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Suicide Ganking: coming to an end?

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Elson Tamar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#901 - 2011-11-10 18:43:46 UTC
Yes it's a good idea as insurance companies do not give money for criminal acts.
Will it change anything? No Destoyers are cheap enougth to explode without it braking the bank and if a large alliance is going to pay bounties on ganks they will still happen. It changes nothing but does make people happy as CCP is seen to do somthing.
Hell suicide ganks are part of the game which i and other 'carebears' need to deal with, thats a fact of eve life.
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#902 - 2011-11-11 11:03:38 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So it finally happened. Oh well.

I am not afraid of this change as much as I am afraid of the precedent this change sets. I shudder to think what the bears will clamor for next, when they realize that their massive gamble did not affect the overall volume of suicide-ganking.

The removal of empire wars and the addition of a pvp flag can't be far behind.

QUICK! Wear your tinfoil hat! They're getting to you!

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#903 - 2011-11-11 11:37:26 UTC
Short answer, no.

http://www.machine9.net/blog/?p=663

We have Goonsurance now, it's better than insurance.
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#904 - 2011-11-11 11:46:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Meatbag Pussrocket wrote:
What do you think: is this the end of suicide ganking as we know it, or the beginning of something more devious?
It had better not be, or they'll need to massively nerf CONCORD to make ganking much easier than it is right now.



:notsureifserious:
ZedMiner110224
Gem Concordance
#905 - 2011-11-12 19:42:12 UTC
Ultima Online started out with a "all PvP flagged all the time" except in town design.

They lasted less than 2 years before they saw some serious playerbase erosion start due to the excessive amount of ganking and harrassment.

The only reason Ultima Online SURVIVED is they came up with the "no forced PvP" Tramell shards - and then watched over 80% of their EXISTING playerbase migrate to those shards in the first 6 months they existed, despite having to petition to get manually transfered to them at the time (IIRC UO implimented a "move yourself" mechanic eventually with some serious limitations on it).


Eve online was a MICROSCOPIC in userbase MMORG before highsec. Due to the fact Highsec STILL allows non-consentual PvP ganking and harrassment, Eve STILL has a problem with new player retention.


Hint to all of you "force PvP down everyone's throats" fans. The LARGE majority of MMORG players have ZERO interest in that sort of thing. Just because YOU like it does not mean it's good for the game or the SURVIVAL of the game. Even MMORGS that are almost TOTALLY PvP-centric like Lineage have "no PvP" areas.


IMO one of the few things WoW does WELL is it's "PvP flagged" system. Lets those that are WILLING to risk PvP do so while not FORCING it on those that don't like PvP, have NO INTEREST in PvP, and hate having PvP forced on them. SOme of us want to play vs. the GAME, not get harrassed all the time by PvP-centric types.



IMO suicide ganking has a place in the game - but it's WAY too easy even AFTER the changes that have been made in the mechanics over the years - and along with related "harrass folks" and "screw newbies" methods like can flipping it's one of the things that keeps Eve SMALL enough to fit on one server.



Don't get me started on why LowSec is a wasteland with almost ZERO playerbase that bothers with it. Risk vs. reward for lowsec is so far out of whack I'm often supprised ANYONE bothers with lowsec at all.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#906 - 2011-11-12 19:46:50 UTC
ZedMiner110224 wrote:
Ultima Online started out with a "all PvP flagged all the time" except in town design.

They lasted less than 2 years before they saw some serious playerbase erosion start due to the excessive amount of ganking and harrassment.




And after it was stopped, some Icelandic UO players thought that was lame and decided to make a game where players were free to decide for themselves. So began a little game you may have heard of, called EVE.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#907 - 2011-11-12 19:50:07 UTC
Helicity Boson wrote:
Short answer, no.

http://www.machine9.net/blog/?p=663

We have Goonsurance now, it's better than insurance.



add missioning ships and incursion runners lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#908 - 2011-11-14 18:54:10 UTC
I see that Goon and Company are moaning and crying once again about changes but then again anything that CCP does you guys just complain.

Heaven forbid someone says it but i will. in Real Life you commit a crime and get your nice shiny car wrecked in a police chase and arrested.....well good for you will become a prison **** while your insurance provider denies you your claim for illegal activity. OWNED!

Hell you should be happy you are able to still get your ship insured with your security rating. I be happy to deny those with neg ratings. Now that's an idea for CCP. Deial of Insurance due to security Rating. Insurance company would see you as a HIGH RISK will either higher rates or deny you.

But many of the changes everyone voted on. and the one with the most votes got put into affect. Don't like the out come so you whine like little 5 year old, Well then; LEAVE!

The game will improve on a scale CCP has not seen in years!

But seeing that the Goons are part of the CSM they will get some kind of kick back from someone

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#909 - 2011-11-15 00:46:18 UTC
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
The game will improve on a scale CCP has not seen in years!

I bet it would.

So, who's going to buy new ships and modules when they stop getting exploded?

Oh, I know! Maybe killboards will be replaced with ISKboards, which will keep track of the money and assets owned instead of the amount of ships destroyed.

Actually, that sounds pretty awesome. Anyone want to fleet up for an incursion?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#910 - 2011-11-15 01:33:40 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

In other words, things have barely changed at all, then? This whole thread is 45 pages of tears and drama over absolutely nothing?





You don't understand PVP. Lol

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#911 - 2011-11-15 02:57:29 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
ZedMiner110224 wrote:
Ultima Online started out with a "all PvP flagged all the time" except in town design.

They lasted less than 2 years before they saw some serious playerbase erosion start due to the excessive amount of ganking and harrassment.




And after it was stopped, some Icelandic UO players thought that was lame and decided to make a game where players were free to decide for themselves. So began a little game you may have heard of, called EVE.

SHUSH YOU!

FFS! Don't bring reality into this!


This isn't going to change the gank-game nearly as much as some people would like to think... And yes, hi-sec is *safer*, not "SAFE". It needs aggression, and combat.


Consensual or not.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
#912 - 2011-11-15 02:57:39 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So it finally happened. Oh well.

I am not afraid of this change as much as I am afraid of the precedent this change sets. I shudder to think what the bears will clamor for next, when they realize that their massive gamble did not affect the overall volume of suicide-ganking.

The removal of empire wars and the addition of a pvp flag can't be far behind.
That already happened with the policy change allowing dec shields and wardec shedding. Wardecs are 100% consensual these days.

So yes, if this turns out not to be a bug, it is indeed heading further down the wrong road…

Well, wars are still chugging along, but CCP is definitely treading the razor's edge. One more little nudge, and it will all come crashing down. Here, a little snippet from a mail I received very recently from one of our targets:

A Recent War Target wrote:
I would ask you to have your corp remove the dec as you will be wasting your money. I'd like you to look at this thread right here

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=22792&p=4

CCP stated no longer an exploit.

So yeah. You can dec every 24 hours, and we jump into alliance and out every 24. Your call. Makes no matter to me. We are still recruiting noobs, and industrial types. I get it that your guy's idea of pvp is to station camp, and blow up noobs with 3 weeks in game and such but I am not feeding you kills to pad your battleclinic stat's. This isn't some learning experience and your not trying to help us.

Balls in your court. Drop the dec and you only lose the money once and can likely find some easy target who doesn't know a damn thing about metagmaing or how game mechanics work presently. Or keep the decs rolling and we just keep losing them. Your isk, your choice.


I can't help but wonder how this forest would fare if all the predators disappeared...

***********************

Well Destiny your tears are delicious I must say. Looks like you were really outdone at your own game.
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
#913 - 2011-11-15 03:03:27 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
This makes ganking mining barges a little less profitable, and bigger targets a chunk less.

I hope they go the whole way, and remove insurance completely.

*******

I agree with you. Tight rope walking without a net is what Eve is supposed to be.

CCP should also get rid of crutches like local chat and "stop light" bubbles in zero.

Pilots should have to use scanners to find each other like a real spaceship game should be.

While they are at it they should add cloaks for POS. We cloak ships. Why not POS?
Then maybe small corps could move in on zero and operate for longer than it takes to light a cyno.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#914 - 2011-11-15 03:24:45 UTC
Comrade Commizzar wrote:
Well Destiny your tears are delicious I must say. Looks like you were really outdone at your own game.

Money set aside for a Tornado BPO plus enough minerals stockpiled for about 40 ME-0 runs; meta 2 guns, CX-2/LX-2.

I know you're thirsty and can't wait, but if you want to have your fill, can you at least wait until the February/March nerfs? I promise you at least a cup or two.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#915 - 2011-11-15 04:42:11 UTC
in answer to title, see sig.


I think not

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#916 - 2011-11-15 21:58:04 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We took the insurance out because having it was silly. It's like a double reward when you gank someone, you get their cargo and insurance. It won't stop suicide ganking, it just fixes something we haven't really felt made sense for a long time.


So insurance payout for wartime losses, being equally silly, will be nerfed yes?
Or is this just another nail in the coffin, another entry in CCP's Litany Of Failure?

I think we already know. Prepare for further redundancies.

ATX: The best of the rest.
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
#917 - 2011-11-15 22:07:07 UTC
Zowie Powers wrote:
So insurance payout for wartime losses, being equally silly, will be nerfed yes?
Or is this just another nail in the coffin, another entry in CCP's Litany Of Failure?

I think we already know. Prepare for further redundancies.


Good lord, put some sugar in your coffe. I mean seriously, it just can't be good for your health to be THAT bitter.

Or, as most people here like to say:

HTFU! Stop whining! Adapt or die! Darwinism at work.

Stop the spamming, not the scamming!
Imrik86
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#918 - 2011-11-16 17:05:51 UTC
1. Take your car to the weekend's destruction derby.
2. Wreck it.
3. Win the prize.
4. Go to the insurance company and get your paycheck.

That's how it worked before the patch. EVE's insurance should have been bankrupt for a long time already.

Hey CCP, why don't you make insurance player-based too?
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#919 - 2011-11-16 17:38:02 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
The game will improve on a scale CCP has not seen in years!

I bet it would.

So, who's going to buy new ships and modules when they stop getting exploded?

what happened in Eve so ships will not blow anymore?

rats forgot how to shoot to mission runner?
low-sec is no more present?
0.0 sov space became CONCORD controlled so no more alliances and blob-wars?
NPC 0.0 space is magically disapepared?

/me shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Nerodon
x Shinsengumi X
#920 - 2011-11-16 18:59:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
The game will improve on a scale CCP has not seen in years!

I bet it would.

So, who's going to buy new ships and modules when they stop getting exploded?


This is only because you assume that high-sec ganks account for the majority of ships being destroyed in Eve.
I believe the impact would be negligible even if all ganks were to cease from one day to another, and they most likely won't.

All this complaining about the market impact is either simply overly pessimistic, or unfounded and used as a sorry excuse to argument against the fact that this change is happening.