Test Server Feedback

Yes i think you hit it right on the spot. i agree.

Well, without any Sentry drones is it kind of hard to hit a POS tower, since as far as I know neither Fighters nor Fighter Bombers can hit the tower...

Any changes on that?



// Zork

The change for Shield capitals is ok, but if you add a Slave set for shields, its going to ruin all your balancing you've just done. Either leave them without an implant set (Nomads work amazingly well here), or nerf them in line with, or moreso than the others along wiht the set. And please, if your going to do that, make the penaly for using them a 30-50% reduction in shield recharge to discourage sub-caps from them for a rediculous passive tank.







You've got a anti-capital ship that can hit Battleships reasonably well, thats its role. Dont try to get it to do more than what it excells at.

Everyone in this thread is bitter than you've lost your clearly overpowered jack of all trades, and keep wanting life to go back to the way it was. No, you dont need a ship that can hit PoS's, thats a Dreadnaught / Titan's job, so why do you ask to do so? Even if you got the ability to shoot towers with sentries, what is the point? Let the ships designed for the job do it, and use your ship for what it does well, killing and incapping the Mods, or defending them from Capital / BS sized targets.

Your Mothership isnt a swiss army knife anymore, get over it.

And for those using Bombers to hit subcaps, its maybe time for Darwin's Theory to smite you from on high...

The revised changes are nice as far as they go. It's very sad however that nothing is being done to fix the issue of normal capitals being useless. I have been a dread and carrier pilot for almost a year and not once used my carrier except as a hauler. And why would I?

A carrier is meant to be used in triage mode. Without triage, a triple-RR Archon delivers less RR than three guardians, with vastly inferior range and mobility, and vastly higher price. There's simply no reason to bring my Archon to a fight instead of a Guardian.

And triage is not an option outside of wormholes because a single titan pilot would be a death sentence to my carrier. The enemy does not need superior numbers. He doesn't need to do good recon. He doesn't need to do anything except opening a cyno and doomsdaying my sitting duck. Every activation of a triage module is a flip of the coin: Heads, the enemy has no titan pilot waiting to jump in and I may survive, tails: a titan jumps in and I'm 100% dead no matter what.

Supercaps are the weapon of the major alliances, fine. But there needs to be a way for smaller entities that don't have nor want supercaps to evade them. It should involve effort, but it should be possible. Make normal capitals a viable weapon of small and medium alliances.

Why do supercaps still have built-in warp core stabilisers? Say no to carebear modules on PVP ships!

Our "anti-capital" *super* capital ships are still getting shafted. We don't expect to be the destroyer-of-worlds, we just want a place in the fleet. Especially those of us who spent considerable time and energy earning bounties and grinding plexes for 20bil isk.

This thread is headed dangerously into the territory of a mentally-handicapped driver at the wheel with 2 people in the back who have never driven a car, an experienced driver who can't be heard over the screaming of 6 goons in the trunk with a megaphone smug-whining about how people need to just sell their supers and HTFU. Because apparently, no one at the company is capable of driving the critical-thinking-mobile, so a ragtag group of players have to offer up their half-baked observations of equally half-baked CCP proposed changes.

SOLUTION:

Put seven CCP employees who have flown supercaps in fleet before (do that many exist?), and do not let them out until the *Supercap pilots of the Eve community* approve of the seven's brainstorm that results. Why must Tallest and whichever loudest voices spam the forums be the deciding factor on how a (more than most) serious business ship and character will either become useful or thrown to the gutter? Still demanding satisfaction, my ship is a joke. Not training for any other supers, especially after my drone skills are wasted sub money at this point.

If CCP wants to offer an amnesty program for all of us 'evil, overpowered' supercap pilots, give us an exchange of 10 dreads for our supercap. I'd hate to see mine go, but there's this desire i have to actually log my pilot in and play eve again.

PROPOSED CHANGES:

Where to even start? some are good ideas on their face, but would fail in balance. CCP employees should recognize these before even mentioning them. Dialogue is good, yes, but common sense and knowledge of the game mechanics is more important when making one's thoughts public while representing CCP.

Nothing I've seen so far makes the Hel something an alliance would use in a fight. The wyvern / implants suggestion is interesting because it's a paradigm shift for the time-honored tradition of armor being OP from the beginning. Why can't we explore this further? So many are used to shield being a joke, that even SC pilots scoff at boosting it, only because they're in their comfortable bubble of armor superiority. We should ask ourselves: what is the nature of a shield-tanked cap/supercap, and what deficiencies could be remedied without upsetting a true balance (eve hasn't been reasonably balanced regarding the two tanking types since caps were introduced)?

What would happen if we had shield supers with 20k more ehp than armor? We experienced this with Aeons - they were not the first primary as a general rule. Now, if a Hel (with properly applied repping bonuses/fitting fixes) were to have more ehp than the other SC"s on field, there could possibly be a role for it (the triage archon for SC fleets, with the ability to use FB's as a small bonus). Prove that to be an unbalanced idea in the scope of fleet warfare.

I almost understand the smugness of goons et al. who would prefer there were no supers, and we could all just have fun fleet engagements with subcaps and endless paper/rock/scissors/flamethrower/water counters to FOTM fits. This, however, is a game with players many of whom have been around for approaching a decade, and they deserve a reasonable justification for logging-in their super account. These changes proposed by Tallest *must* be tested, then the collective super community must provide feedback in order to move on to a proper set of tweaks.

The fact that the 'nerf-to-uselessness' is actually being given a reconsideration is a shining light in all of this. Such acts by CCP must continue until we reach the balance that benefits the game, not just one powerbloc or group of anti-cap fanatics.

That's not the implication. It's a choice to fly supercaps, and the pilots who choose to do so shouldn't be negated simply because your power bloc is afraid to divert isk to capital fleets instead of whatever you're doing with it now. CFC/whomever else is afraid of SC-heavy alliances shouldn't be the loudest voice simply because you have a CSM member bent on re-balancing the nullsec game in the favor of your powerbloc only.

SUPERCARRIERS ARE NO ANTI CAPITAL PLATTFORM!!! And we (the pilots) dont want them in that role.

Get this in your head FFS.

When i started training for my Aeon 2 years ago they where ANTI SUBCAP!!! (Read again: SUBCAP!!!) Ships.

CCP in all its idioty made a big mistake when they introduced the Fighterbombers and now they follow the same path again.

I didnt train the SC to shoot dreads, because even back than Dreads where used so rarely that if my Rev would have been real it would have looked more rusty than a Naglfar does in between times i actually did fly it.

Remember, no one of us ever asked for the Fighter Bombers. I wanted the Aeon even long before.

If you want to balance them, remove Fighterbombers, keep current EHP, keep drones, keep changes to logoff mechanics and keep the dread buff + keep Dread Drones.

Than you will have a weapon against them (->Dreadnoughts), while they will still have the type of functionality for the pilots.

MOTHERSHIPS ( i had the SC term btw) where perfectly fine back than, expect that they where too thin for larger engagments. The only thing they needed was a EHP buff so they get somewhat resistent against the new DD (which is the next dumb thing CCP did). If CCP would have listened to others than the Gooncrybabies, they would have simply limited the amounts of AoE DDs per Grid per hour to 1 or 2 and than a well placed Titan could clean house with a Fighterswarm pretty fast.

But no, those Goonpets at CCP (and everyone that thinks this was not influenced by Goonswarm is either blind, uninformed or simply stupid) would never admit that they made a mistake. And we, that did spend years and a shitton of money (2 year in subscription is 360€) now have to pay the price for it.

Oh and btw.: Everyone who has no SuperCapital GTFO of this thread.

A SupCap Fleet should pretty damn well have trouble scratching a SuperCap. And btw.: I didnt add the term *Super* to the whole thing.

If you want to engage Caps, bring other Caps. You dont fight Tanks with Martial Arts attacks, you take another tank.

As we dont have urban warfare in Eve, just *open field*, *Infantry* (SubCaps) should pretty damn well have hard time taking on the Armored Cavalery (Capitals).

Oh and btw.: I would be the first one to give the Aeon back to CCP if they would offer me a compensation for it. But they refuse even that.

And just to make one point clear: When i joined WN i brought the Aeon with me. Just look at my employment history andf check some Killboards.

And yes, i got the Aeon pretty late. But that is because it was a huge inventement in both time and ISK (and i had to pay it all alone).

If CCP wants SCs out of the game, fine. But than offer us at least something for the money and time we invested until this point into the SuperCaps.

The Aeon is worth around 2000€ (calculated with 350 Mio./Plex). If you have 2000€ to throw out of the window, you can send them to CCP so they convert them to ISK and i'll be happy to use that selfdestruct button once i recieve them.

But nerfing the ship into oblivion while not even making it dockable is a slap in the face of the people who worked for it (both in RL and Ingame) to afford such a vessel.

EDIT: Oh and btw.: There are actually people out there who play the game because they want to fly huge, powerfull ships. Not everyone wants to fly rifters all day long.

EDIT2: And the next question for you: Why should i bother with 0.0 at all in the first place if the reason for me to be there is removed? I moved out to 0.0 to fly caps. If caps and supercaps are changed in the current proposed way there will be one less reason to move out to 0.0.
I dont say its the only reason to be there, but at least it is one. And i am pretty sure that i am not the only one who flys Caps because he likes to fly Caps.

I Think Leave Scaps how they are.. that's what I would love.
Maybe buffing the Hel and the Shields ( IMPS/deadspace invul etc. )
They are easy to kill. You need to now what you're doing.

Those ship's are damn expensive.. I've used mine the last week so often that the bill for fuel is right now at about 500m ISK...
And they cost much as you buy them. That's pretty fine. They should be a massive DPS and Tank platform like they are today.
I compare Scaps with normal navy carriers which we've got on earth...
They have the option to take out other carriers - with bombers like scaps in eve with fighterbombers.. they can take out other any other mid and large ship or large planes with fighters - like scaps
they can engage nearly everything small but not with kind of power like other navy ship cause they only got defensive weapons and that's the job of the drones in EvE and on earth of the small gun's and rockets mounted on them..
If you shot down every plane of a carrier on earth they only have a little defense like in eve a Scap without fighters and fighter bombers - fine.
And the aircraft carriers can send out support like in EvE with remote repair drones etc.
And in EvE and at earth they cost really much to keep them usable ( buying new fighters / fuel etc. etc. etc. )

Well this is a Sci-Fi Game.. so we have HIC's.. they're getting new T2 modules.. this ship is defense less - introduce capital neuts.. or give them the old drone bay at the old size back.


I see tree options for how to deal with Scaps or the changes:

1. Give every player a choice after login in after the downgrade for moving his clone into a station give them all thier assets in the hanger and the isk for the super. modules and even imps etc. at the hanger and give them back every skillpoint they spend for this ship so they can skill a different way. So they are free of you're horrible changes.
Remember many of the scap pilots spent years in grinding ISK and SP for this ship which is now total useless and even the €/$ etc. you CCP received from us over all those day's / months and years..

2. Leave them how they are, maybe reduce the eHP like you wanted with 20/20/20 and 20/20/20 ( after the shield buff this would be fine + the deadspace shield items and the shield slave set you want to introduce..).
They could be now blow apart from the new Tier 3 BC's those ships cost nothing even a 250 man fleet ( ~15bil and they will get pretty much anything back from the insurance.. )is cheaper than a SINGEL proper fitted Scap ( 22-30bil). And rember again most of the SCAPs were paid by the pilot a single PERSON who have spent really much time and real money ( payment for the account ) for this kind of ship and if you spend so much money you are allow to estimate that it could to pretty anything.
Do you think if a nation buy's a aircraft carrier they would by it if such nerf like now happens to to scaps would happend to them.
Those got damn ship are you're number one in bombing other countries in eve corps / alliances back to stone age. That's fine.

3.If you really want to nerf them to 15/15 for hel/nyx... WTF - give them a role again.. give fighterbombers much more dps and allow them to hit towers etc. but I think this isn't a choice. and If you really continue like you've posted give them at least a role in a forcefield with clone vat etc... and a bigger corp and ship hanger.. and maybe a bigger and better ganklink boni. So you can use them as bonus in a FF an people can reship faster etc. and clonejump.. and then give the old name Motership back.
Or consider to let them dock and be insured so pilots would get at least 15bil out of the ship if it's blows up. And make a long term insurance .. for 6 or 12 month.

Anyway I can't understand all those dread pilots you're getting a new role once Dust 514 is introduced to EvE.. and Scap are getting no role... even worse their role is take away..

I don't know why so many people are crying because of the overpowered scaps.. now we've got a part of eve which is compared to earth the US the military overpower which nobody can attack without heavy losses themself or even die..
At the old day's it was the old NC with all their blue friends.. but caused of political fails and not having the will to spend that much or even more ISK in defending them self the ( I call them "red" blob) blow them up - fine.
The old NC hat more pilotes etc. and had even the money to fight back but their was no will.. now everybody is crying - but wha ? CCP you don't need to play god at all... I think now more and more alliances have to form up together and fight them if they want to take down their military power and stop crying at your like a little children to nerf them..At least I've to say their is something you have to change and that are the minmatar scap and titan and carrier as well.
Give the Hel and Ragnarok more chance to come home from a battle specially the Hel.
sry for my bad english