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Fittable freighters

Author
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-02-21 14:26:32 UTC
Hi,

It would be pretty cool if freighters were fittable. Thanks to EVE HQ ive been able to test the "myth" that freighters will become worse off with fitting slots.

There are many ways to approach it, but i think the most important slots for a hauler are low slots and rig slots.

I added two low slots so you have at least a little options, as well as 3 rig slots with 400 calibration. I only wanted to give it low cpu and low powergrid because in theory a freighter is a frigate with a very large cargo hold. Also its easier to balance. Primarily velocity, structure and resist mods, as well as expanded carhohold mods will fit. No armor plates or even capital modules etc.

Anyway the stock freighter has a large carhohold by default so one of the first things to do is reduce that in order to not make expanded cargoholds and cargohold optimisation rigs overpowered. Next is buffing the stock HP, because when fitting expanded carholds etc, they will reduce the HP. Basicially i aimed for a freighter with 2 expanded carhold II and 3 Cargohold optimisation rig I's to end up at about 182k EHP and 900k M3 with all skills 5. Very similar to the current stock freighter.

Players will basicially be forced to fit these mods if they want to a freighter that behaves similarly to the current one. However, they get the oppertunity to fit tank mods instead, or whatever tickles their fancy for a different build. With some of the best implants, as well as all skills V, the freighter would end up at about 750k EHP when fitted for tank. This is not even close to what most properly fitted dreadnoughts or carriers have. However its a significant boost from the current freighter which boasts about 180k EHP with decent implants and all skills V.

The cost of fitting the freighter for tank is a significantly reduced carhold. The 750k EHP freighter was only able to carry about 350k m3 cargo, and traveled a little slower than the stock one.

Basically a fittable freighter done this manner can be considered a buff, except pilots will have to fork out a little cash to get the modules that will allow them to obtain the previously standard stats. Its possible to increase the cargohold capacity a little more if using Tech II cargo expanding rigs, however they are expensive, and the total cargo amount will not exceed 1 million m3. On the Fenrir, which admittedly is the only ship i tested/played around with, i was able to obtain a maximum of 985k m3 with two tech II and one Tech I cargohold optimisation rig+expanded cargohold II's.

So basically my idea is to give freighters fitting options, since it looks like it can be done without making them overpowered. It would be interesting to see the freight space transform with these new beasts...
JetStream Drenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-02-21 15:18:36 UTC
It is a good idea. To garner any support you should follow CSM Malcanis's guidelines
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3334139
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#3 - 2014-02-21 15:39:35 UTC
donmess wime wrote:
Hi,

It would be pretty cool if freighters were fittable.


It would be pretty cool if muppets didn't post this same tired thread every other day.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4 - 2014-02-21 19:28:38 UTC
u think 750kehp on a hauler isnt OP?

when u say it doesnt tank as much as a dread and is therefore fine, is like saying we should be thankful an iteron doesnt tank as much as a drake.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#5 - 2014-02-21 20:18:40 UTC
I think the game would be better off without freighters. It's the rapid transport of large volumes of materials that causes the Jita problem.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Holdings
#6 - 2014-02-21 20:23:32 UTC
You should be able to fit freighters. It's a brilliant idea.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-02-22 09:28:52 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
I think the game would be better off without freighters. It's the rapid transport of large volumes of materials that causes the Jita problem.


I dont understand what the Jita problem is. Could you explain? I never used Jita
donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-02-22 09:31:48 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
u think 750kehp on a hauler isnt OP?

when u say it doesnt tank as much as a dread and is therefore fine, is like saying we should be thankful an iteron doesnt tank as much as a drake.


I should probably explain this point further. I did mention that combat and fitting wise, the freighter resembles a frigate with a very large cargo hold. However it is a capital ship, so EHP wise it should resemble these. There is also the price tag, which is similar to other capital ships, who can reach much more EHP.

Why do you think a hauler with 700k EHP is overpowered?
O2 jayjay
Trent Industries
Hell Dawn
#9 - 2014-02-22 09:35:47 UTC
I don't understand the Jita problem either. I don't haul or mine but +1 for wanting a couple slots to fit your Billion isk ship and protect whatever items you are hauling.
Dave Stark
#10 - 2014-02-22 15:39:45 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
I don't understand the Jita problem either. I don't haul or mine but +1 for wanting a couple slots to fit your Billion isk ship and protect whatever items you are hauling.


there's a great way to protect it already, don't be stupid with it. If you turn it in to a loot pinata, regardless of whether you can fit modules to it... some one's going to beat you with a big stick until the candy flows out.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#11 - 2014-02-22 15:55:15 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
I don't understand the Jita problem either. I don't haul or mine but +1 for wanting a couple slots to fit your Billion isk ship and protect whatever items you are hauling.


there's a great way to protect it already, don't be stupid with it. If you turn it in to a loot pinata, regardless of whether you can fit modules to it... some one's going to beat you with a big stick until the candy flows out.


ok i laughed so +1

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#12 - 2014-02-22 17:38:05 UTC
donmess wime wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
I think the game would be better off without freighters. It's the rapid transport of large volumes of materials that causes the Jita problem.


I dont understand what the Jita problem is. Could you explain? I never used Jita


Lucky you.Smile

The problem is that lots of people do use Jita. Too many people for the hardware to cope with, really. I think the game would be better with many smaller hubs rather than One Big One.

It's the rapid transport of large volumes of materiel that enables the formation of a single large hub and kills smaller ones. With freighters, people find it easy to move raw materials and finished products to market. Without freighters (and cargo Orcas) people would need to build and sell items closer to where the raw materials were mined, favouring the development of smaller hubs. This would be accompanied by increased costs and greater inefficiencies - but I don't think this would be a bad thing. Higher profit margins on items in numerous small hubs would create more opportunities for newer players to find industrial/market niches. In contrast, the centralisation of things in Jita makes it easier for fewer players/bots to manage greater market shares and to exclude competitors.

I am, of course, aware that the chances of CCP removing freighters are precisely zero. But it's an interesting thought experiment. Big smile
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-02-22 18:13:44 UTC
The more options we have for ruining a goon's day, the better. I would recommend having similar slot fitting to current industrials; I can see things like the Ark and Charon being tanked out fairly well. I would like to see JF's cargo hold bumped up a bit, too, although just having the option for expanding the cargo holds would be quite nice.
JetStream Drenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-02-22 18:21:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
I don't understand the Jita problem either. I don't haul or mine but +1 for wanting a couple slots to fit your Billion isk ship and protect whatever items you are hauling.


there's a great way to protect it already, don't be stupid with it. If you turn it in to a loot pinata, regardless of whether you can fit modules to it... some one's going to beat you with a big stick until the candy flows out.

right on brother! That is why it is not a bad thing at all. It is a capitol ship and a major friggin investment. It needs to allow for better protective HP, or ceaseless stupidity... depending on the owner.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#15 - 2014-02-22 18:27:55 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
The more options we have for ruining a goon's day, the better... I would like to see JF's cargo hold bumped up a bit, too, although just having the option for expanding the cargo holds would be quite nice.


With enemies like you, Goons won't need friends. Big smile

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Dave Stark
#16 - 2014-02-22 18:34:43 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
I don't understand the Jita problem either. I don't haul or mine but +1 for wanting a couple slots to fit your Billion isk ship and protect whatever items you are hauling.


there's a great way to protect it already, don't be stupid with it. If you turn it in to a loot pinata, regardless of whether you can fit modules to it... some one's going to beat you with a big stick until the candy flows out.

right on brother! That is why it is not a bad thing at all. It is a capitol ship and a major friggin investment. It needs to allow for better protective HP, or ceaseless stupidity... depending on the owner.


they already have more ehp than the very vast majority of all other ships in high sec.
JetStream Drenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-02-22 18:48:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

they already have more ehp than the very vast majority of all other ships in high sec.

True and they still cant safely carry around all your incursion supplies. True, and nobody intelligent expects them to fit weapons either. True, and they also cost more then the vast majority of ships and high sec as well.
Dave Stark
#18 - 2014-02-23 08:25:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

they already have more ehp than the very vast majority of all other ships in high sec.

True and they still cant safely carry around all your incursion supplies. True, and nobody intelligent expects them to fit weapons either. True, and they also cost more then the vast majority of ships and high sec as well.


that's because your average incursion ship is running in the billions, you're not meant to carry that much around safely for christ sake. it's high sec not a no pvp zone.
besides, you're using the wrong ship for the job anyway, put your modules in your blockade runner, then fly that and your BS hull with a travel fit to the new focus.
you can't whine about a freighter not doing X when it isn't intended to do X.

really? one of the few CAPITAL ships in high sec costs more than the majority of subcaps? colour me surprised.

edit: besides, you're running incursions. you can afford to have a ship in each focus anyway.
manus
RENSCORP
#19 - 2014-02-23 09:22:32 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

they already have more ehp than the very vast majority of all other ships in high sec.

True and they still cant safely carry around all your incursion supplies. True, and nobody intelligent expects them to fit weapons either. True, and they also cost more then the vast majority of ships and high sec as well.


that's because your average incursion ship is running in the billions, you're not meant to carry that much around safely for christ sake. it's high sec not a no pvp zone.
besides, you're using the wrong ship for the job anyway, put your modules in your blockade runner, then fly that and your BS hull with a travel fit to the new focus.
you can't whine about a freighter not doing X when it isn't intended to do X.

really? one of the few CAPITAL ships in high sec costs more than the majority of subcaps? colour me surprised.

edit: besides, you're running incursions. you can afford to have a ship in each focus anyway.


Could you please explain why you think freighters with more EHP is a bad thing? You are aware pilots will have to compromise i order to reach it? ~350k m3 and 700k EHP or ~900k m3 and 180k EHP etc.
Dave Stark
#20 - 2014-02-23 09:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
manus wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
JetStream Drenard wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

they already have more ehp than the very vast majority of all other ships in high sec.

True and they still cant safely carry around all your incursion supplies. True, and nobody intelligent expects them to fit weapons either. True, and they also cost more then the vast majority of ships and high sec as well.


that's because your average incursion ship is running in the billions, you're not meant to carry that much around safely for christ sake. it's high sec not a no pvp zone.
besides, you're using the wrong ship for the job anyway, put your modules in your blockade runner, then fly that and your BS hull with a travel fit to the new focus.
you can't whine about a freighter not doing X when it isn't intended to do X.

really? one of the few CAPITAL ships in high sec costs more than the majority of subcaps? colour me surprised.

edit: besides, you're running incursions. you can afford to have a ship in each focus anyway.


Could you please explain why you think freighters with more EHP is a bad thing? You are aware pilots will have to compromise i order to reach it? ~350k m3 and 700k EHP or ~900k m3 and 180k EHP etc.


because where's the tradeoff if you can haul that much stuff (both in m3, and in value), with that much safety? no other ship would offer as much protection, or cargo space. having freighters with that much ehp is both not needed, and not balanced.

freighters are great at hauling lots of low value ****, blockade runners are great at hauling a little bit of really expensive stuff...

also, if you think you need more ehp, why aren't you flying an orca with nearly 50% more ehp? or even a jump freighter.
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