Player Features and Ideas Discussion

While I think these changes go a long way to making these deployables "less bad," I believe there are still some fundamental issues which need to be addressed.

The primary design flaw I see in these items is that they either mimic or parallel the roles of existing modules which have a significant impact on PvP combat encounters, but would normally require a minimum level of trained skills as well as ship fitting requirements. As such, the new deployables provide a "shortcut' around the primary mechanics of EVE in terms of skill training and balanced ship fittings. In my opinion, this appears to be contrary to the basic philosophy of balance in this game.

The need for cargo space to carry the deployables, cost, and limited duration can be interpreted as compensation for the need to fit a similar module to a ship, and as such that is at least a step in the right direction. However, it does nothing to account for the need for trained skills to operate devices which have such a large potential impact on the balance of PvP. In order to have a hope of calling these deployables balanced, there needs to be a basic level of skill required to deploy and/or operate them. To do otherwise is to put too much power into the hands of those who have made no investment in earning or enabling such power.

Frankly, with regards to the MMJU specifically, it seems clear that it's role would be better served (in balance terms) by a series of MJD modules appropriately sized for a wider variety of ship classes. This would fill the perceived need for a quick escape tool while satisfying the conditions of skills and fitting requirements which make it possible to balance such a tool within the PvP environment.

As for the MSI, while the proposed changes are an improvement, they do little to address the effects of deploying these within deadpsace complexes (FW or otherwise). Such positioning gives players no option other than to deliberately warp directly into a blindspot. I have to believe that most competent pilots will choose to avoid such situations altogether, rather than face the potentially limitless risk of a trap of unknown size and strength. I shouldn't have to spell out how disastrous this shift will be for FW; a system where complexes are in place specifically to encourage PvP encounters will now serve as a deterrent to PvP and will only encourage even more avoidance of other pilots. Allowing the MSI to be used inside deadspace makes them virtually uncounterable, something which no system or object in EVE should be, especially not without any kind of skill investment whatsoever.

sorry, I actually misread what you wrote.

Pretty much every change that needed to be made has been made. Bravo.

MSIs look to be useful but not spammable and the increased volume will keep them a little more under control in wormholes. Only concern I have is that this may increase the defender's advantage in eviction fights as they will have more access to restocking on these.

MJU is now easily melted before it becomes an issue, but still should play a role on battlefields if a dispersed fleet vomits them out at a high rate.

One really interesting compromise:

Make the MSI block dscan, but allow scan probes to still scan objects there. This would be a very nice boost to covops for intel gathering & scouting... a role in which they are overshadowed by nullified t3s.

If you did this, then you should give the ability to dscan back to those within the MSI's influence.

That would probably be balanced as well, but the total sensor blackout is a cooler concept, I think. That said, Eve doesn't need either of these mechanics, so I'm not sure whose wishes for shiny~~ we're satisfying here.

This one.... or any variant found in that thread?

I am imagining them, but I am also imagining the frustration and losses when other people use the same stuff against me, and the latter is a more powerfully frightening vision than the former is warm and fuzzy.


Correct, but there is such a thing as "too much". The initial idea went beyond being useful and dynamic, and into the realm of "mandatory to use in a majority of gameplay areas to stay competitive", which is pretty much the definition of "OP".

Unlikely, since my sec status is somewhere in the stomach of an angler fish on the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

Could you clarify and detail a specific instance of "griefers" and how their life is paradise, please?

Also, could you explain how MSI's blocking d-scan from the inside helps griefers? They still have absolutely no idea what's inside, so they gained nothing. The one inside the MSI can't see the griefer coming, so I assume there's something someone in the MSI could do in response to seeing a griefer on the way. So... what does a griefer target do to prepare for an incoming griefer that they cannot do anymore? Something that adds that "risk" you keep talking about to the griefer's day?

Or, more shortly, if you saw a griefer coming your way, with him not aware of what you were in what would you do to increase his risk, and is that thing you do prevented by you not seeing the griefer on d-scan?

---

I can myself not think of anything I could do if I saw someone on their way to grief me other than either a) prepare to fight them, or b) prepare to run away. Since (a) does not require d-scan ability, as the extra prep time can also be obtained by sitting farther away from the warp-in, the only thing that removing my d-scan does is take away (b).

But... I'm not sure how me being able to run away adds risk for the griefer. I just don't get it. Enlighten me, please.

\

The MSI in its original form, with the prospect that solo PVErs might be using these, and being that the MSI could be more quickly scanned down than other pve ships, enhancing the element of surprise, pirates might have taken a risk for a reward instead of sending a scout in first. Now, with these new proposed changes to the MSI, when you see these things, its always going to be more reasonable to scout first with an expendable pilot.