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Balancing Feedback: Capital Ships

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Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#381 - 2011-11-18 13:41:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Phunnestyle wrote:
A Lion cub wouldn't learn to hunt & kill from a snail
So why should some one who does not understand mechanics in question & have no more experience than "Ohhh they hotdropped me" have a viable resounding say in whats best for the Super nerf. I have given a quote above on this page, that is what needs to be done,black an white,easy do it. Listen to the Super Pilots.


Get off your elitist shithole.

I agree with him.

Adapt or die.

The only issue I'm going back on is the inability to carry a full compliment of fighters and bombers, opposed to having to sacrifice several.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#382 - 2011-11-18 13:54:28 UTC
Phunnestyle wrote:
Listen to the Super Pilots.


That looks like a good idea at first right ?

Let me put it that way :

Let politicians determinate their salary.

If you asked me how to nerf my Machariel, I would have told you "Reduce it's scan resolution, nerf the drone bandwidth to 50mb/s, remove the 8th utility slot and done :D"

I can understand that super pilots know how are their ships behaving. But you also have to be on the receiving end of a supercapital fleet to know what is the most handicapping feature (vs subcaps) supers have.

Usually, superpilots fly supers in a blob (With no risk of loosing anything), or solo (With no risk apart from being counterhotdrop, and it doesn't happen very often, or if a lone dictor manage to delay your "warp to safe and cloack" moment). Why ? Because you won't engage a 80 men fleet with 3 supercarriers. You'll either bring those 3 supercarriers with a full fleet at jump range, or you'll bring the usual 40 men supercap fleet to avoid any loss. Or you'll sologank a carrier with an awoxer/neutral alt. I'm not saying "You're dishonourable", I'm saying that it's the way supers are used, because there is no other "realistic" way to use them.

If you're one of those superpilots, then you don't fly subcaps anymore (For "serious business fleets", you'll fly subcaps for fun roams and all that ofc) because you can't loose your supercarrier (Except if you do a stupid mistake).

That means, you're not on the receiving end, and you can only imagine (Same goes for peoples on the receiving end, they don't fly supercaps, they can only imagine, right ?) how terrible and boring it is to try to fight supers.
Phunnestyle
Doomheim
#383 - 2011-11-18 13:55:00 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
A Lion cub wouldn't learn to hunt & kill from a snail
So why should some one who does not understand mechanics in question & have no more experience than "Ohhh they hotdropped me" have a viable resounding say in whats best for the Super nerf. I have given a quote above on this page, that is what needs to be done,black an white,easy do it. Listen to the Super Pilots.


Get off your elitist shithole.

I agree with him.

Adapt or die.

The only issue I'm going back on is the inability to carry a full compliment of fighters and bombers, opposed to having to sacrifice several.


Thank you dear Sir Logic is agreeable =)
Phunnestyle
Doomheim
#384 - 2011-11-18 14:06:43 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
Listen to the Super Pilots.


That looks like a good idea at first right ?

Let me put it that way :

Let politicians determinate their salary.

If you asked me how to nerf my Machariel, I would have told you "Reduce it's scan resolution, nerf the drone bandwidth to 50mb/s, remove the 8th utility slot and done :D"

I can understand that super pilots know how are their ships behaving. But you also have to be on the receiving end of a supercapital fleet to know what is the most handicapping feature (vs subcaps) supers have.

Usually, superpilots fly supers in a blob (With no risk of loosing anything), or solo (With no risk apart from being counterhotdrop, and it doesn't happen very often, or if a lone dictor manage to delay your "warp to safe and cloack" moment). Why ? Because you won't engage a 80 men fleet with 3 supercarriers. You'll either bring those 3 supercarriers with a full fleet at jump range, or you'll bring the usual 40 men supercap fleet to avoid any loss. Or you'll sologank a carrier with an awoxer/neutral alt. I'm not saying "You're dishonourable", I'm saying that it's the way supers are used, because there is no other "realistic" way to use them.

If you're one of those superpilots, then you don't fly subcaps anymore (For "serious business fleets", you'll fly subcaps for fun roams and all that ofc) because you can't loose your supercarrier (Except if you do a stupid mistake).

That means, you're not on the receiving end, and you can only imagine (Same goes for peoples on the receiving end, they don't fly supercaps, they can only imagine, right ?) how terrible and boring it is to try to fight supers.


Wrong wrong & wrong again. I would love to teach you, but a decent Super pilot does not use a single ship AKA Supercarrier, why should we be limited to waiting for a ping. I understand your confussion as you do come from Goons LOL, but we do have multiple accounts for specialized toons, so we expeierence & carry on unto this day exeperiencing all forms of pvp. & if you have trouble either fighting or getting past 1 Supercarrier camping a gate then you should quite EVE right now, Supers even now are relatively easy to kill. For example 40 canes would take a matter of several minutes to kill a wyvern, newt it out & it loses a huge chunk of EHP..
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#385 - 2011-11-18 14:25:44 UTC
Phunnestyle wrote:

Wrong wrong & wrong again. I would love to teach you, but a decent Super pilot does not use a single ship AKA Supercarrier, why should we be limited to waiting for a ping. I understand your confussion as you do come from Goons LOL, but we do have multiple accounts for specialized toons, so we expeierence & carry on unto this day exeperiencing all forms of pvp. & if you have trouble either fighting or getting past 1 Supercarrier camping a gate then you should quite EVE right now, Supers even now are relatively easy to kill. For example 40 canes would take a matter of several minutes to kill a wyvern, newt it out & it loses a huge chunk of EHP..


Dude, when you're in a supercarrier heavy alliance, like Pandemic Legion. What's the point of using 80 Tengus when you can roll around cruising with your 60 supers ? You can loose 80 Tengus. You can't really loose 60 supers.
For serious business alliance stuff, supers will be preferred over everything else. Why would you use a rocket launcher against a building when you can unleash a nuclear strike on it ? Especially when the building is some sort of super important objective. You won't take a smaller ship "because it's funnier". You'll take the biggest, baddest warmachine you can find and throw it at the enemies.

That's for the first part.

No, I have no troubles getting past one supercarrier camping a gate, thank you for worrying.

And yes, killing one wyvern is quite easy right ?

Now, try to fight 50 supers.

You have 12 titans, 25 supercarriers and 13 carriers.

You can't neut, the neuted supercarrier/titan will receive cap from carriers. You can't kite, they use drones. You can't jam, they are invulnerable to that (And before you tell me this, you can't reliably jam 13 carriers and neut one supercarrier in the mean time. Other supercarriers can rep the neuted supercarrier too). You can't snipe them (What's the point ?). You can't keep them tackled because the hundreds of valkyries and such will wreck any heavy interdictor/dictor. You can't have logistics nor command ships in your fleet, they will be instantly popped by either Doomsday or regular drones.

A lone supercarrier isn't a problem (I mean, you can steamroll a single supercarrier with like 20 Tempest and a Sabre). A group of 40 supers is what doesn't have a counter apart than bringing more supercarrier and more subcap until the node crash.

Oh and supers are basicly invulnerable in lowsec, because you need an Hdictor with a focused point to keep them tackled. Dictors won't help.

And I forgot about Remote ECM bursts. You'll loose your lock every 20 seconds. Make it 1m30 with the lag (A huge subcapfleet, + hordes of drones from the supers).
Lucius Razor
RazorEnterprise
#386 - 2011-11-18 14:26:30 UTC
Phunnestyle wrote:
SMT008 wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
Listen to the Super Pilots.


That looks like a good idea at first right ?

Let me put it that way :

Let politicians determinate their salary.

If you asked me how to nerf my Machariel, I would have told you "Reduce it's scan resolution, nerf the drone bandwidth to 50mb/s, remove the 8th utility slot and done :D"

I can understand that super pilots know how are their ships behaving. But you also have to be on the receiving end of a supercapital fleet to know what is the most handicapping feature (vs subcaps) supers have.

Usually, superpilots fly supers in a blob (With no risk of loosing anything), or solo (With no risk apart from being counterhotdrop, and it doesn't happen very often, or if a lone dictor manage to delay your "warp to safe and cloack" moment). Why ? Because you won't engage a 80 men fleet with 3 supercarriers. You'll either bring those 3 supercarriers with a full fleet at jump range, or you'll bring the usual 40 men supercap fleet to avoid any loss. Or you'll sologank a carrier with an awoxer/neutral alt. I'm not saying "You're dishonourable", I'm saying that it's the way supers are used, because there is no other "realistic" way to use them.

If you're one of those superpilots, then you don't fly subcaps anymore (For "serious business fleets", you'll fly subcaps for fun roams and all that ofc) because you can't loose your supercarrier (Except if you do a stupid mistake).

That means, you're not on the receiving end, and you can only imagine (Same goes for peoples on the receiving end, they don't fly supercaps, they can only imagine, right ?) how terrible and boring it is to try to fight supers.


Wrong wrong & wrong again. I would love to teach you, but a decent Super pilot does not use a single ship AKA Supercarrier, why should we be limited to waiting for a ping. I understand your confussion as you do come from Goons LOL, but we do have multiple accounts for specialized toons, so we expeierence & carry on unto this day exeperiencing all forms of pvp. & if you have trouble either fighting or getting past 1 Supercarrier camping a gate then you should quite EVE right now, Supers even now are relatively easy to kill. For example 40 canes would take a matter of several minutes to kill a wyvern, newt it out & it loses a huge chunk of EHP..



If you dont belive this, just go to testserver. Even before the nerf a lone SC was killed in a matter of mins by a ragtag fleet.

The problem never ws the supers in the first place. And tbh.: I did use my other char with his normal fleet BS way more often than the super. Because most of the time supers simply stay on standby. The fights are done by battleships. This was so and will hardly ever change.
What will change thou is the fact that in future people will simply stop using capitals, because there will be no point in using them. Risk VS Reward and Skilltime VS Advantage gained have allready been of for Caps. After this, no one sane will invest the time for caps, and expecially not for supercaps.
Roger Soros
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#387 - 2011-11-18 14:29:58 UTC
StukaBee wrote:
Roger Soros wrote:
Supers are op because there is too many of them, boost their price and manufacturing time to a level that a big alliance like red or goons whould efford only a small fleet of them like 2-3 titan and 10-15 moms problem solved.


We, and every other major alliance have that amount of supercaps several times over, so all your suggestion does is hinder other, newer alliances from building their own supercap fleet to catch up.


First supers are never intended to be small alliance, single corp or single player assets, they should belong only to those that have the resources and space to build them.
Second you maybe right in the short period but if a titan cost 540b and take a whole year to be produced intested of 50b and 8 weaks and a mom 150b intested of 15b even an alliance as big as goons cannot have enought resource to massproduce them and more importantly if you loose them you cannot replace them as fast as it is now.
The current nerf will only be effective until the number of supers reach another breakdown point, because there is no limit to how many ship you can bring in battle but the servers have a limit and goons have proved this many time.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#388 - 2011-11-18 14:35:13 UTC
Lucius Razor wrote:
What will change thou is the fact that in future people will simply stop using capitals, because there will be no point in using them. Risk VS Reward and Skilltime VS Advantage gained have allready been of for Caps. After this, no one sane will invest the time for caps, and expecially not for supercaps.


Caps were used before supers, they will be used again.

Supers were used before the buff, they will still be used.

The people you will not see using SCs are those that liked prodding around lowsec solo. You won't see 10-20 of them hotdropping a small fleet without support.

You will see more ratting SCs die.
You will see more SCs dying in fleets to dreads and BS, as well as Tier 3 BC.
You will see dread and carrier kills increase.
You will see those dreads and carriers used even more than before.


You will see a thinning of the herd.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Roboticus420
Bomber Stelka Dva Titana
#389 - 2011-11-18 14:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Roboticus420
Lucius Razor wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
SMT008 wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
Listen to the Super Pilots.


That looks like a good idea at first right ?

Let me put it that way :

Let politicians determinate their salary.

If you asked me how to nerf my Machariel, I would have told you "Reduce it's scan resolution, nerf the drone bandwidth to 50mb/s, remove the 8th utility slot and done :D"

I can understand that super pilots know how are their ships behaving. But you also have to be on the receiving end of a supercapital fleet to know what is the most handicapping feature (vs subcaps) supers have.

Usually, superpilots fly supers in a blob (With no risk of loosing anything), or solo (With no risk apart from being counterhotdrop, and it doesn't happen very often, or if a lone dictor manage to delay your "warp to safe and cloack" moment). Why ? Because you won't engage a 80 men fleet with 3 supercarriers. You'll either bring those 3 supercarriers with a full fleet at jump range, or you'll bring the usual 40 men supercap fleet to avoid any loss. Or you'll sologank a carrier with an awoxer/neutral alt. I'm not saying "You're dishonourable", I'm saying that it's the way supers are used, because there is no other "realistic" way to use them.

If you're one of those superpilots, then you don't fly subcaps anymore (For "serious business fleets", you'll fly subcaps for fun roams and all that ofc) because you can't loose your supercarrier (Except if you do a stupid mistake).

That means, you're not on the receiving end, and you can only imagine (Same goes for peoples on the receiving end, they don't fly supercaps, they can only imagine, right ?) how terrible and boring it is to try to fight supers.


Wrong wrong & wrong again. I would love to teach you, but a decent Super pilot does not use a single ship AKA Supercarrier, why should we be limited to waiting for a ping. I understand your confussion as you do come from Goons LOL, but we do have multiple accounts for specialized toons, so we expeierence & carry on unto this day exeperiencing all forms of pvp. & if you have trouble either fighting or getting past 1 Supercarrier camping a gate then you should quite EVE right now, Supers even now are relatively easy to kill. For example 40 canes would take a matter of several minutes to kill a wyvern, newt it out & it loses a huge chunk of EHP..



If you dont belive this, just go to testserver. Even before the nerf a lone SC was killed in a matter of mins by a ragtag fleet.

The problem never ws the supers in the first place. And tbh.: I did use my other char with his normal fleet BS way more often than the super. Because most of the time supers simply stay on standby. The fights are done by battleships. This was so and will hardly ever change.
What will change thou is the fact that in future people will simply stop using capitals, because there will be no point in using them. Risk VS Reward and Skilltime VS Advantage gained have allready been of for Caps. After this, no one sane will invest the time for caps, and expecially not for supercaps.


Ok Supers do need a nerf but as phunnstyles quote has indicataded, alot of what you say is true to an extent though. Majority of fights are done by Subcaps,they are involved in,if not initiate Super capitals engadgements.

SMT008 LOL just stop showing how ignorant you are. You ask why would we roll around in 80 Tengus if we have 60Supers. Yes again this is obvious. Supers as have been idicated above by this jolly old chap, are on stand by, they are not used to roll around in lol, if people do that, then it is inevitable that they are predictable/stupid & with time they lose there Supers as they get baited and counter hotdropped becuase of there predictableness. These are ofc principles of why Goons do not use Supers/Titans and have sold off a huge majority of there Supercapital fleet, they do not understand how or when to Use them. Hence they just give us fun times and shiney killmails =)
Roboticus420
Bomber Stelka Dva Titana
#390 - 2011-11-18 15:13:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Roboticus420
Phunnestyle wrote:
Phunnestyle wrote:
Ok heres what CCP have done right & you should be commended for it:

+ Pinging aggro timers,yes commit to the fight.
+ Limit Supercarrier to Fighters/Fighter Bombers

This is what CCP have done wrong, but never the less it is a small price to pay in consideration to other mistakes & is there by aggreable to accept:

+/- Reduction of HP on suppercarriers is basically for the haters, all that needed changing for at least the time being was the above 2 + points.

Now this is what CCP have done drastically wrong & needs changing immediately:

-Drone bays on suppercarriers need to be able to carry an optimal amount of both Fighters & Fighter Bombers. So in other words at least 20 Fighters & 20 Fighterbombers.
This is common sence & logical to all but the most stubborn of fools. While reducing Supers flexibility, you have overstepped your mark & made Supers limited in offencive ploys. For with this rediculious implimentation Supers will as has been said again & again, only be used after the winter patch with Fighters & target painters in the Mids. They will only use Fighters for the most obvious of reasons.
If they are to be intercepted by a Subcap fleet, it is primary among all else that they be at least able to give a fight back. So Fighter Bombers take & indeffinate back seat due to this patch failure. CCP need to acknowledge this failure as soon as possible & as stubborn as we know you are,you need to sort it out & inform us that you wish to sort this stupidity out. This you MUST do as you obviously don't want to give back the skill points intwined with the learning of the Fighter Bombers skill.




This quote is what im refering to, plz listen to it & better still do it
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#391 - 2011-11-18 15:28:18 UTC
Even Seleene, who made the current EHP buff while working for CCP, has stated the buff was too much of an increase.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#392 - 2011-11-18 15:39:58 UTC
Roboticus420 wrote:
they are not used to roll around in lol, if people do that, then it is inevitable that they are predictable/stupid & with time they lose there Supers as they get baited and counter hotdropped becuase of there predictableness.


I remember a time where the CFC had to literally choose which system to fight in (Read : choose which systems had cynojammers) in order to avoid being steamrolled by supercapitals.

Check PL's EVE kill page about ships & weapons used. I checked the last 6 months, there is at least the Nyx (With 500 to 1500 kills per month, usually) in the first 10 top used ships, sometimes the Aeon is 10th/9th.

Don't tell us this is only carrier/dread kills. It's clearly steamrolling on subcapfleets.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#393 - 2011-11-18 15:55:20 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Roboticus420 wrote:
they are not used to roll around in lol, if people do that, then it is inevitable that they are predictable/stupid & with time they lose there Supers as they get baited and counter hotdropped becuase of there predictableness.


I remember a time where the CFC had to literally choose which system to fight in (Read : choose which systems had cynojammers) in order to avoid being steamrolled by supercapitals.

Check PL's EVE kill page about ships & weapons used. I checked the last 6 months, there is at least the Nyx (With 500 to 1500 kills per month, usually) in the first 10 top used ships, sometimes the Aeon is 10th/9th.

Don't tell us this is only carrier/dread kills. It's clearly steamrolling on subcapfleets.



From a grunt in MM's perspective and not reflective of MV or MM:

We tried many times to bring subcap fleets into system engagements back in Tribute/Vale, only to face hundreds of supers instead of another subcap fleet. I can recall at least two times (JCV I believe and ZLZ... I suck at remembering system names) to where we had amassed a decent subcap fleet and even several supers ready on standby, only to be told to stand down and let it go- even with even numbers the ratio of supers to subcaps was so high that we couldn't stand a chance.

We lost the north, yes in part to becoming complacent and with many members inactive, but the largest factor was that even the "big and mighty NC" could not match the number of supers the DRF could muster.

Many just raised their hands in the air and said screw it... it's suicide to even bother.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
keuel
Imperium .H.E.M.P.
#394 - 2011-11-18 16:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: keuel
[Troll_mode_on] How about CCP just delete all Supers from game and reimbursse all pilots with SPs and ISK.
Or we can just roll back supers to the EHP level they were before (Scs with the double of the EHP of a carrier and titans with the double of EHP of the Dreads), then keep the drones the way they are, FBs as well. Nerf the titan´s DD a bit more so it doesn´t instapop Supers or remove them completly from the game[/Troll_mode_off]

and IMO, CCP should just sig nerf the fighters or don´t let them fit in the SCs. They are meant to be ''Capital Killers", not BS or sub cap killers. (That´s what their role is for. So, no need to have fighters to kill small ships).
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#395 - 2011-11-18 16:08:22 UTC
Quote:
CCP Tallest does a minimal no-real-change to hybrids in the name of gradual balancing.


Yeh right, because buffing EVERYTHING ABOUT HYBRIDS except range is definitely a "no-real-change".

Here's what's being buffed atm :

Gallente Speed (+ 10m/s on base speed for almost every ship)
+5% agility on every blastership.
Tracking (+20%)
Cap usage (-30%)
Blaster damage (+5%)
Railgun damage (+10%)
Ammo size (-50%, more ammo in cargohold)
5s reload on hybrids
PWG/CPU needs (-15%)

Sure, that's a "no-real-change". You get bigger guns because of reduced fitting requirements. You get more tracking, more damage, 5s reloads so you can match to the situation, you're faster, you're more agile. What else would you want ? It's still bazillion times better than any hybrid/gallente buffs we've seen in the last 2 years.[/quote]

A bazillion x zero is still zero. There's little to no hybrid use now, and there'll be the same after.
Naughty Fox
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#396 - 2011-11-18 16:31:22 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
SMT008 wrote:
Roboticus420 wrote:
they are not used to roll around in lol, if people do that, then it is inevitable that they are predictable/stupid & with time they lose there Supers as they get baited and counter hotdropped becuase of there predictableness.


I remember a time where the CFC had to literally choose which system to fight in (Read : choose which systems had cynojammers) in order to avoid being steamrolled by supercapitals.

Check PL's EVE kill page about ships & weapons used. I checked the last 6 months, there is at least the Nyx (With 500 to 1500 kills per month, usually) in the first 10 top used ships, sometimes the Aeon is 10th/9th.

Don't tell us this is only carrier/dread kills. It's clearly steamrolling on subcapfleets.



From a grunt in MM's perspective and not reflective of MV or MM:

We tried many times to bring subcap fleets into system engagements back in Tribute/Vale, only to face hundreds of supers instead of another subcap fleet. I can recall at least two times (JCV I believe and ZLZ... I suck at remembering system names) to where we had amassed a decent subcap fleet and even several supers ready on standby, only to be told to stand down and let it go- even with even numbers the ratio of supers to subcaps was so high that we couldn't stand a chance.

We lost the north, yes in part to becoming complacent and with many members inactive, but the largest factor was that even the "big and mighty NC" could not match the number of supers the DRF could muster.

Many just raised their hands in the air and said screw it... it's suicide to even bother.


Yup Original NC lost tribute due to being inactive, alot of the NC where selling there Supers off wich yet again allowed DRF to steamroller them, DRF attacked NC & friends for the GFs, hoping for good gritty,duke em out supercapital fights. As 1 power rises another falls. NC could not match Supercapital numbers, that is there own fualt for selling them off. The combination of having inactive & a small Supercapital fleet makes an alliance either unable to contend with the Big boys, or more often than not always on the defencive.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#397 - 2011-11-18 16:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Naughty Fox wrote:

Yup Original NC lost tribute due to being inactive, alot of the NC where selling there Supers off wich yet again allowed DRF to steamroller them, DRF attacked NC & friends for the GFs, hoping for good gritty,duke em out supercapital fights. As 1 power rises another falls. NC could not match Supercapital numbers, that is there own fualt for selling them off. The combination of having inactive & a small Supercapital fleet makes an alliance either unable to contend with the Big boys, or more often than not always on the defencive.


I can't disagree with you much there.

Most of us weren't even in the loop on supercap production or what was happening. I know MM wanted good fights also, it started that way.

I wouldn't say WE were inactive. I can't speak for RAGE or anyone east of Tribute. But no we couldn't match them. MM had the largest number of supers in the old NC, I think that people's perception of how many the NC at a whole was wrong. I've come to believe we had about 20% of the supers that we were thought to have.

When you count in the number of PL, Raiden, Tri, xdeathx, and INIT supers there was nowhere near an even number.

As such there was no fight and that's why things went down as they did. To be honest I don't think anyone I know is bitter about it happening, as you said alliances rise and fall.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
MastahFR
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#398 - 2011-11-18 17:55:45 UTC
When does the Hel will stop s u c k i n g balls, please CCP ?
Mauryce
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#399 - 2011-11-18 18:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mauryce
Subcaps blobs will be extreme OP and versatile after 29/11.

With subcaps blob you can reinforce towers, sbus, stations, kill supers, dread and carriers in very stupid safe way, etc, and risking littles amounts of isk.

For balance and role task:

1-Make online towers (in low and 0.0, not in Imperio), sbus, tcus, hubs and station (sov stuff) only targeteable by caps and supers.
2-Keep Pos modules vulnerables for subcaps.

Little changes with biggest impact on sov-wars


S!
Charles Edisson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#400 - 2011-11-18 19:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Charles Edisson
Getting slightly better with 30 and 35 but untill it's back to 40 and 45 fighter/bombers the nerf has gone too far.

You do realise just how simple it is for stealth bombers to totaly defang SC. AT the ABSOLUTE VERY least can you alter the tracking/optimal range of fighters having them orbit their target so closely just makes it far to easy to bombers to get a perfect strike.

The corp hangers arent even big enough to carry the second type of fighter/bomber so we cant re suply on the move.

I think CCP should offer a one time offer to put the ship in a highsec outpost with refining that you have best standings with so they can be reprocessed at the very least.