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Fittable freighters

Author
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#21 - 2014-02-23 09:49:20 UTC
Reinforced Bulkheads and a DCU II in the lows. Use your rig slots to close the shield hole and increase the shield HP. Sig penalty doesn't matter on something that big.

Cue angry freighter-ganker threadnoughts. Though, I wonder if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#22 - 2014-02-24 19:48:36 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
DCU II in the lows.


its the DCU that is the horrible part of fitting freighters. u double the ships EHP by using only one mod. its very badly balanced.

freighters are designed for mass hauling, dreadnoughts are used for combat. comparing the two EHP's as though they are meant to similar sounds as logical as comparing their cargo capacities. get it?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-02-25 16:37:00 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
DCU II in the lows.


its the DCU that is the horrible part of fitting freighters. u double the ships EHP by using only one mod. its very badly balanced.

freighters are designed for mass hauling, dreadnoughts are used for combat. comparing the two EHP's as though they are meant to similar sounds as logical as comparing their cargo capacities. get it?


Are you saying freighters will never encounter combat?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2014-02-25 18:04:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
donmess wime wrote:


Are you saying freighters will never encounter combat?


no...

are u saying dreads should be able to be fit to counter frigs?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-02-25 18:21:35 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
donmess wime wrote:


Are you saying freighters will never encounter combat?


no...

are u saying dreads should be able to be fit to counter frigs?


What?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#26 - 2014-02-25 18:38:22 UTC
lol

ur argument for a tanky freighter is obviously that it encounters combat, and therefore should be fittable to counter it. in which case, dreads encounter frigs, and shout be fittable to counter them.

but in fact, the freighter is designed for hauling. its capacity reflects that, its tank reflects that. it does not need extra tank to counter combat the same way a dread does not need the tracking or web bonus to counter frigs.

The ships already do what they are designed for.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-02-25 19:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: donmess wime
The freighter does not do its job well. Sometimes you need to haul ~350k m3, other times well 800k m3. Depending on the circumstances you would prefer less tank or more tank, or less speed or more speed, or less cargo capacity or more cargo capacity or a compromise between the 3

CCP would have access to the data but i find i seldom load my freighters with the full amount, i wonder how often freighters go 100% full compared to 30% etc. There is something wrong when your only real option when having to move >100k m3 is a ship that is designed to move no less than 900k m3. With fitting options you could convert some of the excess m3 into tank or agility/speed etc. It would be a fair trade of. The only downside is gankers get less oppertunity to gank freighters but who cares. Its 1 billion ship, and gankers are borderline griefers anyway. And they have an entire line of shuttles, traditional indys etc. to scan/gank still. And even the pilots who need to move 900k m3 would have to go with no more EHP than the current ones. They would still be as vulnerable to ganks as they are now.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#28 - 2014-02-25 19:42:29 UTC
the freighter hauls 350km3 just as well as 800km3, with no benefit or penalty

whats the problem?

if u had asked for a smaller freighter that does not carry as much, but goes a little faster and maybe tanks a little more, that wouldnt have the same problems a fittable freighter would.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-02-25 19:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: donmess wime
Daichi Yamato wrote:
the freighter hauls 350km3 just as well as 800km3, with no benefit or penalty

whats the problem?

if u had asked for a smaller freighter that does not carry as much, but goes a little faster and maybe tanks a little more, that wouldnt have the same problems a fittable freighter would.



You said the freighter was optmized for its role. I argued it was not. Your only option when having to move >100k m3 is the freighter. Which is designed, according to you?, to carry no less than 900k m3 depending on the pilot skill, correct? If you are moving less than 900k m3 you are being penalized, because the freighter has no customization options, and is capped at ~900k m3, speed and tank wise. If you needed to move less you should be able to choose more HP or more Speed in stead.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#30 - 2014-02-25 19:47:34 UTC
that one module can double the tank

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-02-25 19:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: donmess wime
Why is that a problem?

DCU II doubles 'tank' on almost anything
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#32 - 2014-02-25 19:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
depending on how many slots and rigs u want to give it:

if one module more than doubles the tank, then having it fit should reduce ur capacity and speed by a relative proportion.

otherwise the freighter gets a disproportionate gain in tank, and breaks the balance.

edit-
so u have to nerf the capacity such that everything remains balanced. which will liekly mean nerfing such that if even if u fully fit it for capacity, it still wont be as good now. which is why many ppl will tell u, giving freighters fittings is a nerf. freighters are perfect

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-02-25 19:58:12 UTC
What is the balance here? What would make a 1 billion isk hauler imbalanced?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#34 - 2014-02-25 19:59:18 UTC
donmess wime wrote:
Why is that a problem?

DCU II doubles 'tank' on almost anything


right....well that clearly isnt true, or u clearly dnt know what ur talking about. when about 70-80% of a freighters HP are in structure...u cant add that up?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-02-25 20:03:07 UTC
You should try with some random ships in EVE HQ, you will notice they roughly double their tank when fitted with DCU

Besides, the freighter i suggested would be able to reach about 750k EHP. The current one can reach about 180k EHP and it is recommended that pilots haul no more than 1 billion worth of assets in it. So if you could increase EHP to 750k, then the new recommended value should be around 4.5 times as much. That means you should not carry more than 5b per haul before making yourself a target again. It is not out of propertions at all
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#36 - 2014-02-25 20:14:24 UTC
Quote:
What is the balance here? What would make a 1 billion isk hauler imbalanced?


current freighter is balanced and fine.

donmess wime wrote:
You should try with some random ships in EVE HQ, you will notice they roughly double their tank when fitted with DCU

Besides, the freighter i suggested would be able to reach about 750k EHP. The current one can reach about 180k EHP and it is recommended that pilots haul no more than 1 billion worth of assets in it. So if you could increase EHP to 750k, then the new recommended value should be around 4.5 times as much. That means you should not carry more than 5b per haul before making yourself a target again. It is not out of propertions at all


just like ur automation thread, some ppl already are able to carry more in their freighters by putting in work, time and having friends. i am a freighter pilot that does this. increasing teh tank 'just because gankers' means that ppl are able to get greater rewards for no effort, no work and barely any trade off thanks to the uber damage control.

the fact that u think other ships get the same benefit from a DCU as a freighter would is really not clever. even gallente ships that have their primary HP in structure dnt double their tank with a DCU. however, a freighter MORE than doubles its tank. with a DCU II it nearly triples its structure EHP.

if u want to carry more in ur freighter, but are worried about gankers:
use a scout
take more trips
use a webbing friend
have escorts

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-02-25 21:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: donmess wime
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Quote:
What is the balance here? What would make a 1 billion isk hauler imbalanced?


current freighter is balanced and fine.

donmess wime wrote:
You should try with some random ships in EVE HQ, you will notice they roughly double their tank when fitted with DCU

Besides, the freighter i suggested would be able to reach about 750k EHP. The current one can reach about 180k EHP and it is recommended that pilots haul no more than 1 billion worth of assets in it. So if you could increase EHP to 750k, then the new recommended value should be around 4.5 times as much. That means you should not carry more than 5b per haul before making yourself a target again. It is not out of propertions at all


just like ur automation thread, some ppl already are able to carry more in their freighters by putting in work, time and having friends. i am a freighter pilot that does this. increasing teh tank 'just because gankers' means that ppl are able to get greater rewards for no effort, no work and barely any trade off thanks to the uber damage control.

the fact that u think other ships get the same benefit from a DCU as a freighter would is really not clever. even gallente ships that have their primary HP in structure dnt double their tank with a DCU. however, a freighter MORE than doubles its tank. with a DCU II it nearly triples its structure EHP.

if u want to carry more in ur freighter, but are worried about gankers:
use a scout
take more trips
use a webbing friend
have escorts


I dont think you understand the crux of the argument, ive never been ganked in the freighter, but it seems to be what your argument revolves around? that freighters should be gankable. They probably still are with 750k ehp, but you need a friends etc. in order to succesfully gank a 750k ehp freighter. The argument is simply that the freighter has no fittings and that is a problem in and of itself given it is one the pinnacles of industrial ships. It should have fittings simply because its EVE, and because its a late 'end game' ship. Usually as you progress the ships that become available to you get more and more fitting slots

Some people say the freighter will become overpowered with fitting slots, but so far they have not demonstrated this other than saying one module will double its tank. But 1 module, specifically the the DCU II will double almost anythings tank when fitted. I dont see the problem
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#38 - 2014-02-25 21:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Really? Again?


Didn't we just finally get rid of one of these, like... last week?


A freighter may be the size of a capital ship and built out of capital ship components, but it's nothing more than a glorified box. If it was designed to be anything else, it woulda been given mods to start. As it is, you can choose to have massive cargo for a very finite amount of EHP, or you can choose to have less cargo for more mobility/other options.


A Freighter isn't a combat ship. If it's in a fight, you've already messed up. Kinda like a shuttle.... built to get you around quickly, but nothing else. Only this one is built to move your stuff around. Nothing else.


'Easy button' isn't good for Eve, and all these 'Buff Freighter/nerf ganker' threads are just trying to easy mode it.


EDIT: @ Pinnacle of industrial ships. LOL.


Uninstall and go home.

Lemme give you some examples of Pinnacle's of Industrial ships:

Orca
Hulk
Rorqual
(Any T2 transport)
Mackinaw
Skiff


^ALL highly specialized for their purpose.

A freighter is a giant box. That is its purpose. And it does it well already.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

donmess wime
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-02-25 21:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: donmess wime
You think fitting slots is dumbing down the freighter? or Easy mode? If anything the current version is easy/dumb mode and therefore ****** mode, pardon my language..

Anyway if we cant agree the freighter is supposed to be an end game pinnacleish ship there is no point in continuing this conversation
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#40 - 2014-02-25 21:34:17 UTC
eve has no end game. a freighter is not an end game ship, its just a really big hauler for hauling lots of m3.

a hyperion with no mods has 38k tank. with a DCU II it has 58k tank...and thats a ship with more structure hp than armour or shield...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

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