These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

My Sandbox is Becoming a Themepark

First post
Author
hellokittyonline
New Order Mining Authority
Safety.
#1 - 2014-02-28 04:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: hellokittyonline
PREFACE FOR PERSPECTIVE: I have made (and continue to make) all of my isk PvPing by baiting high-sec mission runners and stealing their ships. I use this isk to fund hellokittyonline's endless rampage in low-sec and PLEX my 3 accounts.

SKILLS MY PROFESSION REQUIRES THAT PVE DOESN'T:

1. People Skills - the socio-path-like ability to talk someone into doing something completely stupid

2. Knowledge of Game Mechanics - pinning a battleship with a frigate while tanking his entire lvl 4 mission (though this is much easier than it sounds... most of the time)

3. Creativity - because only an idiot would fall for that... right?

4. Risk Management - training 3 accounts and making a large initial investment so that you can execute a ridiculous scheme with no guarentee that this scheme will pay-out enough to plex said accounts or even pay for your initial investment.

THE PROBLEM: Far too many players are mindlessly farming NPCs in an all-but-0-risk environment and there is no longer any incentive for those players to enter a risky environment because they can make far too much bank with little-to-no knowledge about combat or game mechanics. Now this in and of itself wouldn't be a problem in your typical MMO but in EvE these actions slowly but surely dilute the sandbox aspect of the game as players are not required to use any creativity, knowledge, or people skills to move forward in the game. One merely has to play by themselves (IN AN MMO) for a few hours a day in order to afford pretty much anything they desire. Furthermore, the longer players have access to the I-Win button(s), the more subscriptions CCP stands to lose by taking it away (ie: balancing their game becomes a conflict of interest).

CCPs STANCE: Has been to continuously bubble-wrap the risk-averse making it increasingly difficult (in extremely superficial ways) for us content-creators to inject risk into their environment. EXAMPLES: Swapping ships with an orca was nerfed because we were killing too many mission runners, EHP of miners was buffed because we were suiciding too many miners, CONCORD was buffed because we were suiciding too many industrials, mission NPCs aggro mechanics were changed because we were stealing too many LEWTS, crimewatch (and the green safety) was added because too many players were dying inadvertently (even though it was already completely avoidable by simply understanding aggro mechanics). Even when CCP decides to throw us PvPers a bone (Faction Welfare) it all-but-immediately devolves into a cloaked, stabbed, farm-fest. Furthermore, when they add content for the PvEers (Incursions) the isk/hr is completely out of hand, liquid, and 100% riskless.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:

1. NPCs need to be DIFFICULT. Make the NPCs fight like a seasoned PvPer would. Neuts, scrams, webs, transversal, and the utilization of range control. These NPCs should only target the aggressors and they should encourage your average carebear to actually learn how combat works.

2. Remove bounties. Rewards should 100% be in the form of a tangible item in the game that one can trade to another player for that players isk (or even, god-forbid, STEAL). Bounties inflate currency and line the lazy-mans pocket as no processing is required to get the value out of their time.

3. Incentivize risk-taking. Whether it be a risky market endeavor or a trip to low-sec for those "o so juicy ores" there needs to be incentives that involve risking an engagement with another player for our lovely sandbox to remain as such. Furthermore, the rewards for said endeavors need to fall in line with the risk involved.

4. Remove safety nets. The green safety, gate guns in low sec, warp core stabs on ships already small enough to escape almost anything, all need to go. The idea should be to incentivize knowledge of game mechanics, and player interaction, not solo-farming.

TL;DR - Make players have to learn about the game and its mechanics in order to be successful.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#2 - 2014-02-28 04:26:56 UTC
I am proud to have given you your first like.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

hellokittyonline
New Order Mining Authority
Safety.
#3 - 2014-02-28 04:29:53 UTC
:O Erotica1! LEGENDARY
Natassia Krasnoo
R3D SHIFT
#4 - 2014-02-28 04:31:04 UTC
Uhm....you just contradicted yourself. You want to take a sandbox and remove tools from that sandbox that others use for content creation. Essentially forcing others into your play style. That is a theme park.

So just another why can't everyone play my way thread.
hellokittyonline
New Order Mining Authority
Safety.
#5 - 2014-02-28 04:38:44 UTC
Not at all, as the playstyles that this post is pointed at require no thought or creativity and just serve as an easy way for uninformed players to make isk. I don't want them to play my way, I want their way to be as challenging as it would be to come up with something completely original in order to encourage more players to play the game their own way (ie sandbox) instead of following a prescribed I-Win tutorial (themepark).
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-02-28 04:38:45 UTC
The biggest thing that prevents EVE being a genuine sandbox is the meta-gaming whereby large (mainly bluesec) entities prefer to coerce CCP into changing/nerfing/buffing aspects of the game to suit their particular needs rather than evolving their own in game solutions.

It can never be a true sandbox when forum whining is allowed to result in game changes.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-02-28 04:39:53 UTC
mooom, they don't play with me!
MAKE THEN PLAY WITH MEEEEE

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

hellokittyonline
New Order Mining Authority
Safety.
#8 - 2014-02-28 04:43:36 UTC  |  Edited by: hellokittyonline
^Typical carebear response. Completely uninformed posting in defense of their mindless play with the assumption that they should be able to play in a 100% safe environment, by themselves (themepark), at the expense of the fun of others who would prefer a risky and exciting game environment (sandbox).
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#9 - 2014-02-28 04:46:37 UTC
The original post clearly states possible solutions. The problem is largely agreed upon. There are plenty of themepark games to choose from. Some of them I would play if they were not themeparks and I had a glimmer of hope they would last, mainly Star Trek and Star Wars.

There is only one EVE.

Once you take EVE too far towards a themepark, then other games look attractive, and the core players actually leave.

People come to EVE after reading of massive space battles, massive ponzis, corporate infiltration, etc. They don't join because they heard about mining lasers and mission grinding.

The awesomely complex economy EVE has needs all player types. But if CCP simply goes back to basics and focuses on what makes EVE special, the rest will take care of itself.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-02-28 04:46:41 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:
^Typical carebear response. Completely uninformed posting in defense of their mindless play with the assumption that they should be able to play in a 100% safe environment, by themselves (themepark), at the expense of the fun of others who would prefer a risky and exciting game environment (sandbox).



Harassing CCP to change the game to suit your needs does not constitute "content creation".
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2014-02-28 04:46:44 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The biggest thing that prevents EVE being a genuine sandbox is the meta-gaming whereby large (mainly bluesec) entities prefer to coerce CCP into changing/nerfing/buffing aspects of the game to suit their particular needs rather than evolving their own in game solutions.

It can never be a true sandbox when forum whining is allowed to result in game changes.


Tell me again how the tech nerf helped us and how we gain from having to give up our afk domi fleets.
hellokittyonline
New Order Mining Authority
Safety.
#12 - 2014-02-28 04:48:49 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:
^Typical carebear response. Completely uninformed posting in defense of their mindless play with the assumption that they should be able to play in a 100% safe environment, by themselves (themepark), at the expense of the fun of others who would prefer a risky and exciting game environment (sandbox).



Harassing CCP to change the game to suit your needs does not constitute "content creation".

Harassing CCP to nerf my content creation ruins my sandbox.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#13 - 2014-02-28 04:49:46 UTC
Nerf... Erm... Everything but the way I play??

Also, as the Doc is nowhere to be found (maybe the kitties ganged up on him), Features and Ideas Arrow

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."

hellokittyonline
New Order Mining Authority
Safety.
#14 - 2014-02-28 04:53:10 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
Nerf... Erm... Everything but the way I play??

Also, as the Doc is nowhere to be found (maybe the kitties ganged up on him), Features and Ideas Arrow


You seem to be referring to the constant carebear nuthugging, as I've seen nothing but sandbox nerfs and themepark buffs for around 3 years now. I'm posting in the name of balance, not BUFF MY ISK FAUCET like the carebears do. As a matter of fact, most of the changes I'm asking for would not help my mission baiting at all.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#15 - 2014-02-28 04:54:45 UTC
What EVE needs is more ways to lose your ship, more ways to get scammed, more ways to lose SOV, etc.

I don't care who owns what space or what people do with their time in game. The key is that the sandbox needs to be embraced. Give players more tools and more freedom to make their own decisions, take more risk, etc.

You know, taking away Concord's invincibility is not a bad start...

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Natassia Krasnoo
R3D SHIFT
#16 - 2014-02-28 05:01:23 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:
^Typical carebear response. Completely uninformed posting in defense of their mindless play with the assumption that they should be able to play in a 100% safe environment, by themselves (themepark), at the expense of the fun of others who would prefer a risky and exciting game environment (sandbox).


You would take those that prefer not to take more risk and ruin their fun. Fun is subjective. What you may find fun others will not. What they may find fun you may find boring or mundane.
Eve is not as much of a sandbox as it used to be, but that has little to do with the PVE factors in the game and more to do with people finding "interesting, inventive, and new" ways to utilize mechanics in the game until CCP are forced to change or remove them.
In the end it's about keeping players interested and subscribing or plexing their accounts. Which brings in money to CCP, which keeps them fed and employed. Unfortunately a lot of new players are lost because EVE is a sandbox and they have no idea how to handle that.
So is EVE becoming more of a theme park? Not really.
Is EVE a true sandbox? Nope not really. But much more so than just about any other game you'll find on a single sharded universe.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#17 - 2014-02-28 05:05:32 UTC
If EVE is not allowing you to play the game in ways you see fit and it is making you unhappy, I would suggest you alter your play style so you may find enjoyment in other areas.

Or you can always pursue your quest for happiness in one of the potentially endless possibilities that exist out side of EVE.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#18 - 2014-02-28 05:07:11 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:
Seraph Essael wrote:
Nerf... Erm... Everything but the way I play??

Also, as the Doc is nowhere to be found (maybe the kitties ganged up on him), Features and Ideas Arrow


You seem to be referring to the constant carebear nuthugging, as I've seen nothing but sandbox nerfs and themepark buffs for around 3 years now. I'm posting in the name of balance, not BUFF MY ISK FAUCET like the carebears do. As a matter of fact, most of the changes I'm asking for would not help my mission baiting at all.


Okay i'll bite the bullet on one point: "The green safety, gate guns in low sec, warp core stabs on ships already small enough to escape almost anything, all need to go. The idea should be to incentivise knowledge of game mechanics, and player interaction, not solo-farming."

Green safety, I can't comment on as I dont use it so moot point for me there.

However, in regards to gate guns in lowsec, lowsec is still empire space, if people want no gate guns they should go to lawless space, null or wh's. Lowsec is not fully lawless, hence the sec status drops and people being criminal/suspect. There are also ways to get around the gate guns. Sebo the crap out of a naga and sit 150+ off a gate, you can lock most things relatively quick and snipe them without the guns engaging you (hilarity ensues when they get annoyed with that one).

Warp core stabs, yeah, people overload their whole bottom rack with warp stabs but saying that, there's nothing to stop you from overloading your midslots with warp scrams and dropping a **** load of hurt on their asses. They will sacrefice tank/tracking/damage mods to get away, so adjust your ship to counter that or bring a bigger force. There will always be risk averse people in games like this, just got to change up styles to get them. What bugs me in FW space is when they sit im a complex in cheap t1 unfit ship...that I will agree is pointless.

(I can't comment on hisec ship ganking or whatever because I have never done it).

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."

Ai Shun
#19 - 2014-02-28 05:07:54 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
You know, taking away Concord's invincibility is not a bad start...


I like a fair number of the ideas present here - the concept of having an AI subsystem that is at least moderately challenging through tactical ability rather than overwhelming numbers is appealing. Also, the bounties sound sensible - but I'd need to think about that one and what ramifications there could be further down the pipe.

And I love the principle that space, including Empire space, are sov held. Let Caldari hold space through might, not through invincible CONCORD. (I seem to recall Tippia or one of the elders saying something about this being a bad idea and that it was like that a long time ago, but my memory may just be very futzy) Still - having to have them actually hold their space against the other empires is good. It would be nice if Sansha could make real inroads and claim systems for themselves. Let the universe breathe a bit.

I think that's the key though - need to think through the potential problems. If, for example, CONCORD was no longer invincible you can bet it won't be long before a certain alliance has taken over Jita or done something similar. And while that is appealing from a real game world perspective I'm not 100% convinced that such balls to the wall open gameplay is entirely appropriate to CCP. 80 - 90%, but 110%?

Needs further though.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#20 - 2014-02-28 05:08:33 UTC
You know what we really need to spice things up is a new ponzi that reaches epic proportions. Let me tell you, there are so many people that have joined since the last ones, they don't know what they missed...

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

123Next pageLast page