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Dev blog: Ship Painting Pilot Program

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#521 - 2014-03-07 22:08:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Carmen Electra wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
I am thrilled to hear that CCP wants us to be able to customize our ships. I understand that this is something of a first-step, and not representative of what the final product will look like.

That said, I thought we all agreed that AUR need to be given a swift death? Why are they being dredged up for use in painting ships?

Why does ship painting need to have a cost associated with it? I really like how we can customize our characters at will, for me it is one of the best features in EVE. I thought it was a foregone conclusion that painting our ships would be the exact same deal. Please don't introduce microtransactions here, just let us paint our ships as much and as often as we would like without charging for a paint job.

THEN
PAY
WITH
ISK

(and learn to read)

I'm seriously considering starting a running count of all the people who completely miss the point that they can also pay for these custom paint jobs using only ISK (and more ways to do so than one). However, I'm afraid that it would simply take too much time.


What? I don't want to pay with ISK either Shocked

I should have to pay ISK to buy ships and modules. I don't have to pay ISK to recustomize my portrait, and I shouldn't have to pay ISK/AUR to paint my ship.

When was the last time you got your car painted for free? Big smile

Paying for a new paint job for your ship makes perfect sense from any perspective.

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#522 - 2014-03-07 22:15:26 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Also, people wanting persistent schemes.. No. Eve is about Loss. You LOSE things when you die. Why would people just keep giving you free paint jobs? No, you want to fly one, you put it on the line.


Ok, then you lose your eyepatch and your nice white shirt the next time you get podded.

Why would you get new free clothes for every clone?

Many of us have said that since day one.

However, if that were done there would have to be a drastic reduction in price.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Hana Metesuree
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#523 - 2014-03-07 22:16:42 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
the LP concept would be interesting if you can implement it for the minor factions and corporations inside the empires.....i would totally grind the hell out of Khanid/Ammatar corporations.....also....Suukuvesta colors <3


I agree! I'd be very willing to grind lp to get some minor faction colours! I'd love to be officially a part of the Ammatar Fleet, but seeing as that is not going to happen any time soon, I would adore flying Ammatar colours on my ship! I think the LP skin idea is a very good idea for RP reasons and for people who simply love an obscure faction.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#524 - 2014-03-07 22:31:11 UTC
More data for the over-worked hamsters to process?

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Nicodemous
PATORian Guard
#525 - 2014-03-07 22:32:41 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Nicodemous wrote:
Re: getting around having 63 quadrillion new hull typeID's in the marketplace...


Read the dev blog: CCP quite clearly states that using multiple typeIDs is untenable in the long term, and that they are using that mechanism right now because it's a known quantity of work for testing the custom ship skin waters.


That was my point - as they don't want a bunch more typeID's, I've suggested a way around it.

I'd skipped reading the intervening 25 pages - but from having read some of the comments on the pages around my own post, it appears that there's been more than just myself saying to use a ship slot for the desired functionality.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#526 - 2014-03-07 22:33:34 UTC
I think a lot of people need to re-read the blog and remember that this method is not how they are proposing to handle ship skins long term. The unique ship ID's, etc. are only being done with reliable mechanics already in game to test the viability of the concept and to justify the development resources necessary to come up with a better system (such as the rig slot idea).

Stop criticizing the deployment method, it's temporary and being done for well explained reasons.

One other school of thought concerning the price point:

They could leave the prices roughly as they are for single ships, however if you purchase BPC's with larger number of runs the price increase could drop sharply. In other words while it might be a little expensive to just buy a paint job for one ship (compared to the cost of the ship itself), if you got a 10 run or 100 run BPC the actual price per ship could drop dramatically.

This would encourage people to actually make more than they are likely to use and sell the rest to recoup their funds. It would also make life easier for corps trying to create a corp identity in this manner by making a uniform fleet to sell/distribute to their corp members.

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Janden Rynd
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#527 - 2014-03-07 22:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Janden Rynd
Lors Dornick wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:

Better start small, see if people like things, examine things to improve, gather great ideas and then - if it is worth the time - create the full system.

Wut?

You actually learned something from Incarna? ;)


If that were true, then they would have learned:

1. Do not roll something out in an unfinished state; a small sample of what could be will never get the same reception as the finished product.

2. People generally don't like the NEX store, especially when it's used as a blatant cash grab offering items of disproportionate value to the cost.

Ranger 1 wrote:
Janden Rynd wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Also, people wanting persistent schemes.. No. Eve is about Loss. You LOSE things when you die. Why would people just keep giving you free paint jobs? No, you want to fly one, you put it on the line.


Ok, then you lose your eyepatch and your nice white shirt the next time you get podded.

Why would you get new free clothes for every clone?

Many of us have said that since day one.

However, if that were done there would have to be a drastic reduction in price.


Exactly my point; the prices on these are not appropriate for a consumable vanity item.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#528 - 2014-03-07 22:40:24 UTC
Nicodemous wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Nicodemous wrote:
Re: getting around having 63 quadrillion new hull typeID's in the marketplace...


Read the dev blog: CCP quite clearly states that using multiple typeIDs is untenable in the long term, and that they are using that mechanism right now because it's a known quantity of work for testing the custom ship skin waters.


That was my point - as they don't want a bunch more typeID's, I've suggested a way around it.

I'd skipped reading the intervening 25 pages - but from having read some of the comments on the pages around my own post, it appears that there's been more than just myself saying to use a ship slot for the desired functionality.

At the very least reading dev posts would have indicated that this had already been addressed to those posters as well as yourself. I get not reading the full 27 page thread, but with the ease of moving between dev posts that much can at least be expected.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#529 - 2014-03-07 22:49:36 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:

If that were true, then they would have learned:
...
2. People generally don't like the NEX store, especially when it's used as a blatant cash grab offering items of disproportionate value to the cost.

Ranger 1 wrote:
However, if that were done there would have to be a drastic reduction in price.


Exactly my point; the prices on these are not appropriate for a consumable vanity item.

That's pretty subjective. I find that even with the prospect of loss these skins are reasonably priced.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#530 - 2014-03-07 22:50:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
If that were true, then they would have learned:

1. Do not roll something out in an unfinished state; a small sample of what could be will never get the same reception as the finished product.

2. People generally don't like the NEX store, especially when it's used as a blatant cash grab offering items of disproportionate value to the cost.


1: Consider that rolling out untested new mechanics without a period of trial and feedback from the player base is EXACTLY what got them into trouble to begin with. Far better to have community involvement in this manner before they go too far down that path.

2: Pricing is one of the main points they want discussion on. And keep in mind you don't have to spend a penny to get as many paint jobs as you like, but the option is available to those that wish to cut to the chase and spend a few bucks instead. I would much, much prefer that if CCP decides its finally time to try and increase their revenue stream after 10+ years that they do it in a manner that is completely voluntary (and at the same time offers no game play advantage)... as opposed to the only other option of increasing everyone's subscription fee across the board.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Dreadful Bride
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#531 - 2014-03-07 22:51:06 UTC
I like the idea of ship skins and will be adding one of each to my collection.

The skins should be like rigs with slots for the skin and for the logo. With modified ships only available through the contract system that way it prevents the market being clogged up with custom ships.

For the logos have them like decorations that a CEO/Director can produce for a very small fee.

With the skins they shouldnt load by default only when someone looks at a the ship or shows info on it.

I like the idea of a paint booth with preselected areas that you can choose the colour of you can then pay your AUR and be provided with a paint scheme for the ship. With NPC corp colours and logos available through LP stores in general frig patterns that can be previewed before buying to be sure that it looks good.

I only made it 10 pages in so sorry if these ideas have been posted before.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#532 - 2014-03-07 22:57:05 UTC
Agreeing with many folk in the thread that NPC corps (large and small) should have as part of their loyalty point store their own custom paint schemes (and only be available there)... while more unique schemes are offered via the Nex store. Entire factions (pirate and otherwise) could have skins as well, offered in a number of ways.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Janden Rynd
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#533 - 2014-03-07 22:58:04 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Janden Rynd wrote:

If that were true, then they would have learned:
...
2. People generally don't like the NEX store, especially when it's used as a blatant cash grab offering items of disproportionate value to the cost.

Ranger 1 wrote:
However, if that were done there would have to be a drastic reduction in price.


Exactly my point; the prices on these are not appropriate for a consumable vanity item.

That's pretty subjective. I find that even with the prospect of loss these skins are reasonably priced.


I would consider spending more than just the cost of the ship itself just to paint it to be unreasonable.

Spending more than the ship plus fittings is beyond unreasonable.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#534 - 2014-03-07 23:04:44 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Janden Rynd wrote:

If that were true, then they would have learned:
...
2. People generally don't like the NEX store, especially when it's used as a blatant cash grab offering items of disproportionate value to the cost.

Ranger 1 wrote:
However, if that were done there would have to be a drastic reduction in price.


Exactly my point; the prices on these are not appropriate for a consumable vanity item.

That's pretty subjective. I find that even with the prospect of loss these skins are reasonably priced.


I would consider spending more than just the cost of the ship itself just to paint it to be unreasonable.

Spending more than the ship plus fittings is beyond unreasonable.

I kind of have to agree with this, although I realize CCP is trying to look at it as these ships will be in demand because they are somewhat collectable and unique.

Which is why i suggested that perhaps a single run skin could stay a bit pricey, but larger run BPC's only go up marginally from there. In other words the price per ship would go down dramatically for those that wish to make large numbers of them (for corp use or for resale), while those that wish to just get one and be done would pay a bit of a premium.

Either way, for frigates at least the price point needs to be rethought. Ideally CCP would make their money on volume, ensuring that ship skins become common place throughout the EVE universe.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#535 - 2014-03-07 23:06:39 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:

I would consider spending more than just the cost of the ship itself just to paint it to be unreasonable.

Spending more than the ship plus fittings is beyond unreasonable.
In the case of a frigate you are dealing with a rather low price point, so they would have to cost near nothing. In the case of a battleship, you are at a fraction of the hulls cost. either way it's a luxury. It's inherent in it's status as a cosmetic microtransaction that some will not find it worthwhile.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#536 - 2014-03-07 23:10:21 UTC
Skekr wrote:


It would be nice to have a manufacturing stamp of sorts a corp. logo that could be applied to hulls as well a kind if bragging rights that this was manufactured by a particular corp. does not need to be anything big and would probably not interfere with any custom paint job one would apply.
Or just something corp. could have on for fleet roams as a symbol of pride for that corp. I would be happy with ether or, as both may be too complicated or distracting in a paint scheme.

Skekr



This.... I would love to have custom paint jobs on the corp and alliance level. These should only be allowed to be created if a person is in that same corp/alliance, but once created it should be permanent....
Janden Rynd
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#537 - 2014-03-07 23:10:45 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
If that were true, then they would have learned:

1. Do not roll something out in an unfinished state; a small sample of what could be will never get the same reception as the finished product.

2. People generally don't like the NEX store, especially when it's used as a blatant cash grab offering items of disproportionate value to the cost.


1: Consider that rolling out untested new mechanics without a period of trial and feedback from the player base is EXACTLY what got them into trouble to begin with. Far better to have community involvement in this manner before they go too far down that path.


I get the idea of trial and feedback; that's what the test server is for.

The problem I see with the comparison to Incarna is that for Incarna, they rolled out a tiny portion of what the expansion could have been, and people were loudly upset. The anger was largely over the lack of content and the small scale of what had been hyped as a major expansion. Unfortunately, CCP misinterpreted the outrage to mean that "the players don't like WIS, so we won't develop it any further."

I fear that the same misrepresentation of data may take place with this little experiment. If players don't like the way this limited system is represented, whether because of the use of the NEX store, the mechanics of applying the skin change, the small selection of ships/skins, or the cost, how will CCP know the difference? Given their track record, they are just as likely to ignore the feedback and come to the conclusion that because their pilot program was unsuccessful, that people don't want customizeable ship skins.

Ranger 1 wrote:
2: Pricing is one of the main points they want discussion on. And keep in mind you don't have to spend a penny to get as many paint jobs as you like, but the option is available to those that wish to cut to the chase and spend a few bucks instead. I would much, much prefer that if CCP decides its finally time to try and increase their revenue stream after 10+ years that they do it in a manner that is completely voluntary (and at the same time offers no game play advantage)... as opposed to the only other option of increasing everyone's subscription fee across the board.


I really don't care what currency I'm using; whether it's ISK, Aurum, or PLEX. As I've said before, paying more for a paint job than the cost of the completely fitted ship is patently ridiculous. I've given suggestions for ways that they could still make this microtransaction based with options for steady revenue while justifying the cost, and if they were to adapt a model similar to that, I'd consider using it. But the costs presented in this pilot program are way over the top, and I'd rather CCP not get the idea taht we don't want these customizations just because their prices are too high.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2014-03-07 23:14:14 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:
I get the idea of trial and feedback; that's what the test server is for.
How does one test the attractiveness of MT based skins on the test server? I can see testing them mechanically, but then there's not much to test there since the current iteration does nothing that manufacturing doesn't already do.
Myxx
The Scope
#539 - 2014-03-07 23:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
I just bought 28 incursuses (incursii?). I don't approve of the use of aurum for this, but I do approve of the overall idea you want to go with. So, I'll support it... for now. The fact that it is lacking in a Domi hull paint scheme is a little disappointing, but I can be patient.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#540 - 2014-03-07 23:24:50 UTC
Altlama Hunskaya wrote:
I feel this is good idea and that it could really add something to the game. To me CCP role is to bring us the tools and not to do some painting job release set and to be frank what have been done for Rubicon 1.3 is far to be Art.

Prior to venture on this Hi Resolution Texture and Tessellation should be first done to the game. when it is done I feel that ship painting should be ART and not the use of a button and woow you got rendom collors apply on the ship it should be a new carreer in the game and not something done in 10 min for the fun.

I see it like the character customization but in better. With the great and powerfull tool provided you could do your job of painting for anyship and when it is done make it a BPO

When the BPO is release it meens that the game client have been update and that you can sell the BPO with a contract or start ME and PE or BPC ... or simply use it

in station like Repairshop you should be able to use the BPO or BPC to paint your ship. you can Paint again a ship anytime you want as long as you have a blueprint for it. I like the idea of seeing a fleet or squadron with the same beautiful custom paint with fleet logo, squadron logo, names...

In a close future in local chat you could read "see i did buy that really well known player paint for my ship this guy is an artist ..."

again it is not CCP role to burn time in doing painting. In a longer term orther things like the customs you own ... could also be painted.

Now the Woop! Woop!
yeah i know guys it is fun but frankly only 5 min. Then imagine all those ship doing Woop! Woop! in all new eden?? it will turn the game in an uggly way. rather than that childish thing you'd better do a real thing. The pirates have ships and know what they do and for the Pilots who wants to do Woop! Woop! when they have proven loyalty to concord they could be able to fly concord ship and patrol with them or do mission with them and take part in responding against pirates and we could have some sort of concord PVP rather that the proposed police lightning skin.

Well CCP it is hard to see your real intent with this but i do hope you read all the post in that topic.

Cheers.



CCP... listen to this guy. PLEASE!