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CCP, to Bring Balance, Nerf AC's (or Remove Blasters).
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Epiphaniess
Verboten Technologies
#21 - 2011-11-07 16:40:18 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Only people who don't fly all 4 races say "nerf AC's".

Everybody who does say "buff hybrids".

Macharaiel is OP, however its tracking bonus is huge, and does not apply to all AC's.

Learn to kite.

And with 2 webs on it, even blasters could hit it.


Does seem that way.

Though after CCP buffs hybrids, you know lasers will start to want some too. And then the cycle will start all over again.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-11-07 16:40:44 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Only people who don't fly all 4 races say "nerf AC's".

Everybody who does say "buff hybrids".



I fly all 4 races, so your categorization has failed miserably.

i challenge you to think about what youre saying. Kiting is actually a brainless mechanic when you dont have to worry about optimal. a huge falloff allows you to faceroll across any range. if you kited in order to maintain optimal, now this would require some skill. AC dps does not drop off quickly enough, and this is the problem. you dont HAVE TO kite to maintain optimal.

buffing hybrids without tweaking projectiles would essentially allow the brainless "AC kiting" mechanic to stay. and guess what? kiting with something with a huge falloff is a hell of a lot easier, so what weapon do you think people will tend to use?
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-11-07 16:42:49 UTC
Trainwreck McGee wrote:


How can someone who has been here since beta no so little about the game? EXXTTRREEEMMMEEE rofl idiot


oh hai troll. thought ud be here sooner.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#24 - 2011-11-07 16:50:48 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:


Macharaiel is OP, however its tracking bonus is huge, and does not apply to all AC's.




Machs don't have a tracking bonus...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Sader Rykane
Midnight Sentinels
#25 - 2011-11-07 16:51:59 UTC
Trainwreck McGee wrote:
[quote=Hungry Eyes]

How can someone who has been here since beta no so little about the game? EXXTTRREEEMMMEEE rofl idiot


Probably for the same reason that someone would assume that an old character has never been sold.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-11-07 17:07:52 UTC
I've got a better idea.

Switch ship bonuses between Gallente and Min. That should pretty much fix all the complaints. So, Min gets bonus to hybrids. Gal gets bonus to AC's. Done!

Don't ban me, bro!
Austneal
Nero Fazione
#27 - 2011-11-07 17:11:46 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Austneal wrote:

Each weapon has its own advantage, learn to use them / fight against them


You didnt fly any blaster boat right ? If yes show KB.. Coz you talking like shyittty noob.. Learn how to fly wtf ? You dont know too much about this game its history and why blaster sucks so hard right now ? Dont you ? Even CCP is saying that blaster are broken ! You Moron ...

Will this do?
Or how about this?
This maybe?

Yes, my killboard does suck, and yes, those were terribly fit ships, but I DO fly blaster boats, as well as ACs, and lasers

Tbh, I have no trouble using blaster boats, even being the terrible PvPer I am.

I have an idea though, lets just make all turrets have the same range, tracking, and damage of each other. Maybe we can make all the ships fly the same speed and have the same slot layouts while we're at it
Tac Mannall
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-11-07 18:05:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tac Mannall
Cipher Jones wrote:
Only people who don't fly all 4 races say "nerf AC's".

Everybody who does say "buff hybrids".

Macharaiel is OP, however its tracking bonus is huge, and does not apply to all AC's.

Learn to kite.

And with 2 webs on it, even blasters could hit it.


"Learn to kite" With Blasters? Are, are you trolling or just really not paying attention? :p

The real issue with Hybrids, or I should say Blasters specifically is that they are designed by concept to be point blank death dealers. What is happening now is that they are being overshadowed in their own niche by other races. I think that is what is making a lot of us upset. Also I think it is more of a combination of blasters and the hulls that fit them that needs to be tweeked, not one or the other exclusively.
Vmir Gallahasen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-11-07 18:15:04 UTC
Austneal wrote:
Yes, my killboard does suck, and yes, those were terribly fit ships, but I DO fly blaster boats, as well as ACs, and lasers

Yes, killing two ships using a drone boat with a drone listed as the weapon is proof of you flying blaster boats. Well done. There are pages and pages and pages of you flying Winmatar though

Credibility destroyed
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#30 - 2011-11-07 23:29:02 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Only people who don't fly all 4 races say "nerf AC's".

Everybody who does say "buff hybrids".

Macharaiel is OP, however its tracking bonus is huge, and does not apply to all AC's.

Learn to kite.

And with 2 webs on it, even blasters could hit it.



WTF is this ****? Go crawl back in your cave you uneducated minmatar redneck.
Alexandria Aesirial
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2011-11-08 00:28:43 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Austneal wrote:

Each weapon has its own advantage, learn to use them / fight against them


You didnt fly any blaster boat right ? If yes show KB.. Coz you talking like shyittty noob.. Learn how to fly wtf ? You dont know too much about this game its history and why blaster sucks so hard right now ? Dont you ? Even CCP is saying that blaster are broken ! You Moron ...

Yeah, they are broken... Tell me a ship that can do what Gods coldblood does with a vindi?

It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp.
Baraka Saibot
Wobbling Frog Inc
#32 - 2011-11-08 00:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Baraka Saibot
Hungry Eyes wrote:
I'll give one example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuf_JzAkq7E

Please reduce the fall-off and tracking of medium and large AC's. You don't have to nerf them into the ground, but make them not stupid. Having extreme fall off, extreme speed, extreme tracking, and higher than average DPS is not conducive to balance.

Thanks, I'll know you'll do the right thing.


Lasers, both long and short range guns have better DPS and range, long range have better tracking, and short range have better alpha.
Alexandria Aesirial
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2011-11-08 00:49:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexandria Aesirial
Hungry Eyes wrote:
I'll give one example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuf_JzAkq7E

In its current iteration, the Tornado is making a mockery of most other ships in the game, especially the other tier 3 BC's. It's kind of hilarious to me that large AC's can perfectly track and hit Vespa drones Shocked and inties Shocked. Sure, he had two webs, but still. Why would you introduce a cheap, faster and more agile Machariel into the game? But the problem is not necessarily the ship. AC's are simply off the wall.

Please reduce the fall-off and tracking of medium and large AC's. You don't have to nerf them into the ground, but make them not stupid. Having extreme fall off, extreme speed, extreme tracking, and higher than average DPS is not conducive to balance. It's really not that different from they days when people released a bunch of drones, and zipped around at 4km/s in their HACs.

Thanks, I'll know you'll do the right thing.

I just wanted to state the obvious. Blasters currently have better tracking than projectiles across the board so your point is ******* mute. The tornado as well as the oracle will continue to dominate medium range engagements and that's their intended use. Live with it. I killed tornados with my oracle while I was on sisi so I can't see where your coming from other than the regular nerf minnie intention. Nothing new here...move on.

It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp.
Vmir Gallahasen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-11-08 00:54:19 UTC
Alexandria Aesirial wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Austneal wrote:

Each weapon has its own advantage, learn to use them / fight against them


You didnt fly any blaster boat right ? If yes show KB.. Coz you talking like shyittty noob.. Learn how to fly wtf ? You dont know too much about this game its history and why blaster sucks so hard right now ? Dont you ? Even CCP is saying that blaster are broken ! You Moron ...

Yeah, they are broken... Tell me a ship that can do what Gods coldblood does with a vindi?

Yes, because a faction battleship with 50% more damage bonus than normal, an extra turret, 50% more EHP and a 90% web bonus is juuuuust like a regular blaster boat
Alexandria Aesirial
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2011-11-08 00:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexandria Aesirial
Vmir Gallahasen wrote:
Alexandria Aesirial wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Austneal wrote:

Each weapon has its own advantage, learn to use them / fight against them


You didnt fly any blaster boat right ? If yes show KB.. Coz you talking like shyittty noob.. Learn how to fly wtf ? You dont know too much about this game its history and why blaster sucks so hard right now ? Dont you ? Even CCP is saying that blaster are broken ! You Moron ...

Yeah, they are broken... Tell me a ship that can do what Gods coldblood does with a vindi?

Yes, because a faction battleship with 50% more damage bonus than normal, an extra turret, 50% more EHP and a 90% web bonus is juuuuust like a regular blaster boat

As long as it's been proven to be plausible your point remains mute. If you didn't know, other factions have uber ships too and none can match the vindi except from the bhaal and it's debatable.
I doubt you even play this game. The vindi deals 50% more dps than a mega???? where did you drop from? homeworld?

It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-11-08 01:16:02 UTC
there are 3 ways to fix blasters (and, by extension, hybrids as a whole):

A) make them behave like AC's

B) make blasters ships more mobile than matari ships (and a fair bit of damage added to them blasters too)

C) remove the entire hybrid weaponry from game, gallente now only use drones and caldari only use missiles. SP refund from hybrid skills removal.




A is bleh, B would divide the community, C is the easiest, and, as of late, considering how everybody is behaving about this, the best solution.

at the very least it would allow me to sigh and move on instead defending option B.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2011-11-08 01:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivus Tao
Newsflash: Pretty much anything can track intys and drones when dual webbed, especially with clever use of transversal. Part of the reason they nerfed webs down was so that you practically require two, sacrificing tank or utility to achieve this effect. The oracle does pretty much the same thing, as does the talos (when in range) or the naga when fit with hybrids. Using this as a primary reasoning for nerfing brings us to nerfing practically everything because everything can in fact do this.

Next you'll be saying nerf lazors, rails, and arty because they can instapop an inty with zero transversal at 150km+.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2011-11-08 01:22:27 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
there are 3 ways to fix blasters (and, by extension, hybrids as a whole):

A) make them behave like AC's

B) make blasters ships more mobile than matari ships (and a fair bit of damage added to them blasters too)

C) remove the entire hybrid weaponry from game, gallente now only use drones and caldari only use missiles. SP refund from hybrid skills removal.




A is bleh, B would divide the community, C is the easiest, and, as of late, considering how everybody is behaving about this, the best solution.

at the very least it would allow me to sigh and move on instead defending option B.



finally, someone sane in my thread.
Alexandria Aesirial
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2011-11-08 01:30:05 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
there are 3 ways to fix blasters (and, by extension, hybrids as a whole):

A) make them behave like AC's

B) make blasters ships more mobile than matari ships (and a fair bit of damage added to them blasters too)

C) remove the entire hybrid weaponry from game, gallente now only use drones and caldari only use missiles. SP refund from hybrid skills removal.




A is bleh, B would divide the community, C is the easiest, and, as of late, considering how everybody is behaving about this, the best solution.

at the very least it would allow me to sigh and move on instead defending option B.

I know that hybrids can still fit in and I'll wait for the changes to be implemented on TQ before saying anything. CCP tallest said it himself that more buffs could be on the way depending on the feedback he gets from this patch.
It's all annoying when some random dude starts blabbing like nothing is being done

It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp.
KLizMaN
Stark Innovations
#40 - 2011-11-08 01:34:24 UTC  |  Edited by: KLizMaN
A few nerf posts coming from you; first Tengu now AC's


So your going against your previous post; lasers, ac's, and missiles are balanced

To quote you..
"No matter how you buff these guns, they will always be inferior to pulses, AC's and missiles, which are balanced well."

Why would you want to nerf something that is in balance with two other systems.

AC's don't need to be nerfed. Blasters and blaster ships need to be buffed. I have faith CCP will continue to work on this until they release the winter expansion.

KLizMaN