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I am actually kind of lucky in that regard, i was just getting an alt toon trained up for holding a supercarrier, and setting the isk aside, now i can stop that account before i spent any large amount of money and spend it on something else. I am just getting tired of the nerfs just before i reach a ship. I bought my first carrier right after the original carrier cargo nerf hit, now i was about to buy a supercarrier, now this, guess i will just keep my isk to myself till something else becomes the fotm and see where that goes.

exactly . . . run that same fight but now with three Hels RRing eachother and doing DPS, how many nags does it take to kill them now?

see the problem is that the nag's tank doesnt get any better, so where one super carrier is only just able to break its tank, two supers take it down > 2x as fast and can still provide unjammable RR support to eachother. what about 2 Hels and 5 carriers RRing eachother? i'd bet it would take more than 20 dreads to take them out . . . especially considering that in the amount of time it would take them to down that kind of tank, they could probably just slow boat out of range anyway.

The point is that supercarriers scale better than dreads because they can receive RR support while they do damage and dreads cant.

Sir, it is a carrier. A tier 2 carrier, but a carrier nonetheless.




that's what happens when you change your mind halfway through a sentence. But red herring aside my point stands that comparing ship cost to effectiveness in every situation is just stupid.




More than me? How do you know?

I tested my Wyvern against dreads, and before that I tested dreads against SCs. Always the same result.

Yes, overpowered against any other ship in the game. Not compared to other ships in its class. 2 Hels, or even a Hel and a chimera/nid would take roughly 20 dreads to even have a CHANCE.

Solo, a couple dreads could take one out but throw in RR situations in every SMART fleet and your test fight becomes moot.

I understand your plight, mind you I was a Wyvern pilot and if I go back into a super it'll be a Nyx instead. I know the pain of flying shield caps in general.

Hey look a cap fleet... I'll bring my chimera... nope, only wanted for POS/station repairs. Remember the Phoenix before *finally* getting citadel cruise?

The Hel/Nid need work. But that's a different issue. Right now CCP is looking to balance SCs in general, not the specifics. They've thrown out changes but I believe first on their mind is to stop the proliferation and use in EVERYTHING.

And to be honest, if you're a minnie specced subcap pilot you should be happy as hell right now...

@Vincent Gaines,

why this nerf? people say, supers are overpowered. in many things, there are right. but they are overpowered only because there were in supercarrierfleets. Why is it that supers are concentrate in (more or less) one big powerblock and not evenly distributed over the universe. Does this the problem of this shiptype or the people/politics/fleetdoctrines

You need an example for fielding supers? Ok, RF-time of an i-hub (pos-shooting isn't avaiable without fielding dreads *g*). Bring 20 supers, how many support you would field? You can't not only field carriers for support. You need massive support from subcaps. In my opinion you need way more support fielding 20 supers than fielding 40 dreadnoughts (cheaper, insurable, ect.). but you make more damage with your 40 dreadnoughts.

Dreads are not anti-ship dps platforms? You are right with anti subcap, but there works fine against capitals. Can you remember DK-FXK? Yes, it was a funny old capital battle (before apogrypha I think). http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3637346 (oh and I miss this time). This battle was last man standing and pure fun. I hope, after this patch there will be some battles like that.

@Iam Widdershins,

I try to understand the opposing position. With some arguments I can agree, with some I can't. I'm ok with -20% ehp, with logoffski, with some t2-modules such like the siege and also the warp disruption field generator with now 24km. There are a lot of changes with this patch. They will replace old fleetdoctrines, of course. But I don't want chars with useless ships like pre-apogrypha.

And NO, I don't want to fly an "I-Win-Button"-ship. With Titans there are unique in usability. You can't dock them, you are ecm-invulnerable and in price there are exobitant (in relation to all other ships). I don't want the actually supercarrier back, a nerf was neseccary. But I don't want the pre-apogrypha supercarrier too. Today you can carry 48 fighter/fighter bomber (Nyx) with a decent count of standard drones, After this nerf you can carry 30 fighter/fighter bomber without any standard drones. Fighter bomber are complete useless against subcaps, fighter are useless against frig/cruiser and nearly useless against bc. What do You carry in Your supercarrier? Without DCU you can field 20 drones. Some player ask for an separatly dronebay of 125-150 m³ for a slightly defence against subcaps. Is this a I-Win-Button? Is it a I-Win-Button asking for an role there are slightly better than other ships in this one role? Is it a I-Win-button asking for an jumprange-change between carrier and supercarrier? Going for more logistics

Any chance we get Supercarriers dockable until you guys buff them against sicne at this time they lack any kind of rol or effective/cost use?

Wish CCP developers had a clue what they are doing, and didnt do stupid sweeping balance changes every 2 years in roder to say hey we got the XXth's FREE (you wish) expansion!! You dont do 2 years balance you do very small tweaks eveyr month instead tos ee how the game evovle instead of putting everything into chaos because Mittani tells you what to do.

Thank you

Fair value as determined by the market. I see many in denial trying to sell them for several billion more than they are worth.

ok so here is a few things CCP needs to do with this nerf while still adding it to the game.

1. Launch the expansion WITHOUT the nerf at first, with all these new ships and T2 mods coming to the game the super will have some real fights on there hands. Many supers will die not knowing how to handle themselves against the new Tier 3's and the new T2 siege modes for dreads and new T2 triage for carriers. If all of that doesn't prove to be enough in killing sufficient numbers of supers, after 2 mos, then you move on to stage 2.

2. At stage 2 you put in the first nerf, the drone bay size nerf and EHP nerf but you still allow normal drones to be used, just make the bay smaller and increase the corp hanger or ship hanger to compensate (or even the cargo hold itself *GASP*). With less HP supers should die a bit faster, if they aren't dieing fast enough already that is. After a month, if this again doesn't seem to be enough, move on to stage 3.

3. At stage 3 the final nerf is added. The bonus to deploying additional drones per a level is limited to Fighters and Fighter bombers ONLY. This makes the super able to only put out 5 normal drones (or 10 if fitted with DCU's). This brings a fitting delema to super pilots, do you fit yourself for spider-tanking or do you fit no RR and go with a more generalized fit?


If CCP adds in the nerf SLOWLY and not all at once, people can digest and swallow it better then taking it all in one big gulp. With the new ships and mods coming to this expansion, the options for super killing will open more so then any nerf ever could do.

Or stop the nerf after step 1 / 2 / 3 if you think and we say it's enough and you will see it on the killboards..

Has anyone tested sieging dreads against supers yet? I'll try to tomorrow but I have a feeling they are still able to be speedtanked.