Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm not even vouching for a "less safe" high-sec, i'm vouching for an "as dynamic as it can be while still being safe" high-sec. I feel some of the content is simply too easy and too profitable to warrant a new player choosing any path other than a high-sec mission/incursion runner. Sure if shooting at NPCs is your thing you should be able to do it, but doing it behind the safety of concord needs to remain balanced so that other professions are equally viable.

I always thought that PVE and PVP should not be two different gameplay.

You should be able to pass from PVE to PVP instantly and in some cases, it should be exactly the same thing.

NPCs should work as players work, The most ISK rewarding missions could have a PVP risk like going in low sec to find and kill a NPC, (50% of the reward could be an item looted on this NPC)

Farming Anomalies is boring as mining is boring. I think CCP should really work on this aspect of the game that is a great part of the time we spend to play.

yep you got it! another "PVP OR DIE!! PLEASE CCP FIX!!!!!" post. I'm kinda a little sick of the pvp snobbery post. I don't think anyone who is really space rich could say they made all that money purely blowing up ships all day. OP is again, advocating changes so there is "risk" involved in high sec activities. This might sound innocent, but lets stop and think who is going to be the "risk", and, why wouldn't you know! OP!...conflict of interest? You can bet your bottom dollar!

I have mixed feelings about original post, are you willing to pay CCP for losing all those that just want to play to relax and to be lazy? A huge portion of players don't want to put a thousand hours into becoming Eve Gods that know every little formula in the game that can calculate spreadsheets in their mind. If you make that the requirement for playing "your" game then you'll quickly find that you have to pay 900% more in subscription because the 90% of the most casual players go away. Who are you supposed to shoot when you have chased away all the targets from the game? Who are you going to shoot at when everyone will be better at eve than you? I think you'll make another thread when you get tricked and killed by mission-runners that you forced to learn the game.

Read the first post. And I'm sorry, but there's 25 pages of 5-10 minute monologues. It would take me all day to read this thread.

So here is my excessively long post to add to the problem.

I think, OP, it would help to consider the type of player most mission grinders are. Most of them are never going to like PvP, have no interest in trying it, and prefer doing in video games exactly what they're doing: mindless grinding of ineffectual enemies. Because a part of Eve allows you to do this they try to ignore the rest of the game. Please remember that we all ignore certain aspects of the game. I ignore mission grinding unless I need station perks in a specific area or something from the LP store. I imagine you avoid it like the plague.

Edit: Here I should point out that you might also consider that the devs made, and keep, NPC's as boring and 1-dimensional as possible to encourage other players that DO wish to get more from their gameplay to look elsewhere for that dynamic experience. If the security missions were more interesting, that would just mean more people would spend more time grinding them because their overall appeal can reach a wider audience.

I know it's hard to believe that there are so many people who enjoy that, but they do. Those people were never going to leave high sec no matter how much they understood about game mechanics. Years ago they would've quit Eve after their first month, now they have something to keep them interested and you are provided with at least "some" content by their presence. Better than nothing? Ehh.... Debatable.

Low and null are empty, and WH space is WH space. This isn't because people can make a lot of money in high sec, it's because those players in high sec have no interest in USING the game mechanics required to survive and enjoy low, null, and elsewhere. It's not in their scope of what they call entertainment to begin with.


Now here's another problem: I said most.... So what's happening to the rest of the players who would potentially be interested in experiencing the rest of the game? They get driven away because they get griefed in their current gameplay experience while still trying to either wrap their head about how to get out into low and null without screwing themselves and making the game unenjoyable to them, or while trying to pad their purse so that they can get out there and learn by trial and error without, again, screwing themselves and making the game unenjoyable.

Sooo... Maybe the problem isn't that high sec income is broken, but you just suck at recruiting people to make even more in low?

These people already enjoy ratting, and there is plenty of ratting to be done in low. I travel through systems in low every day with 6-15 anomalies on the scanner, and nobody to be seen for several jumps. Why aren't you recruiting mission runners, taking them out there to rat, and introducing them to PvP mechanics from the inside of the system instead of beating them over the head with screwed up high sec mechanics from the outside?

You keep mentioning "my" sandbox "my" content "my" this and that. Guess what? PvE players also have the potential to be "Your" assets. You can get them to work for you and help support your style of gameplay and it would take less effort than high sec shenanigans. Ratters make great bait to pull in other PvPers in low. Having PvPers jump on you while you're ratting is a great POSITIVE motivator to learn about real PvP mechanics, and not high sec BS. Having people flip your cans in a security mission is just seen as a negative form of harassment by these players.


You keep saying these people should come out to low/null sec, but you offer them nothing for doing so. They don't see that you offer them training in interesting aspects of the game, they don't see that there is any benefit to living or even spending a moderate amount of time out there in comparison to the risks, and they don't see any reason to associate with anyone out in low/null whereas in high sec they have at least a little casual camaraderie with random people in local. All they see is just how much of a **** you can be without any provocation.

Potential recruits and new players are assets. You acquire them just like any other asset, and try to keep them. You can't steal players from high sec, you can't loot them, you can't chase them out of high sec. All you can do is chase them out of the game. Every player you chase out of the game is a lost asset. You protect every other asset associated with your account. Your ISK, your SP, your ship, your implants if you're not in a JC.

Don't ask why the nest stinks when you're the one that crapped in it. Clean it up or deal with it. Start encouraging and compelling players to enjoy PvP and low sec, and stop trying to force them. You can't force anyone to like anything about a video game, they always have the option to log off.

Lets be honest, this is just a bad idea. The game already has it's high risk environments, and NPC farming people are given the choice to play that way if they chose to have such a dull/specialized gaming experience.

As a seasoned PVPer myself, I think your idea of making rats fight like seasoned PvPers is one of the most insane ideas I've ever heard. A wide range of difficulties for rats already exists.

I think what you really want to do is remove people's ability to remain relatively safe from harassment without giving heavy hitting PvPers to make short work of the highsec pvp bears, who themselves chose to remain in highsec to avoid lowsec and nullsec level pvp risks... All the mechanics allowing you to harass noobs or pve players are already in place. There are better ways to spend CCPs energy than trying to please your interests in expanding your bullying of pve-specialized players.

As a mentor, I would also like to say that noobs already have a hard enough time in eve, it's the reason why Eve remains still a relatively niche game for the most part, with fairly poor retention of new players. In time, CCPs business model will have to expand to be able to retain casual individuals, and keeping game options relatively wide. The cult-ure of EvE will have to become more accepting of diverse player interests if it is to tap into a wider market.

Your ignorance is beyond hilarious. The Rifterlings live in lowsec, and roam around outside their own territory frequently. I've come across kitty a few times myself.

You're only point is that you didn't bother to read it, or do any research. Which is par for the course for you, obviously, but I don't mind calling you out on your bullshit.



Welcome to dealing with carebears. Separating their self interest from their opinion really is asking too much. It's why they accuse you of doing it, afterall, because they cannot countenance someone making suggestions in honesty, without an ulterior motive.

A thief will always believe that another will steal, and all that.

1- You're also proposing to lower the number of NPCs, right? Because with smart, hard NPCs at the current numbers, missions would be nothing but dogpiling competitions, and dogpiling competitions are boring messes that involve very little individual piloting skill.

2- Bounties could stand a nerf, yeah, but there need to be isk faucets to compete with the huge number of sinks in the game. Construction is a sink. PI setup is a sink. Cashing in LP for stuff to sell to your fellow players is a sink.

3- It really doesn't matter how much you try to incentivize bears. You're not going to get them to fly into your guns, because they know that your guns are there, and they know how vanishingly small their chances of victory are if you catch them, and they know that it's pretty damn hard to not get caught at gates if the camp is any good, and they sure as hell don't have the patience to hunt wormholes all day just to get into lowsec without hopping gates. Since cheap, disposable ships with a decent ability to evade gatecamps are lousy at most activities, and everything else is extremely likely to be a loss, flying into pewspace for reasons other than pewing other people will always be viewed (rightly) as a fool's wager.

4- Let me explain, individually, why removing each of the three things you called out as "safety nets" would be bad for your play experience.

Green safeties are there for the benefit of new kids who don't even realize Concord is a THING yet, let alone realize what will make space cops explode their ships. Getting Concordokened before having any understanding of why that happens causes new kids to not waste any more time on that awful game that can't be bothered to explain how to not get blown up by space cops, thus depriving you of potential targets.

Removing gate guns skews the odds at gatecamps even more in favor of the camper, thus making it even more of a fool's gamble to enter pewspace (even for would-be pewers, who have to use bigger dogpiles or jump fewer gates to avoid being on the losing end of the Gatecamp Equation), thus leaving you with even fewer people to shoot at.

WCS are a genuine problem... in Faction Warfare, due to the nature and layout of FW complexes, which is a problem that can be solved in numerous ways that don't involve removing WCS from the game. Outside of FW, they are a legitimate counter-fitting option with meaningful costs, which you can still beat out by using more scrams (it even takes two of their slots to counter your one). More to the point, they are a counter-fitting option that makes potential targets feel safer, thus making them less likely to view pewspace as a fool's wager, thus making more targets available to you. Sure, they're slippery targets, but that just makes it more satisfying to catch them.

All in all, I get the feeling that you don't have as much of an understanding of human psychology as you think.

Interesting. So concord and suiciding is a low sec thing? You are wise beyond your years.

EVE is a game. People play games for FUN. Thus, they only hope of luring more people to low/null/wh space is to do one of the following:

• Show them how much fun can be had in those places. YOU have to step up and do this. Stop being lazy.


• CCP has to add new *fun* in low/null/wh space.

Notice how neither of those options including railroading people into a playstyle they do not find fun? Notice how neither of those options include taking away other people's fun?

OP: your suggestion is akin to me saying I want to destroy all the pvp fun in low and nullsec because there isn't enough targets flying through my wormholes. You obviously still take advantage of instant local so it would be unfair of me to force you to play in the sandbox the way I want you to play (in a WH). What is it that you are asking for? Oh right...