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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

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Combat Wombatz
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2041 - 2014-01-23 17:58:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The dev blog should be out later today. The one day delay is my fault, I overestimated how quickly I'd be able to get it done in between CSM summit prep.


ESS is still terrible and implementing it in its current iteration would be CCP's biggest mistake since Incarna, news at 11.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#2042 - 2014-01-23 18:03:46 UTC
The ESS is now a bit less ********. Interesting choice to add another commodity-based revenue stream to null and reduce the hisec income at the same time.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Veng3ance
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2043 - 2014-01-23 18:06:39 UTC
Thank you for the changes to the ESS. Looks a lot better now.
Shutup Meg
KNIGHT Sweats
#2044 - 2014-01-23 18:09:47 UTC
The ESS, even with the changes, is indeed terrible. Ratting is a painful process in Eve along with any PVE, and I do not understand why you would make it more tedious and uninteresting. Why after such successful mobile structures such as tractor unit or cyno inhibitor would you decide on a structure that punishes you for doing PVE in nullsec where players drive some of the most valuable content as it relates to publicity of Eve?

I hope you consider dropping the ESS prior to Tuesday.
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2045 - 2014-01-23 18:23:27 UTC
Anyone know how much less reward missions/complexes are in lowsec space vs. nullsec?
Qalix
Long Jump.
#2046 - 2014-01-23 18:27:14 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Qalix wrote:
I rarely come right and out say it, but this is quite possibly the dumbest change I've ever seen. You're not reining in nullsec ratters, you're buffing them. ESS went from activity disruption to activity bonus.

Just as it should be. Nullsec ratting has not had the level of reward it should have given the risk for some time.

Then up the bounty buff. Bringing LP into the equation is just ******* stupid.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2047 - 2014-01-23 18:35:29 UTC
omg, CCP gives exactly what so many suggested (LP not get rid of ESS), and still crying how it sucks.

I don't usually come right out and burn people on forums. But seriously HTFU or go back to WoW.

And on your way out, remember to give me all your stuff. TEST-free needs mo' monies for siphons.

Review:


  • LP bonus ia2 isk. More effort, more reward. gj
  • More EHP = good.
  • Bigger volume also good.
  • Bit lower cost... ok. I can see that.
  • 10x increase to minimum range from gates etc... yup. You really want it off grid from those things.
  • Activation time increased by 2x. Don't see why. But doesn't seem to hurt anything.
  • Removed open window timer. Good. That timer was redundant as all hell.
  • Different longer timers (30/210s) on share and take all respectively that reset if you leave the ESS. Excellent. Can no longer warp in an inty, click take all, burn/warp off, then come back. You have to sit and fight for it.
  • Infini-point seems redundant with the timers. Just get rid of inty bubble immunity.


Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.

In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
stoicfaux
#2048 - 2014-01-23 18:49:38 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Soldarius wrote:

Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.

In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.


Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec.

edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million.

And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2049 - 2014-01-23 18:57:52 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Soldarius wrote:

Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.

In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.


Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec.

edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million.

And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS.


OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope????

stoicfaux
#2050 - 2014-01-23 19:12:12 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Soldarius wrote:

Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.

In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.


Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec.

edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million.

And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS.


OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope????


OMG, I can walk to the ATM at midnight through the dark back alley next to the crack house that's covered in gang-related graffiti and bullet holes, or I can use the ATM in the upper scale mall during daylight hours.

Just saying, some choices are choices. Some choices aren't.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#2051 - 2014-01-23 19:18:16 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Soldarius wrote:

Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.

In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.


Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec.

edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million.

And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS.


OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope????


OMG, I can walk to the ATM at midnight through the dark back alley next to the crack house that's covered in gang-related graffiti and bullet holes, or I can use the ATM in the upper scale mall during daylight hours.

Just saying, some choices are choices. Some choices aren't.


For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.

God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2052 - 2014-01-23 19:22:24 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Soldarius wrote:

Now, the question is if these changes are enough to make ratters actually want to use it? It seems much less abusable.

In Period Basis I had no problem getting 10-14m isk ticks in a ratting Raven. Other people did better or worse. So .2LP/1k isk would be 2000-2800LP per tick. 6k-8400LP per hour. Could buy yourself a CN Raven in 100 hours.


Or you could just make more by running level 3s in high-sec.

edit: 14m * 3 ticks + 8400lp * 700 lp/isk = 48 million.

And that's assuming the 700 lp/isk doesn't go down. The Navy LP store isn't great. And the 10-14 M per tick could be reduced to 8 to 11 M if someone steals from your ESS.


OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope????


OMG, I can walk to the ATM at midnight through the dark back alley next to the crack house that's covered in gang-related graffiti and bullet holes, or I can use the ATM in the upper scale mall during daylight hours.

Just saying, some choices are choices. Some choices aren't.


Perhaps, but that dark alley runs along your house's back yard, whereas the Mall is 30 minutes away. Not to mention you and your gangbanging buddies can walk to the back alley atm fully armed and legally able to shoot anyone and everyone.

Combat Wombatz
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2053 - 2014-01-23 19:24:17 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:

Just saying, some choices are choices. Some choices aren't.


For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.

God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.


And if they choose not to use them at all, they get slapped with a nerf painted by a mile-wide brush.
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#2054 - 2014-01-23 19:24:26 UTC
I like these changes. even with the 80% payout, the LP should make up for it even if the ISK gets stolen.

I like them a lot actually

Baddest poster ever
stoicfaux
#2055 - 2014-01-23 19:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Darek Castigatus wrote:

For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.

God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.

Okay, here's some thinking:
* the ESS reduces your liquid isk, which is one of the main attractions to ratting,
* the ESS pays out in tags that have to be collected and which can be stolen,
* you have to transport the tags to redeem them,
* you have to transport yourself to redeem LP,
* transport is probably longer and riskier,
* you need to sell your LP items,
* LP navy stores are already the less lucrative LP stores for various reasons,
* if null ratting is such a large faucet, then Navy LP value is most likely going to tank hard,

End result: Null Ratting is starting to look a lot like mission running, but with more inconvenience, more risk, less LP store choices, and less profit.


edit: And another thing, if Navy faction items (guns, ammo, ships) become super cheap and thus popular, then the *player* based economy/industrial base takes a hit from NPC "industry" which is probably bad for the sandbox.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
thowlimer
Roprocor Ltd
#2056 - 2014-01-23 19:51:48 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:

For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.

God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.

Okay, here's some thinking:
* the ESS reduces your liquid isk, which is one of the main attractions to ratting,
* the ESS pays out in tags that have to be collected and which can be stolen,
* you have to transport the tags to redeem them,
* you have to transport yourself to redeem LP,
* transport is probably longer and riskier,
* you need to sell your LP items,
* LP navy stores are already the less lucrative LP stores for various reasons,
* if null ratting is such a large faucet, then Navy LP value is most likely going to tank hard,

End result: Null Ratting is starting to look a lot like mission running, but with more inconvenience, more risk, less LP store choices, and less profit.


The ESS only pays out in tags if you choose the take all, ie steal option, otherwise with the share its all liquid isk as before
so tag and associated problems is not really a ratters problem it is a problem for the thief/griefer.
Far as LP goes, yup it will prolly tank a bit
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#2057 - 2014-01-23 19:53:28 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:

For instance you could have chosen to give some useful feedback, instead you chose to whine like a little girl.

God forbid people actually have to think about how they use these things.

Okay, here's some thinking:
* the ESS reduces your liquid isk, which is one of the main attractions to ratting,
* the ESS pays out in tags that have to be collected and which can be stolen,
* you have to transport the tags to redeem them,
* you have to transport yourself to redeem LP,
* transport is probably longer and riskier,
* you need to sell your LP items,
* LP navy stores are already the less lucrative LP stores for various reasons,
* if null ratting is such a large faucet, then Navy LP value is most likely going to tank hard,

End result: Null Ratting is starting to look a lot like mission running, but with more inconvenience, more risk, less LP store choices, and less profit.


edit: And another thing, if Navy faction items (guns, ammo, ships) become super cheap and thus popular, then the *player* based economy/industrial base takes a hit from NPC "industry" which is probably bad for the sandbox.


See, was that so hard?

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#2058 - 2014-01-23 19:53:57 UTC
So, just to be clear, the ESS still gives isk via tags? So, null seccers will have to ferry their tags out of the system to get that isk? I get that LP is going directly into my wallet, but how will the isk function? I hope still via tags.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

stoicfaux
#2059 - 2014-01-23 20:00:06 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
So, just to be clear, the ESS still gives isk via tags? So, null seccers will have to ferry their tags out of the system to get that isk? I get that LP is going directly into my wallet, but how will the isk function? I hope still via tags.

Nope, my bad. If you "take all" from an ESS, then you get tags. If you share, then the isk is put back in your wallet with maybe a small bonus.

Not as bad as tags, but now we have the privilege of getting our money back plus maybe a bit of interest, assuming someone hasn't robbed the ESS.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Genoa Al Salam
Doomheim
#2060 - 2014-01-23 20:05:20 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:

See, was that so hard?


Because smugging is so much better than whining...