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Dev Blog: Alliance Logos & You - Clarification on submissions

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Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#441 - 2015-01-17 08:39:54 UTC
And higher standards for the logos(they have be lore frendly or at least neutral) plus revision of existing ones

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Wild Things
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#442 - 2015-01-18 02:37:22 UTC
Soooo, can we have an update on the process?

It's been a little while.

In this moment, I am euphoric.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#443 - 2015-01-21 20:44:11 UTC
CSM 9 Winter Summit - Day One Meeting Minutes


Quote:
CCP Seagull then talked about how using some kind of ingame tool to create logos or skin deisgns would likely be the next probable step in that direction rather than direct player submissions

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#444 - 2015-01-22 02:00:44 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
CSM 9 Winter Summit - Day One Meeting Minutes


Quote:
CCP Seagull then talked about how using some kind of ingame tool to create logos or skin deisgns would likely be the next probable step in that direction rather than direct player submissions

No.
**** that.
****. That. Entirely.

Such a mechanic would take away the variety and flavor of current alliance logos and replace them with the same kind of generic **** that makes our corporation logos.
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#445 - 2015-01-22 09:14:21 UTC

Quote:
CCP Seagull then talked about how using some kind of in game tool to create logos or skin designs would likely be the next probable step in that direction rather than direct player submissions


i once liked CCP Seagull.... this is F***ing ******** ... lots of people will not like this at all ...remember Incarna? This removes individuality from the game

Edit: i also fixed your spelling because spell check is very hard.

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#446 - 2015-01-22 13:25:42 UTC
To judge i would have to see the amount of option such "tool" would provide.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Dani Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2015-01-23 22:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dani Maulerant
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
To judge i would have to see the amount of option such "tool" would provide.


Probably what's in the corporation logo toolset, +25% more of those cookie cutter layer options, and then 4 more color options.

Also, I would believe I am speaking for everyone on that proposed option when I say "Nobody wants that!"

Show me where the masses were clamoring for an alliance identify maker that was just a clone of the corp logo maker. Show me!!!
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#448 - 2015-01-24 19:47:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Akrasjel Lanate
From CSM 9 Winter Summit - Day Four Meeting Minutes

Quote:
CCP Falcon explained that CCP knows what they want to do as an alliance logo policy. As discussed in previous CSM minutes, CCP will create a derivative work by modifying the logo with a frame or watermark. Players then retain ownership of the original logo, and they can do whatever they want with that.

The derivative logo with the frame would go into the client, and be displayed as now.

CCP Falcon said that the hang-up in preventing the policy from being drafted and going out was that the technical requirements were not finalized. The art system is changing, and this means that the technical requirements can't be finalized. Once the changes are done, then CCP can finalize the logo requirements and accept them again once the graphics changes in game had been finalized.

Once CCP accepts new logos, they have to remove the old ones. The timeline will be to accept new logos first, then at a deadline, transplant new logos in and overwrite old ones, removing logos which haven't been resubmitted.

After this, the logo process would be opened up. If anyone wanted a new logo to replace their old one, they could submit a new one and it would be overwritten.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Subsparx
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#449 - 2015-01-30 23:05:36 UTC
I'm interested to see what this frame/watermark actually is. I've been sitting on a logo for my alliance since before it was created, and they disabled submissions shortly before my alliance was allowed to submit ours finally. Cannot wait for this to be implemented again.

CEO of Crimson Serpent Syndicate - www.crimsonserpent.com

Chairman of Heiian Conglomerate - www.heiian.com

Owner of FWC - www.factionwarfare.com
Bob Maths
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2015-02-09 20:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Maths
I suspect that the contract terms as per the EULA make any IP dispute subject to Icelandic law, of which their legal team will be experienced in. However that depends if the higher courts in the EU, or even the icelandic courts (or any residential courts) would actually enforce that (if you could take it that far), furthermore are there any test cases that adequately define the ownership of content uploaded to the game for the purposes of representation of in-game groups or the extent of the enforcement of the contract terms?

Sephira Galamore wrote:
Uma D wrote:

I was wondering the same.. but I think the following clause takes care of that (in our favor?):
[quote]7.1. Force Majeure.
If either party should fail in the performance of any obligation under this Agreement, by reason of acts of God, strikes, lockouts, labor troubles, inability to procure materials, restrictive government laws, or regulations or other cause, without fault and beyond the reasonable control of the party obligated (financial inability excepted), that party shall be granted an extension to perform its obligations hereunder equal to the time the underlying cause prevented performance. Should any obligations of the other party be dependent upon this party’s performance, such obligations shall be similarly extended.


Note that I don't realls speak legalese either and reading most of that paragraph just hurts mentally.


I don't think that has anything to do with this but it seems to be saying that if you can't fulfill the contract terms because of whatever quantifiable reason then CCP will grant you an extension (excluding financial) in order to fulfill them if those reasons are not reasonably within your control, this also extends to anyone that is dependent on your fulfillment of the EULA. Not a lawyer, get some real clarification if it hasn't been asnwered either through a support ticket or an actual lawyer.
Ortho Loess
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#451 - 2015-02-09 21:14:37 UTC
Bob Maths wrote:
I suspect that the contract terms as per the EULA make any IP dispute subject to Icelandic law, of which their legal team will be experienced in. However that depends if the higher courts in the EU, or even the icelandic courts (or any residential courts) would actually enforce that (if you could take it that far), furthermore are there any test cases that adequately define the ownership of content uploaded to the game for the purposes of representation of in-game groups or the extent of the enforcement of the contract terms?


The legal department is apparently based in America. At least all those we have had contact with are. They also seem to lack any knowledge whatsoever of any other counties' laws, or even the faculty to acknowledge that other countries have laws.

You are correct that the EULA states that all disputes must be settled in the courts in Iceland. The decision to use lawyers who only know US law seems odd to me.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#452 - 2015-02-10 03:07:03 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
From CSM 9 Winter Summit - Day Four Meeting Minutes

Quote:
CCP Falcon explained that CCP knows what they want to do as an alliance logo policy. As discussed in previous CSM minutes, CCP will create a derivative work by modifying the logo with a frame or watermark. Players then retain ownership of the original logo, and they can do whatever they want with that.

The derivative logo with the frame would go into the client, and be displayed as now.

CCP Falcon said that the hang-up in preventing the policy from being drafted and going out was that the technical requirements were not finalized. The art system is changing, and this means that the technical requirements can't be finalized. Once the changes are done, then CCP can finalize the logo requirements and accept them again once the graphics changes in game had been finalized.

Once CCP accepts new logos, they have to remove the old ones. The timeline will be to accept new logos first, then at a deadline, transplant new logos in and overwrite old ones, removing logos which haven't been resubmitted.

After this, the logo process would be opened up. If anyone wanted a new logo to replace their old one, they could submit a new one and it would be overwritten.

A watermark or frame? Won't that cause issues i.e. altering the intent of the original logo? I can see what they mean, but that sounds like a poor method, unless the alliances get a say in what the end product looks like.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Bob Maths
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#453 - 2015-02-10 04:02:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Maths
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:

A watermark or frame? Won't that cause issues i.e. altering the intent of the original logo? I can see what they mean, but that sounds like a poor method, unless the alliances get a say in what the end product looks like.


Sounds to me CCP are essentially just using that as a cover to assert their rights over the submitted content in all of its forms (i.e from drawing to finished published product) which unfortunately reinforces their statements.

Ortho Loess wrote:
Bob Maths wrote:
I suspect that the contract terms as per the EULA make any IP dispute subject to Icelandic law, of which their legal team will be experienced in. However that depends if the higher courts in the EU, or even the icelandic courts (or any residential courts) would actually enforce that (if you could take it that far), furthermore are there any test cases that adequately define the ownership of content uploaded to the game for the purposes of representation of in-game groups or the extent of the enforcement of the contract terms?


The legal department is apparently based in America. At least all those we have had contact with are. They also seem to lack any knowledge whatsoever of any other counties' laws, or even the faculty to acknowledge that other countries have laws.

You are correct that the EULA states that all disputes must be settled in the courts in Iceland. The decision to use lawyers who only know US law seems odd to me.


There's a distinct difference about communicating what you know to people who may not be able to grasp such information and having state recognition of your expertise and being legally and lawfully (in some countries) capable of practicising your profession on a commision basis. At least in some countries in the EU you have to get a First in Law and the appropriate professional qualifications to qualify to be a lawyer (even then it's difficult) - you need to be good and you need to be from a good university. I highly doubt the legal team CCP employs is incapable of understanding this topic extensively.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#454 - 2015-02-10 14:00:23 UTC
sounds good :)

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Druadan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#455 - 2015-02-16 11:41:26 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Klyith wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:

That's right, you should look it up!

Suggesting that CCP having an alliance logo in their game, owned by someone else*, is in any way equivalent to fair use allowing a coke can in a movie or talking about New Kids in a poll, it idiotic. I can't print Coca-Cola shirts and have it be fair use. I can't name my alliance "New Kids on the Block".


*or vice-vesa: CCP owned but used by someone making shirts


...What?

Yes. You can't print Coca-Cola shirts and sell them much like CCP wouldn't be able to print Goonswarm shirts and sell them. Well, they could - but they could be sued.

Goonswarm could print their own Goonswarm t-shirts and sell them though - whether or not CCP wanted it to happen or not.

The "fair use" was about a third party potentially not caring if their logo exists inside the fictional universe of EVE.


Except that CCP here is claiming ownership of the Goonswarm logo, which they absolutely do NOT have, therefore we need their PERMISSION to sell our own shirts. (in magical CCP land where making a post on a forum insisting you own something that you don't makes it yours)


CCP made this
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#456 - 2015-02-16 22:08:06 UTC
Druadan wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Klyith wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:

That's right, you should look it up!

Suggesting that CCP having an alliance logo in their game, owned by someone else*, is in any way equivalent to fair use allowing a coke can in a movie or talking about New Kids in a poll, it idiotic. I can't print Coca-Cola shirts and have it be fair use. I can't name my alliance "New Kids on the Block".


*or vice-vesa: CCP owned but used by someone making shirts


...What?

Yes. You can't print Coca-Cola shirts and sell them much like CCP wouldn't be able to print Goonswarm shirts and sell them. Well, they could - but they could be sued.

Goonswarm could print their own Goonswarm t-shirts and sell them though - whether or not CCP wanted it to happen or not.

The "fair use" was about a third party potentially not caring if their logo exists inside the fictional universe of EVE.


Except that CCP here is claiming ownership of the Goonswarm logo, which they absolutely do NOT have, therefore we need their PERMISSION to sell our own shirts. (in magical CCP land where making a post on a forum insisting you own something that you don't makes it yours)


CCP made this


+1

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#457 - 2015-02-18 00:00:23 UTC
Dani Maulerant wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
To judge i would have to see the amount of option such "tool" would provide.


Probably what's in the corporation logo toolset, +25% more of those cookie cutter layer options, and then 4 more color options.

Also, I would believe I am speaking for everyone on that proposed option when I say "Nobody wants that!"

Show me where the masses were clamoring for an alliance identify maker that was just a clone of the corp logo maker. Show me!!!


No, you aren't talking for everyone!
I precisely WANT exactly a tool like this!

Not one that looks like the actual corp one of course, but a good modern one, with a lot of templates, shapes, colors, typos, etc.

I want some lore friendly stuff, not that kind of crapy kid's drawings that are actually in game!

Per aspera ad astra
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#458 - 2015-02-18 02:16:36 UTC
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Dani Maulerant wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
To judge i would have to see the amount of option such "tool" would provide.


Probably what's in the corporation logo toolset, +25% more of those cookie cutter layer options, and then 4 more color options.

Also, I would believe I am speaking for everyone on that proposed option when I say "Nobody wants that!"

Show me where the masses were clamoring for an alliance identify maker that was just a clone of the corp logo maker. Show me!!!


No, you aren't talking for everyone!
I precisely WANT exactly a tool like this!

Not one that looks like the actual corp one of course, but a good modern one, with a lot of templates, shapes, colors, typos, etc.

I want some lore friendly stuff, not that kind of crapy kid's drawings that are actually in game!

Nobody cares.
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#459 - 2015-02-18 08:02:46 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Dani Maulerant wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
To judge i would have to see the amount of option such "tool" would provide.


Probably what's in the corporation logo toolset, +25% more of those cookie cutter layer options, and then 4 more color options.

Also, I would believe I am speaking for everyone on that proposed option when I say "Nobody wants that!"

Show me where the masses were clamoring for an alliance identify maker that was just a clone of the corp logo maker. Show me!!!


No, you aren't talking for everyone!
I precisely WANT exactly a tool like this!

Not one that looks like the actual corp one of course, but a good modern one, with a lot of templates, shapes, colors, typos, etc.

I want some lore friendly stuff, not that kind of crapy kid's drawings that are actually in game!

Nobody cares.


Funny creature...

Per aspera ad astra
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#460 - 2015-02-19 14:36:21 UTC
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2wcouv/ccplease_go_faster_on_fixing_alliance_logo/copt6nu


CCP Logibro wrote:

The current main thing holding up the new Alliance logos going in is a technical art consideration. At the moment we're doing a lot of work on our ships, and in the future we would like to have the option to allow players to put their alliance logos on their ships. As part of this, we'll need logos to be submitted in a specific format with particular attributes (certain layers, resolution, etc). There are a few things we can't know until we've done a lot of this work with the ships, so instead of getting people to submit their logos and then get them to submit again, we're just holding off until we know what we need the first time around.

There are some other ancillary points we'll need to also address first (there are some things around the legal aspects, but it's mostly nailed down - international IP law can be complicated), but for the most part that's what we're waiting for.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude