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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

First post First post First post
Author
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#241 - 2014-01-14 18:18:32 UTC
Major Templar wrote:
Did you read my post? You have stations, POSs, jumpbridges, Sov upgrades, and a great deal of other things to make wanting that space look good. If you don't like the risk of losing the deployable then don't deploy it or don't use it so far away from the front lines where your main forces are formed. Thus it comes back to, risk vs reward. Reward is more ISK risk is that you might lose it because it's not next door to your 2k staging system.

I'm sorry who exactly is worried about losing the EPP itself?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

iskflakes
#242 - 2014-01-14 18:19:19 UTC
These sound like an interesting mechanic. Here are a few use cases I can think of:

Setup a scan inhibitor and an ESS, get two people in cynabals and wait for interceptors to arrive. A great honey pot!

Stop people ratting in your space in cloaky T3s by setting up an ESS and taking some of their hard earned escalation money.

Will ratters ever use the structure to improve their income? Yes, as long as they're organized with good intel networks. They will see an interceptor coming from two jumps away and scoop the structure. You could even leave a hauler permanently sitting in range of the structure ready to scoop it at a moment's notice. If you have 10 people ratting and one hauler it's easily worth it. The structure will be less effective in busy systems though, but they're not exactly safe to rat in anyway now are they?

The only people who seem to be complaining about this structure are from bloated 10,000 player alliances that apparently don't have the organization to setup a simple intel channel or defense fleet. How hard is it to find 5 people out of that 10,000 to fly around in their own interceptors to catch invaders and have some fun?

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McBorsk
Multispace Technologies Inc
#243 - 2014-01-14 18:19:56 UTC  |  Edited by: McBorsk
Do you really want the content for pirates to be chasing ratters around and maybe make a 5m tax tic here and there?
Or perhaps provoke a battle between a navy raven and a blob of ceptors? yes, that should be satisfying.

It seems undignified.
Talar Draylan
Prophet Investment Firm
#244 - 2014-01-14 18:21:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Sure, as long as CCP can click a button and receive that extra bonus money from you. Surely you won't mind. Big smile

My point was, it will still be far, far easier to make money in EVE than it was in the past. In fact pretty much everyone can agree that there is far too much ISK in the game, they just don't want to be one of the ones that "might" end up with their income reduced.

Null sec ratters (if they can't be bothered to deal with the mechanic) can easily afford the minute loss to their income. However if they wish to use the mechanic they will actually get a boost to their income.

It's totally up to them whether they want to profit, or be a victim.



I really could care less about the 5% loss. What I am upset with is that they wasted CCP employees time with thinking this thing up. I would rather they officially nerf bounties than try to make this crap.

What I do see it as, is bait.
iskflakes
#245 - 2014-01-14 18:21:08 UTC
grrr small gang objectives

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Anariasis
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#246 - 2014-01-14 18:22:43 UTC
Love how this thread turned into "helpless" Goons with their massive numbers, space and organisation crying that the actually a lot less powerful solo roamer or small gang roamer (that usually gets blobbed and camped in by said goons) will destroy everything :D
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#247 - 2014-01-14 18:23:08 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
James, I've listed a half a dozen ways you can use this thing to your advantage.

You've listed one draw back and ignored various ways that can be dealt with.

I like you, but seriously....

No, you haven't. You listed a handful of ways aggressors can use it, and pretty much none of the ways ratters can defend against it.

There's no reason for ratters to put this up, risking ~15% of their income (making 20% less than before 1.1), just for the possibility of making ~10% more (5% more than pre-1.1). If anyone else puts this up, it will be destroyed. The end result is a 5% hit to ratter income, plus the amount of time ratters have to waste in order to go destroy it.

If by change they decide to keep one of these up, any moron in an interceptor can warp in, trigger the full payout, wait the 40 seconds (because nobody is going to just sit at an ESS waiting for this to happen, that's absolutely ridiculous) and take all of the payout (again, at zero risk to himself).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#248 - 2014-01-14 18:23:24 UTC
Anariasis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

This isn't a small gang objective. This is a "solo interceptors taking everything at no risk to themselves" idea.


What is it that goons think Inties are the new evil untouchable overlords that can warp to the thing (notifying everyone) and then stay there for 60 secs until they can actually loot the stuff?


I'm not a goon, and more than likely the guy attacking ratters with that inty. I can enter system, warp to the beacon within 15-20 seconds, activate it within 20 additional seconds, then power off to 150+ km's during the 40 seconds it takes to online, and warp down and snag the tags and get away. A ratter in a BC will have no chance of stopping me, and attempting to do so will be very dangerous for him (as my pals could easily be waiting to enter system). Warping to a POS or station (as they will when I enter system because they assume I'm hunting them) will take 20-30 seconds, add another 20 seconds to swap ships to engage my inty, and antoher 20 seconds to get on grid, and there is very little time to defend he ESS before I take the loot, decline the engagement, or bring in reinforcements.

Frankly, I like the idea of the ESS, but find the response window too low. Locals need time to form up and defend it, and 60 seconds is not enough time.

Increase activate to 3-5 minutes, and then increase the drop time to 3-5 minutes, and now an organized group of players can scout the system next door, form up a response, and attack the people at the ESS. At 6-10 minutes, they have enough time to respond, but not enough time to truly blob.
Taint Stain
Doomheim
#249 - 2014-01-14 18:24:36 UTC
ESS is terrible and useless, this is a direct nerf to nullsec through the 95% shinanigans, which we only get 80% when using this then theres the other 20% which has to be manually cashed in with the possible bonus of 5%.

Lots of bull for no real reward, let the unsubbing continue!

When you're all out of crazy please fix interceptors and drone assist.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2014-01-14 18:25:52 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Sure, as long as CCP can click a button and receive that extra bonus money from you. Surely you won't mind. Big smile

My point was, it will still be far, far easier to make money in EVE than it was in the past. In fact pretty much everyone can agree that there is far too much ISK in the game, they just don't want to be one of the ones that "might" end up with their income reduced.

Null sec ratters (if they can't be bothered to deal with the mechanic) can easily afford the minute loss to their income. However if they wish to use the mechanic they will actually get a boost to their income.

It's totally up to them whether they want to profit, or be a victim.

So where is this module's equivalent for missions? For incursions? For FW? Or are null ratters, the ones whose incomes are already anemic compared to the risk involved, the only ones who need a nerf?
Stop commenting, it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

I wasn't aware that mission rats and incursion rats don't have bounties....

Don't be stupid. The module could easily be made to take from mission and incursion payouts. It doesn't have to be bounties.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#251 - 2014-01-14 18:27:30 UTC
the fact that the ESS requires so much text to explain is the surest sign that its bad or poorly conceptualized.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#252 - 2014-01-14 18:29:25 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
A bit more on the batch sizes. We’re increasing the batch size for the smallest ones, so they all have a batch size of at least 100. We’re adjusting volume and blueprint material requirements accordingly so that the end result remains the same (i.e. each batch takes the same size as before and building requirements require the same amount of polymers proportionally). Furthermore, we will run update scripts to update all current stockpiles of polymers when the changes go live. This includes all inventories, as well as buy and sell orders and contracts. This means that players will retain the correct ratio of polymers.


So multiplying up the amounts, and dividing down the bid/sell price for market orders in the same proportion?

--

Beidorion eldwardan
Tactically Armed Vanguard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#253 - 2014-01-14 18:30:08 UTC
Dear CCP - please do not ban me for the post I am about to make

disclaimer - I HATE REAL MONEY TRADE OF ISK - there i make this pos RMT#

Have you guys even considered the misuse of this feature.

RMT'ers could simply leave a container full of tags somewhere and the buyer "happens" to find them and now you have a "clean" transfer of aburd amounts of isk that people could sell off for real money and you would have a REALLY hard time proving that was what was going

Did you even consider that - becuase this is eve and when you make something you need to start thinking like the most sick and depraved of us, if you dont then you end up making the tools to break your own game.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2014-01-14 18:31:13 UTC
Anariasis wrote:
Love how this thread turned into "helpless" Goons with their massive numbers, space and organisation crying that the actually a lot less powerful solo roamer or small gang roamer (that usually gets blobbed and camped in by said goons) will destroy everything :D


This affects literally everyone in nullsec. You're seeing a lot of angry goons because surprise surprise, we tend to keep our fingers on the pulse of game development, and plenty of us understand the implications of what's happening here. We're also actually allowed to post on our mains which, with the exception of the chosen few in N3 mouthpieces, is not how our enemies operate. If you think Vince Draken or someone who matters on the other side of the Goon Curtain is going, "damn this is sweet, I want these all over my space." or if you think any renter, in any renter alliance is happy at all about this, you're full of it.

It hurts goons, but it also hurts Northern Assosciates. It hurts anyone in Northern Coalition. or Nulli Secunda that spends any time ratting. It hurts every blue and non blue in nullsec for no real reason. Do you think anybody will be deploying these modules to maybe recoup some lost isk when the fact is you probably won't be able to recoup it, whether you deploy this dumb thing or not.

It's an across the board nerf to everyone who makes money in nullsec that isn't importing, doing reaction chains, or is pulling out moongoo.

In the south, this is known as horse-****.

Not to mention that we pay taxes to our respective groups as well.

If CCP wants to take isk out of the game, there are better ways to do it. If CCP wants to generate more conflicts, there are way, way better ways to do it, starting with overhauling the sov system without using gimmick deployables.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#255 - 2014-01-14 18:32:34 UTC
Beidorion eldwardan wrote:
Dear CCP - please do not ban me for the post I am about to make

disclaimer - I HATE REAL MONEY TRADE OF ISK - there i make this pos RMT#

Have you guys even considered the misuse of this feature.

RMT'ers could simply leave a container full of tags somewhere and the buyer "happens" to find them and now you have a "clean" transfer of aburd amounts of isk that people could sell off for real money and you would have a REALLY hard time proving that was what was going

Did you even consider that - becuase this is eve and when you make something you need to start thinking like the most sick and depraved of us, if you dont then you end up making the tools to break your own game.

Yeah, I'm sure CCP has absolutely no way to track that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

crazy0146
The Federation of assorted candy
#256 - 2014-01-14 18:34:34 UTC  |  Edited by: crazy0146
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
At first glance, the ESS looks like a bit of a kick in the teeth to the three or four people left ratting in nullsec. The likelihood of anyone hitting 'share' is going to be about 0, so they're probably just going to get shot on principal. So it's pretty much a perpetual nerf to nullsec income, again.

Edit: The ESS should really, really be available in all areas of space (especially hisec) then it'll be interesting. And should have MUCH higher rewards for deployment to make it worthwhile.


^^ If you're going to nerf ratting income do it for all sectors of space that have npc's with bounties.

Because lets be honest who is ever going to click share?

Having had time to think about this more, this is a massive buff to afk campers.

why you ask?

Drop ESS in a ratting system 'afk' cloak near it -> none of the ratters show up to destroy it or take the isk -> free isk for you.
-> ratters show up to kill it, take the isk from it -> decloak, light cyno, point ships, enjoy killmails.
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
#257 - 2014-01-14 18:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Snowflake Tem
Batelle wrote:
the fact that the ESS requires so much text to explain is the surest sign that its bad or poorly conceptualized.


Sorry, that is in fact a sign that the CSM has batted it back to the devs more than once with exclamation marks in the margins. They are trying to break this thing before we do.
If these cogs have your mind in a whirl, perhaps you should sit in a gate camp for a while.
Angry Mustache
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#258 - 2014-01-14 18:35:25 UTC
If CSM 8 let an idea as terrible as this and the Dscan inhibitor get to the point of Devblogs, then they obviously aren't doing their jobs.

Alternatively, they either objected, and CCP didn't listen, or CCP went right over them. In either case, why keep them around?

An official Member of the Goonswarm Federation Complaints Department.

Callic Veratar
#259 - 2014-01-14 18:35:27 UTC
Maybe I'm confused here. This is how I see the structure being used:

- Ratters deploy it somewhere
- Enemy warp to it
- They land 15km off the structure, notification goes up
- Alt sitting at the ESS clicks share bounties

This is then followed by forum complaints from inty pilots that they should be able to warp to zero so the can steal the money.
MrBawkbagawk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2014-01-14 18:35:46 UTC
oh look, a left handed nerf for drone space.


can we expect to see a set of faction items for rogue drones? no, of course not, that would be adding content. everything about drone space sucks compared to any other region including high sec and you make it even harder to earn a living?

who's friends are you, exactly?