounds in real life, in EVE it is a big, big gamble.

In this case, Sohkar is crossing that boundary. You argue that ISK is not just funny money, it has emotional and psychological value. I agree with that. But this ISK which has emotional value WAS VOLUNTARILY HANDED OVER. This handing over was not under duress, it was motivated purely by greed. You might argue that addiction to gambling may have played a part, and maybe Erotica 1 should be held to the same standards as a casino, but I think that's a different debate altogether.

I'm going to repeat this, since some folks are missing this point: Jumping into teamspeak is a direct result of conscious, voluntary actions on Sohkar's part.


Inside the game, even with logs, CCP would never refund Sohkar of a single ISK. In fact, the act of scamming inside the game would be backed up by the current rules. Why does it matter if it's "external communications"? Sohkar has no extra (or any missing) shield from the consequences.


And this is my primary objection against the witch hunt in this thread. Erotica 1 isn't a particularly nice person. He is shrewd, manipulative, and compelling. But the fact that you may not like him, or that his methods are particularly effective against some people does not change these facts:
1. Sohkar initiated the situation by sending ISK a *second* time
2. Sohkar chose to be in the voice comms by pressing the call button on Teamspeak
3. He could at any point accept his ISK losses. You cannot argue that ISK has MORE emotional and psychological value than real world things. Even Sohkar might put more value in the relationship he has with his wife and kids than ISK in the game. If so, he should MORE EASILY be able to accept an ISK loss than breaking his own physical furniture. If he is not, I will argue that this is a psychological condition that you can't blame Erotica 1 for exacerbating. The guy has his priorities wrong.


I will argue here that Jester himself has crossed into an unacceptable line of behavior. This incident may just be a proverbial dirty laundry of EVE's. Jester is doing the game and the community a disservice by throwing it out there for everyone to see, without actually providing an intellectual analysis of what happened. This is for the community to figure out and for CCP to govern, not for Jester to polish his own blog hits or push his own CSM agenda forward.

About Erotica 1 crossing the line. Putting massive amounts of ISK at stake, using brutal psychological tactics to keep Sohkar engaged. I think the incident crosses the line for many people not because it is particularly heinous, but because it is particularly effective.

Did what happen constitute as heinous?
Yes because:
-Sohkar is asked to read passages
-Sohkar is asked to sing
-Sohkar is asked to stay awake for 2 hours
-Sohkar is laughed at

Or, is it telling that:
-Sohkar starts spewing racist and homophobic insults? Both of these are supremely (and specifically) offensive to me.
-Sohkar sounded like he is destroying physical property
-Sohkar threatened Erotica 1 on TS

I think we are losing perspective if we consider this prank to be heinous. We truly have no sense of what actual crimes and actual manipulation of people is if we think this incident has any interesting criminal or moral content in it.

I don't curse that often, but.. is it ****** up what was done to Sohkar? Absolutely.

Is it morally reprehensible, or criminally actionable, or involves manipulation in any significant psychological or physical way?

You've got to be kidding me if you say yes. Go listen to a Jerky Boys tape if you haven't been out and about.

/蘭

What the sidetrack?
Wow, was that out of left field.

I have a reasonable amount of faith that Remiel isn't that kind of person, nor is anyone else, here.
ONCE AGAIN.... Erotica 1's contestants are gamblers. When you gamble and lose, you have nobody to blame but yourself.
That is not "victim blame", that's "placing the blame where it belongs", and it has NOTHING to do with ****.

I'd watch how you toss that word around here, mate. Some of these players might be actual **** victims, and might not take too kindly to your flippance. I sure hope nobody reports you for saying something that hideously offensive.

You did not answer, though it was respectfully presented 4 times.

That is disrespectful of the person respectfully asking it.

Don't think that goes unnoticed.

You really can't play the victim card when your actions are aimed at seeking those hateful comments. That's what your goal seems to be, to garner hate and anger from your victims... Don't like it, then stop doing it.

In my country. A **** can consenual and still be **** with jail time attached. I bet its the same in yours too.

No, if the actions had been confined to in game scamming, you might be correct in blaming the victim for being a fool.

But when these actions go so far afoul of any kind of human decency, and he has demonstrated time and again his willingness to cross them... No we are dealing with the same kind of 'blame the victim' mentality that is personified by people without morals.

I have never understood this forum alt thing. Aside for obviously troll types, what difference does it make which character a person posts with, the opinion is still the same. Just someone decided they wanted more war targets based on forum posts so started this whole forum alt nonsense. As for what a good person is, it sure is not easy to find on Eve forums. I realize ingame it is easy to avoid people, I just have a hard time giving money to a company that condones abusive behaviour when taken to extremes. This HTFU stuff might appeal to some, but not me and not on the forum.

I'm going to do something I knew I should have done hours ago... get a couple hours of sleep. Don't worry, I'll bookmark my place.

ugh, more veiled threats.

Where is it?

You have not answered it.

If you claim otherwise you would seem to be having an imaginary conversation.
Nowhere here in this thread have you answered it.
Believe me, I know. I've been here from the start.