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Two years later: Walking in Stations

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Chance Harper
Doomheim
#541 - 2013-12-19 12:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Chance Harper
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:


Have you stopped to look at what you have suggested.

Bars - you propose booster-like drinks. You are aware by the time you have walked back to your ship, undocked, you will be a quarter of the way through your booster duration, and thats assuming the fight is right outside the undock. Sorry, useless. Especially when the booster is available on the market, without leaving the hanger, and isn't instantly consumed. All thats left is exactly what you decried him for mentioning, sitting in a bar for sittings sake.

Shops - what do you actually propose to sell? Prior to Incarna it was made clear that anything that made existing gameplay more difficult would not be acceptable, and anything that can be sold on the market invalidates a shop trying to sell it - absolutely no-one is going to trawl through 100-odd shops in Jita 4-4 station to get something that they can get on the market in one click. The big obvious that everyone talked about before Incarna stamped on that dream was clothes. It made sense, and was a good idea, Incarna gameplay to fold into Incarna itself. But CCP dropped the Nex hammer on that one, so no, player-created-and-sold clothes is now never going to happen without removing and rolling back Nex, and CCP wont be doing that. So, furniture for your shops, so you can sell furniture in your shops? Umm, thats a bit meta there.

Dancers - I'm going to restrain myself about the obvious joke to make here, but if all we are left with is pimping avatars, I think we are in trouble.


If it would have been implemented, then we already would have had boosters with incarna and not 2 years later. Did you see me say that anybody has to use the booster in the bar? some ppl seriously..

I give you right tho, the shops would have been useless. What is wrong with trawling around a station? Specially if it would have windows and would be filled with other ppl? It would make the whole game make feel more alive. About the dancers, that is just an idea like the 100 of other ideas that were posted with time. You know some people atleast make the effort to come up with things to try to make EvE an all around better experience for everybody. Things that could atract new players. I know atleast 20 people who would play eve if there would be more avatar interaction. Now sum this up with the amount of people who play eve and how many people they know who would play eve, if it would have more avatar interaction.
And btw the dancers is not my idea, if you watch some of the videos from back then when WiS was presented, you will notice that the Devs put the dancers in the bar, just saying.

So yeah instead of being so narrow minded and think that everything what ppl say comes only from the players. You should do some research on what ideas the Devs all had for WiS.
Not everybody is happy with just doing the one and only thing in this great sandbox... flying ships and then fly some more ships to destroy ships, so you can fly ships to mine minerals to build ships.
There is soo much more that could be done to make EvE bigger and better. EvE is a universe and not just a backyard spaceship pew pew. So why not make it a living universe?

If you look at the EvE Universe, its a dead universe, you see nothing living. The only thing that comes close to show life are the rouge drones with their moving parts. Yes space is cold and dead but this is a Sci-Fi game with endless opportunities and not a real life simulator.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#542 - 2013-12-19 12:14:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:

You are aware by the time you have walked back to your ship, undocked, you will be a quarter of the way through your booster duration, and thats assuming the fight is right outside the undock. Sorry, useless. Especially when the booster is available on the market, without leaving the hanger, and isn't instantly consumed. All thats left is exactly what you decried him for mentioning, sitting in a bar for sittings sake.


I agree with the theme of the post, and most of the points but there are a few in there that I think needs addressing. The boosters sold in bars in stations could be a new booster, something that gives you benefits that you don't need to be undocked to recieve, such as market skill boosts, manufacturing or refining boosts. Or, they could boost some kind of gameplay we don't have yet, such as something on the slay table perhaps, or returns on bets. That said I don't like the idea of bars/shops/etc/crap like that. Frankly if corporations had 'Establishments', they could have a bar in it if they wanted but the whole promenade with shops and stores and bars is a pipe dream for technical reasons. There are ways around that, such as having people move directly from their CQ to their corporation's(or other corporation's) establishment, which could have the number of people allowed in limited in the same way that our systems do.

I don't agree on the idea of shops, simply because the market interface is good enough as it is. So, I agree mostly. But it's not an impossible idea. That said, I personally think if they do decide to dedicate some time to WiS they should start with the Avatar exploration prototype they created and then maybe move onto establishments after there is already some gameplay to support.

Chance Harper wrote:
You know some people atleast make the effort to come up with things to try to make EvE an all around better experience for everybody.


Don't be pissed at people for shooting down bad ideas. That process is as equally important (arguably more important when there is an abundance of ideas). Similar to the fundamental principles behind science. You shoot down every idea that you can, and the ones that are remaining are the ones that are the best and deserve to carry on.

Edit: This post is all over the damn place. Might have to summarize what I think the good ideas are and what are not at some point.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
#543 - 2013-12-19 13:22:30 UTC
One thing remember about shops and bars in stations, is that most stations now are virtually empty.
Most likely the trade hubs will be overcrowded (and overpriced), some minor hubs will be moderately populated and a lot of stations (I' m guessing more than half) will be empty. A possible solution could be to open only one or two corporations per faction and perhaps SOE to WiS.

There should be enough exiting and unique content that can only be done in stations to keep them interesting. Stations should not be safe. The risk vs. reward paradigm of EVE should play here also. You should be able to make or lose a lot of ISK in stations through gambling, fighting, smuggling,...
WiS should not become a carebear environment.

For that to happen, it would be best to take a gradual approach. No halleluyah expansion of half decent features.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#544 - 2013-12-19 13:35:11 UTC
Except I do see many people in these threads suggesting that this interactive and social aspect is specifically what they want and why avatar gameplay would be a good idea.

If you aren't one of those people, then my comment isn't addressed to you.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Hemi DarkStar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#545 - 2013-12-19 13:36:11 UTC
How about adding these only in stations/systems like Jita and Amarr etc. And go from there?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#546 - 2013-12-19 13:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Chance Harper wrote:

Back then before Incarna ccp themselfs brought up a couple of good ideas you could do.
To start with the bar. There would be free rooms on each station which you could rent and turn into what you want. A bar, a store or whatever. These Shops or bars need equipment, furniture, consumable items and so forth. this would have open up more functions to other already existing professions in the game.
Manufacturers would have had a wider variety of producable items. As store or bar owner you would have had options to make and sell drinks, which gives you boosts just like the boosters do now. Instead of pills it would have been drinks.
You would have been able to hire dancers, which in return could have earn money with getting tips for dancing.


These are all things people could do, instead of trying to make a new record in shipspinning or waiting for their mining alts cargo to fill up.


Have you stopped to look at what you have suggested.

Bars - you propose booster-like drinks. You are aware by the time you have walked back to your ship, undocked, you will be a quarter of the way through your booster duration, and thats assuming the fight is right outside the undock. Sorry, useless. Especially when the booster is available on the market, without leaving the hanger, and isn't instantly consumed. All thats left is exactly what you decried him for mentioning, sitting in a bar for sittings sake.

Shops - what do you actually propose to sell? Prior to Incarna it was made clear that anything that made existing gameplay more difficult would not be acceptable, and anything that can be sold on the market invalidates a shop trying to sell it - absolutely no-one is going to trawl through 100-odd shops in Jita 4-4 station to get something that they can get on the market in one click. The big obvious that everyone talked about before Incarna stamped on that dream was clothes. It made sense, and was a good idea, Incarna gameplay to fold into Incarna itself. But CCP dropped the Nex hammer on that one, so no, player-created-and-sold clothes is now never going to happen without removing and rolling back Nex, and CCP wont be doing that. So, furniture for your shops, so you can sell furniture in your shops? Umm, thats a bit meta there.

Dancers - I'm going to restrain myself about the obvious joke to make here, but if all we are left with is pimping avatars, I think we are in trouble.

Your post made me want to set up a shop in game to sell Imaginations. I'd sell bright ones, fun ones, interesting ones, smart ones, imaginations with polka dots and little bells that tinkle, you could be my first customer and trade yours in for one of the above...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#547 - 2013-12-19 13:53:11 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Your post made me want to set up a shop in game to sell Imaginations. I'd sell bright ones, fun ones, interesting ones, smart ones, imaginations with polka dots and little bells that tinkle, you could be my first customer and trade yours in for one of the above...


I consider this post my Xmas present from Infinity, and in return I have liked it

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#548 - 2013-12-19 13:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Hemi DarkStar wrote:
How about adding these only in stations/systems like Jita and Amarr etc. And go from there?


The best solution I can think of is that player owned 'Establishments' would have to be bought and rented by players or corporations and wouldn't exist otherwise. A bit like corp offices are now. There shouldn't be any NPC owned interior areas.

Varius Xeral wrote:
Except I do see many people in these threads suggesting that this interactive and social aspect is specifically what they want and why avatar gameplay would be a good idea.

If you aren't one of those people, then my comment isn't addressed to you.


Sitting at a bar doing nothing is not an interactive social aspect and no one is asking to sit at a bar staring into space and talking in a chat box. The fleet UI, corporations, alliances, standing, and public createble chat channels are interactive social tools which add a great deal to the game. Almost everyone asking for a social WiS model want functional additions to the game that promote social interaction. Not a bar where they stair into space. The fact that they might want a bar doesn't exclude the want for functional content relating to it.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#549 - 2013-12-19 14:03:06 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Your post made me want to set up a shop in game to sell Imaginations. I'd sell bright ones, fun ones, interesting ones, smart ones, imaginations with polka dots and little bells that tinkle, you could be my first customer and trade yours in for one of the above...


I consider this post my Xmas present from Infinity, and in return I have liked it



I liked it too, and now I feel unclean. Good thing is WiS will have showers so your girl avatar can help my girl avatar not be unclean.....

Damn, did I just stumble on the one and only possible justification for WiS or what?
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#550 - 2013-12-19 14:04:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Damn, did I just stumble on the one and only possible justification for WiS or what?


If you think computer game p*rn is the only possible justification for Avatar content then I think your worse than most of the people your criticizing.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#551 - 2013-12-19 14:06:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


I liked it too, and now I feel unclean. Good thing is WiS will have showers so your girl avatar can help my girl avatar not be unclean.....



Im extremely not that way inclined, sorry

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#552 - 2013-12-19 14:07:30 UTC
Arduemont wrote:

If you think computer game p*rn is the only possible justification for Avatar content then I think your worse than most of the people your criticizing.


She was making a joke, you grumpy gus

Geez

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#553 - 2013-12-19 14:09:00 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:

She was making a joke, you grumpy gus

Geez


Grumpy, and blowing up people's spaceships, is what I do. I consider this post a compliment and therefore you get a like.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#554 - 2013-12-19 14:10:15 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:

She was making a joke, you grumpy gus

Geez


Grumpy, and blowing up people's spaceships, is what I do. I consider this post a compliment and therefore you get a like.


Um thanks

*pin*

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Chance Harper
Doomheim
#555 - 2013-12-19 14:34:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Your post made me want to set up a shop in game to sell Imaginations. I'd sell bright ones, fun ones, interesting ones, smart ones, imaginations with polka dots and little bells that tinkle, you could be my first customer and trade yours in for one of the above...


Only if you sell Unicorns that have stars and rainbows comming out of their arse when they fart. :)
Chance Harper
Doomheim
#556 - 2013-12-19 14:43:39 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Except I do see many people in these threads suggesting that this interactive and social aspect is specifically what they want and why avatar gameplay would be a good idea.

If you aren't one of those people, then my comment isn't addressed to you.


No that is not the only thing i would like to see on WiS. Imagine having a war going on and somebody tries to hide on station, so you dock up get out your ship find the person and put a bullet between his eyes. Same could go for bounty hunting. That possibility would also be the end for the noob bashers who play the docking game. You just dock too and put some holes in the person and loot his bloody corpse. "oh those are some nice sunglasses, thx" XD

You could have autoguns all over the station in high sec, so there would be the same security granted as in space with concord. Just because most WiS fans come up with the most obvious ideas if they think about avatars, which would be socializing. that doesnt means thats the only thing they want. ;)
Notorious Fellon
#557 - 2013-12-19 14:54:00 UTC
Chance Harper wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
Except I do see many people in these threads suggesting that this interactive and social aspect is specifically what they want and why avatar gameplay would be a good idea.

If you aren't one of those people, then my comment isn't addressed to you.


No that is not the only thing i would like to see on WiS. Imagine having a war going on and somebody tries to hide on station, so you dock up get out your ship find the person and put a bullet between his eyes. Same could go for bounty hunting. That possibility would also be the end for the noob bashers who play the docking game. You just dock too and put some holes in the person and loot his bloody corpse. "oh those are some nice sunglasses, thx" XD

You could have autoguns all over the station in high sec, so there would be the same security granted as in space with concord. Just because most WiS fans come up with the most obvious ideas if they think about avatars, which would be socializing. that doesnt means thats the only thing they want. ;)



And this is just one of the ideas that make WiS worth thinking about. I have easily seen a dozen good ideas that would make WiS integral to the game and only enhance the spaceship side.

Too bad the trolls are too busy talking about hawt avatar on avatar action. Funny that those supporting WiS are least likely to bring up avatar porn, and those who don't want it always seem to bring it up.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#558 - 2013-12-19 14:57:55 UTC
Chance Harper wrote:
. You just dock too and put some holes in the person and loot his bloody corpse. "oh those are some nice sunglasses, thx" XD


I need your cloths, your boots, and your motorcycle.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#559 - 2013-12-19 15:00:44 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:


Too bad the trolls are too busy talking about hawt avatar on avatar action. Funny that those supporting WiS are least likely to bring up avatar ****, and those who don't want it always seem to bring it up.


Go call other people names

Ive given plenty of ideas

Most of them better than your slops

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#560 - 2013-12-19 15:00:53 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Chance Harper wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
Except I do see many people in these threads suggesting that this interactive and social aspect is specifically what they want and why avatar gameplay would be a good idea.

If you aren't one of those people, then my comment isn't addressed to you.


No that is not the only thing i would like to see on WiS. Imagine having a war going on and somebody tries to hide on station, so you dock up get out your ship find the person and put a bullet between his eyes. Same could go for bounty hunting. That possibility would also be the end for the noob bashers who play the docking game. You just dock too and put some holes in the person and loot his bloody corpse. "oh those are some nice sunglasses, thx" XD

You could have autoguns all over the station in high sec, so there would be the same security granted as in space with concord. Just because most WiS fans come up with the most obvious ideas if they think about avatars, which would be socializing. that doesnt means thats the only thing they want. ;)



And this is just one of the ideas that make WiS worth thinking about. I have easily seen a dozen good ideas that would make WiS integral to the game and only enhance the spaceship side.

Too bad the trolls are too busy talking about hawt avatar on avatar action. Funny that those supporting WiS are least likely to bring up avatar ****, and those who don't want it always seem to bring it up.


It's not surprising in the least that you people can't take a joke.