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Why are some people "afraid" of EvE?

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Ai Shun
#181 - 2014-02-28 04:14:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sure, but that's also why it's needed: as a source to reference when explaining where the comparison breaks down. Leveraging existing terminology as a kind of transition and teaching tool is helpful (and unavoidable), but it also needs to not lead the understanding down the wrong path.


Have you had any joy sourcing that? The closest I could find was Hammer's Eve, which was last updated in 2007 (Looks like).
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#182 - 2014-02-28 04:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Tippia wrote:


For instance, and as discussed earlier, the XP = SP comparison is intuitive and easy to make, but it is also leads to the hierarchical thinking and “bigger is better” fallacy. Being able to break down that notion even before people get into the game would go a long way to get rid of some of the misconceptions about what new players can and can't do.




You should see the tantrums people throw on the Pathfinder Online (new fantasy MMO that uses the EVE style SP system) when they are told there are going to be no XP, no "classes" and power leveling will be fairly pointless.
Arachna
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2014-02-28 11:22:42 UTC
Well my friends that tried eve are not afraid, but this pretty much sums up how they see eve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QhJkGhYG1s
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#184 - 2014-02-28 11:29:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Because veterans lash out at new players in game and on the forums.

I can tell you it's ridiculous how many veteran players feel it necessary to act completely immature, childish and throw out insults to people for having different opinions.

Veterans abuse of new players contributes towards an aire of negativity surrounding the potential desire to engage in a long term relationship with eve.
Telemicus Thrace
Lucky Fedo Trading Co.
#185 - 2014-02-28 11:56:31 UTC
I'm going to throw some feedback out there on the subject of folks not wanting to play Eve. Myself and a bunch of mates played solidly for about 5 years. It was the nostalgia for those days and news of this monument that we decided to honour our past glories by getting our names up there. So now we are back for a month at least although probably not more.

Through the eyes of nostalgia I remember massive fleet battles, roaming and skirmishing, huge logistics efforts, smuggling runs through enemy territory. Building an outpost and living with my alliance mates in 0.0 was the pinnacle.

In between all that was lots of jumping, lots of time in warp, waiting for various timers, looking for action, camping gates or waiting out an enemy fleet. Ok, being Australian and having DT in the evening coupled with a massive ping doesn't help either.

In short the tedious and boring stuff tends to outweigh the fun bits, as one of my mates put it after listing all the excellent pastimes other than Eve vying for his time "... who the hell has time for something as brutally demanding and consistently unrewarding as eve? The ROI on time is just not there."

What the OPs mates might be seeing is that in this busy life we lead, when you have maybe a couple of good hours to play a game all these instant gratification games get you straight into the action. Just pick an online FPS with a local server and go for it. The industry / trading side of things might be your thing, I've done it to raise ISK for fighting kit but when I can find more enjoyable PvP elsewhere why would I bother.

Part of me would love to get back into Eve. I was going to jump on this evening but couldn't connect to the login server, no point checking now as it's DT in 10 minutes. Guaranteed I'll find something else to do for half an hour then end up just doing that. Sadly I remember this scenario a lot.

I do miss the community though, only in Eve can a guy get someone try to scam him, challenged to a fight and told to kill himself just for saying hello.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#186 - 2014-02-28 18:05:23 UTC
Part of me wants Eve to have some near-instant gratification too so my friends would give it a shot. But I'm too afraid it would tarnish the game we all came to love because it is so consistently unrewarding, and enjoyment is wholly dependent on community. My IRL friends don't play Eve, but some play World of Tanks and the Star Wars MMO. I think it's about a difference in perception of reward, as I don't get a sense of accomplishment from those games at all.
Vanqor Kashada
Perkone
Caldari State
#187 - 2014-02-28 18:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanqor Kashada
Divine Entervention wrote:
SKINE DMZ wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
SKINE DMZ wrote:
Titans are far from the best ships in eve(there are no best ships think of ships more like rock paper scissors, got to use the right one at the right time), they are tools against other big ships and can transport fleets from one place to another basically. You wouldn't go do anything in a Titan alone, they are only used with fleets so you wouldn't ever train to be in one on your main character.

You are extremely underestimating small ships, I did this too and I'm sure many others and only started flying frigates again a few months back. Within a year of playing you can be fully effective solo in faction warfare for example, winning fights and destroying ships of players who have been playing for longer than 5 years. The older character with lots of skill points will have the majority of their skill points in skills that are not relevant to the fight you will have with them.

People who think they need time to catch up don't understand EVE fully in my opinion, you can create a focused scanner guy right now and be more efficient in scanning than most pilots within just a few months.


Underestimating small ships. Wrong. I've flown in a frigate and been destroyed in 1 second by someone else. Maybe if you want to count target acquisition time, then it's still less than 10 seconds. 1 salvo = obliterated

Trust me, I am right.

If you keep playing you will understand all this by training, not player training and putting things into skill que online but mentally understanding the game, it's such a common mistake.

Here is some frigate PVP to show you anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZIIp342qIY you can fly like this within months.


You heard it here first, folks. A tristan is a t1 frigate. Within MONTHS you'll be able to fly a t1 frigate around and start seeing results! Never mind it's a tier just above the rookie ship!



Well i've been playing for maybe around 2 months online, with a 10 month break between those 2 months. I have a little over 3 mill SP and i'm currently flying a Domi BS doin lvl 4's without any serious problems. I've also been able to tank damage from my Corp mates in their t2's and fully fitted marauders for a short time. My skills are not perfect and i can't fly the domi to it's full potential but I fly it good enough. Sure it will take me some time to fly it perfectly but in the meantime i'm having lots of fun with my Corp mates. And that's only with 2 months of total active playtime. It's all about how u plan your skill training. And as a sidenote; i started my first week flying caldari ships
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#188 - 2014-02-28 20:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hadrian Blackstone
Vanqor Kashada wrote:
Well i've been playing for maybe around 2 months online, with a 10 month break between those 2 months. I have a little over 3 mill SP and i'm currently flying a Domi BS doin lvl 4's without any serious problems. I've also been able to tank damage from my Corp mates in their t2's and fully fitted marauders for a short time. My skills are not perfect and i can't fly the domi to it's full potential but I fly it good enough. Sure it will take me some time to fly it perfectly but in the meantime i'm having lots of fun with my Corp mates. And that's only with 2 months of total active playtime. It's all about how u plan your skill training. And as a sidenote; i started my first week flying caldari ships


That's great you are having lots of fun. Eve really is about teamwork and team play.

However, I can tell by your SP level and amount playing that in a 1v1 matchup with a decent frigate, destroyer, cruiser, BC, or BS pilot, you will get smoked. Why? Because you trained to fly ships but you haven't trained to fly any ships well at this point. You also have zero kills on your killboard and seven losses. And you do silly things like put a prototype cloaking device on an Astero. I know it's really cool to fly a shiny ship, but if you can't fit it properly, don't fly it, especially where it has a chance of being blown up.

And this is the whole SP conundrum. Do skillpoints matter with regards to PvP? Of course they do. The Tristan I am able to fly now is literally double the Tristan I could fly 4 months ago, and that's all due to skillpoints. I could give the Tristan I can fly now to Hadrian B of 4 months ago and he could give me his, and I bet I'd lose.

But as I mentioned, Eve is all about teamwork. This is where you can mitigate and make SP null and void. The best Tengu pilot in the world couldn't fend off 20 guys in T1 frigates that have been playing for a couple weeks. In Eve, numbers are the great equalizer.

So it all boils down to, are you a fairly new player? Do you want to go do some PvP? Great! Do you have friends? No? Then get ready to get podded. Because the majority of the people who solo PvP are good enough they don't need help. Just think about that.


P.S. I have been playing for 6 months now. You can go look at my killboard, it's not pretty - but that's the point.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#189 - 2014-02-28 20:34:48 UTC
Aargolos wrote:
BOOO!

So I was talking to some friends tonight that I used to play another "mmo" with. My question was, "why don't you play EvE?". They're still on the same ****** game for years. No development, no interesting changes, diminishing player-base.

These people have the potential to be "great" EvE players. They can find and exploit new features pretty effectively, use abstract tactics, and are willing to win at all costs. Also they like the "politics" aspect of gaming, and the meta-game.

Is it a fear of the learning cliff? Would they rather stay in the baby sandbox and "win" over taking a chance in the "big pond"?

Has anyone else had the same experience with their gaming "friends"?


You assume to much.

Because throwing a large amount of objects in a game makes it hard. Although eve does make stupid people feel smart.

Maybe they don't like the snooze type game play. Maybe they don't like playing a game that is 99% mouse. Maybe they like actually doing something i their game. Because pressing F1 is hard.
Vanqor Kashada
Perkone
Caldari State
#190 - 2014-02-28 20:35:56 UTC
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
Vanqor Kashada wrote:
Well i've been playing for maybe around 2 months online, with a 10 month break between those 2 months. I have a little over 3 mill SP and i'm currently flying a Domi BS doin lvl 4's without any serious problems. I've also been able to tank damage from my Corp mates in their t2's and fully fitted marauders for a short time. My skills are not perfect and i can't fly the domi to it's full potential but I fly it good enough. Sure it will take me some time to fly it perfectly but in the meantime i'm having lots of fun with my Corp mates. And that's only with 2 months of total active playtime. It's all about how u plan your skill training. And as a sidenote; i started my first week flying caldari ships


That's great you are having lots of fun. Eve really is about teamwork and team play.

However, I can tell by your SP level and amount playing that in a 1v1 matchup with a decent frigate, destroyer, cruiser, BC, or BS pilot, you will get smoked. Why? Because you trained to fly ships but you haven't trained to fly any ships well at this point. You also have zero kills on your killboard and seven losses. And you do silly things like put a prototype cloaking device on an Astero. I know it's really cool to fly a shiny ship, but if you can't fit it properly, don't fly it, especially where it has a chance of being blown up.

And this is the whole SP conundrum. Do skillpoints matter with regards to PvP? Of course they do. The Tristan I am able to fly now is literally double the Tristan I could fly 4 months ago, and that's all due to skillpoints. I could give the Tristan I can fly now to Hadrian B of 4 months ago and he could give me his, and I bet I'd lose.

But as I mentioned, Eve is all about teamwork. This is where you can mitigate and make SP null and void. The best Tengu pilot in the world couldn't fend off 20 guys in T1 frigates that have been playing for a couple weeks. In Eve, numbers are the great equalizer.

So it all boils down to, are you a fairly new player? Do you want to go do some PvP? Great! Do you have friends? No? Then get ready to get podded. Because the majority of the people who solo PvP are good enough they don't need help. Just think about that.


P.S. I have been playing for 6 months now. You can go look at my killboard, it's not pretty - but that's the point.


It's true i rushed into the BS and some other ships and have paid the price for it. I'm currently training to fly the domi better. When it Comes to pvp i avoid it if i can, but like u said, in a 1v1 i would get smoked.. :)
Serene Repose
#191 - 2014-02-28 20:43:09 UTC
I'm afraid of EVE 'cause it stares at me when I log in. This makes me feel very uncomfortable. AND, I think it's up to something. Up to no good, if you know what I mean. I've already removed all the sharp objects from the computer desk. We whisper when it's in the same room as us...it's taking over the entire house!

Next thing you know, it'll be invading my dreams...but I don't have the heart to shoot it. So very cruel EVE! So very cruel!

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Telemicus Thrace
Lucky Fedo Trading Co.
#192 - 2014-02-28 22:04:16 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Part of me wants Eve to have some near-instant gratification too so my friends would give it a shot. But I'm too afraid it would tarnish the game we all came to love because it is so consistently unrewarding, and enjoyment is wholly dependent on community. My IRL friends don't play Eve, but some play World of Tanks and the Star Wars MMO. I think it's about a difference in perception of reward, as I don't get a sense of accomplishment from those games at all.


That's a couple of good points you touched on there. I wouldn't change what Eve is, I just wish I was still the kind of person to still enjoy it. When the mortgage was new and the kids were young it was cheap entertainment and a lot of my friends played so it was like Facebook with Skype and Spaceships. Now I have so many other interests and hobbies it struggles to compete for my time.

I get what you say about a sense of reward but remember some people play these games for a bit of fun at the end of a days work. For them the game time is the reward, they are not playing to feel rewarded. If that makes sense.

IRL I do fencing and archery. I love both but fencing suffers from the fact I can't really practice it without an opponent (setting aside drills etc). If I want to get in a sword fight I have to tee up a meet with someone or just wait for a practice session. Archery on the other hand I can do when I feel like it, I just take my bow and head to the range. I can compete alongside others but they are not necessary for me to enjoy shooting.

Fencing is PvP, Archery is PvE. In gaming terms, if we ignore Eve for a moment, if I want to PvP I will fire up a FPS or other PvP game and go find people to play, people who want to PvP at the same time as me. If I want to PvE I can jump in an single player game or maybe a co-op game like Borderlands. Most MMOs cater to both to varying degrees but keep them separate. The thing with Eve is that it's a sandbox so quite often you get the scenario of heading down to the archery range and finding a bunch of guys with swords waiting for you. In some ways that is cool, the unexpected and unknown. Other times it's just a PITA.

Extending the RL parallel, while I love fencing and archery I also enjoy running round at a BBQ with mates and our kids shooting each other with nerf guns and having a few beers. No rules, just laughs. For a lot of people that is what gaming is.

Being a sandpit Eve requires effort across PvE and PvP disciplines and not everyone has enough game time to do that well. I can jump in something like Star Conflict and be in a space battle in less time than it takes me to undock and warp to a gate. I can get a guaranteed 30 minutes of action then log and go do stuff that needs doing. In Eve I can't guarantee I'll get any action in that time.

People don't refuse to play Eve because they are afraid of it, it just takes too much effort to get to the fun bits a lot of the time. I read stuff where people play Eve for 10 hours a day and I can understand how this game suits that but understand that when it gets to that point you are living in the game. I play games for maybe 10-20 hours a month in 1-2 hour sessions mostly, Eve just doesn't do what I want from it when I want it anymore.
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#193 - 2014-02-28 22:12:35 UTC
Personal attacks are prohibited, therefore the post was removed.

Forum rule 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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Just Lilly
#194 - 2014-02-28 22:26:38 UTC
People are not afraid of EvE

EvE is not for everyone
Powered by Nvidia GTX 690
Ismol Mond
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#195 - 2014-03-01 00:56:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ismol Mond
Not even going to address the "it takes too long to do anything whine" that is what FSP shooters are for aka DUST 514.
The real reason we don't have more casuals in EVE is simply that EVE doesn't have any PVE similar to terrestrial based games. (our crafting PVE is the best though) Simple as that.
I've always wondered how/if EVE could implement galaxy type exploring similar to terrestrial based games. Then it might be easier to implement mobs and bosses etc. in high/low/mid security space.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#196 - 2014-03-01 01:04:50 UTC
Aargolos wrote:
Why are some people "afraid" of EvE?

It's complicated...

ba dump bump... Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#197 - 2014-03-01 01:36:00 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Because veterans lash out at new players in game and on the forums.

I can tell you it's ridiculous how many veteran players feel it necessary to act completely immature, childish and throw out insults to people for having different opinions.

Veterans abuse of new players contributes towards an aire of negativity surrounding the potential desire to engage in a long term relationship with eve.


Some do, most don't. But you have your opinions already set in stone and this topic has become way beyond boring. You have so far brought nothing new to discuss, nothing new to consider and nothing new to get excited about. What you have done is complaining for the sole reason to complain, arguing just to argue and most definitely not to listen to anybody with suggestions, ideas or even solutions ... In short: you are behaving like a troll. And for me from now on you are a troll in these forums who should be ignored.
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#198 - 2014-03-01 01:41:10 UTC
Its a massive time sink, its not free, and you don't have a whole hell of lot to do the first 3 months if you have no one guiding you on the skills to do "X" (mine, fight, etc.)
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#199 - 2014-03-01 01:55:14 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Because veterans lash out at new players in game and on the forums.

I can tell you it's ridiculous how many veteran players feel it necessary to act completely immature, childish and throw out insults to people for having different opinions.

Veterans abuse of new players contributes towards an aire of negativity surrounding the potential desire to engage in a long term relationship with eve.


Some do, most don't. But you have your opinions already set in stone and this topic has become way beyond boring. You have so far brought nothing new to discuss, nothing new to consider and nothing new to get excited about. What you have done is complaining for the sole reason to complain, arguing just to argue and most definitely not to listen to anybody with suggestions, ideas or even solutions ... In short: you are behaving like a troll. And for me from now on you are a troll in these forums who should be ignored.


Well obviously some people like it. I've been playing for a month, posting for about 3 days and have more likes than you.

You might not enjoy what I do, but some people do. Even more compelling, I enjoy it.

I am sorry you are only capable of interpreting and understanding situations from your own point of view, and are unable to step outside of yourself and contemplate experiences from others perspective.

There's a word for it. Egocentric. You are it.

#thebest

You right here is an exact demonstration of my post you quoted and commented on. You being a veteran, having a different point of view than myself, has decided to flame me for it.

You portray your self to be a negative person. That's how I interpret what you just showed me.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#200 - 2014-03-01 02:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolai Serkanner
Divine Entervention wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Because veterans lash out at new players in game and on the forums.

I can tell you it's ridiculous how many veteran players feel it necessary to act completely immature, childish and throw out insults to people for having different opinions.

Veterans abuse of new players contributes towards an aire of negativity surrounding the potential desire to engage in a long term relationship with eve.


Some do, most don't. But you have your opinions already set in stone and this topic has become way beyond boring. You have so far brought nothing new to discuss, nothing new to consider and nothing new to get excited about. What you have done is complaining for the sole reason to complain, arguing just to argue and most definitely not to listen to anybody with suggestions, ideas or even solutions ... In short: you are behaving like a troll. And for me from now on you are a troll in these forums who should be ignored.


Well obviously some people like it. I've been playing for a month, posting for about 3 days and have more likes than you.

You might not enjoy what I do, but some people do. Even more compelling, I enjoy it.

I am sorry you are only capable of interpreting and understanding situations from your own point of view, and are unable to step outside of yourself and contemplate experiences from others perspective.

There's a word for it. Egocentric. You are it.

#thebest

You right here is an exact demonstration of my post you quoted and commented on. You being a veteran, having a different point of view than myself, has decided to flame me for it.

You portray your self to be a negative person. That's how I interpret what you just showed me.


Seriously. You are comparing "likes"on this forum as legitimation of your opinions. Shocked