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Genuine question to CCP
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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1 - 2013-11-09 15:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Dear SIr/madam-
Many members of the player base have serious concerns regarding the latest Live event.
Certain actions occurred, which after players have this weekend,reported their experiences,are now more than clear.

We are concerned that, We no longer are sure, that we can trust or can Judge, how the company regards it's customers-

There are the following possible causes, and they will determine whether you are a company, we wish to continue doing business with, no matter how good your game is, and how much we enjoy playing it.
This is not just an issue of gameplay, It is an issue as to whether ethically such behaviour can be supported with our subscriptions.

Your reply and actions will determine this.

1. Was this a matter of rogue developers Having Giggles at the customers expense.
2. Was this approved at a high level in the company?
3. Is the nature of the company culture this Toxic?
4. Or was it an accidental chaotic mistake that you wish to solve.

Please Let us know.

Everyone hopes and wishes it was the latter and as such we can support you in every way including our continued custom.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#2 - 2013-11-09 16:09:31 UTC
The spirit of this thread is in the right place, but I think you over-estimate your importance and your right to claim to speak on behalf of players.

**Vherokior **
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#3 - 2013-11-09 16:14:48 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
The spirit of this thread is in the right place, but I think you over-estimate your importance and your right to claim to speak on behalf of players.


Hopefully people will wait for an answer before many more unsubscribe.
It is only reasonable to give CCP a chance to respond before we decide to take our custom away?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Qweasdy
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2013-11-09 16:49:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Qweasdy
You're just determined to splurge your rageposts all over this forum aren't you? Seriously it's getting to the point of spam. You have made your opinions known, unless you have anything new to say then don't say anything, rageposts solve nothing just clog up the forums with toxicity.

On the issue at hand: Few people are in denial that the event was bad, badly planned and badly managed, resulting in a waste of time for everyone involved. The whole idea of starting it in sarum prime and making thousands of people travel across to the other side of highsec was an awful idea and then through an unsecure gate into nullsec... well I can't imagine how anyone thought that would be a good idea.

But here's the thing, I have no doubt in my mind that CCP knows that it was bad, how could they not? Even if you have no love for CCP and think they just use eve as a money extraction tool - I couldn't disagree more - you must still accept that deliberately screwing over your customer base is just mutually bad. So they wouldn't mess up an event like this on purpose.

At this point CCP will be wanting to do damage control and they'll be being pretty darn careful about how they do it. They'll be trying to find out what went wrong, the forums over the days after the event will be instrumental in deciding what they actually do about it. Feedback. That's what they're looking for, they don't need to know that the event was fail, they need to know WHY the event was fail. I've been lurking this forum frequently since the event and have seen precious little of that. After a few days - as they've shown in the past - of meetings and feedback collection they'll make a post detailing what they think went wrong, what they think they should do in the future etc.

Threaten to unsub all you want it doesn't change a damn thing, even actually unsubbing won't change a thing. This isn't as big a deal as you think it is, not unless people start unsubbing in their hundreds (which I can guarantee you isn't going to happen, at least not over this). They already know that they did a poor job of it, your threat of unsubbing serves no purpose, by all means cancel your subscription if it really bothers you that much but don't expect it to send CCP reeling.

This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#5 - 2013-11-09 17:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
This post is a request for CCP to respond before players take a decision.Nothing more, nothing less.


I am not interested in your opinion on this matter, please post your interesting opinions elsewhere.Can we keep it clear of rageposts and Nullsquawk so CCP can actually see it?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#6 - 2013-11-09 17:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
To be honest, it's an open thread and our objections are topical. More to the point, you've been putting your opinion in multiple threads, and made multiple threads of your own (I count 5 in the last 48 hours) all on the same topic.

So I think you should accept that it's somewhat rich you saying that this is not the appropriate thread for our opinions, because there's no reason why it shouldn't be.

**Vherokior **
Angel Summoner
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#7 - 2013-11-09 18:12:36 UTC
It's a valid question though.

Are hisec carebears so disliked by CCP that we're not wanted? Even those prepared to dip their toes into the waters of PvP?
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#8 - 2013-11-09 18:17:08 UTC
Angel Summoner wrote:
It's a valid question though.

Are hisec carebears so disliked by CCP that we're not wanted? Even those prepared to dip their toes into the waters of PvP?


That Is what I would like to Know.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Delileah Acharyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-11-10 02:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Delileah Acharyn
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Angel Summoner wrote:
It's a valid question though.

Are hisec carebears so disliked by CCP that we're not wanted? Even those prepared to dip their toes into the waters of PvP?


That Is what I would like to Know.


Ok then here is the answer you should expect.

"CCP cares about all its customers (as long as they obey the rules e.g. EULA)."

The live event was intended to tell a story. It did. The Empires can't or are unwilling to invest sufficient resources to deal with the fringes of the cluster (nullsec). They tried (halfheartedly?). They called upon the assistance of capsuleers and a vast number of capsuleers heeded the call. Yet still they failed, mostly due incompetence. In the process they have alienated many of those very capsuleers that answered the call to arms.

CCP don't think you should be so attached to your internet spaceships (if they don't explode the economy collapses). Although CCP ran the event, it was the actors (NPCs) that led those capsuleers to a nullsec gatecamp. Blame the NPCs for choosing to stage in Sarum Prime and Mevves then restaging at Ihal and Stacmon in preparation for an assault in the final systems in null. If you lost a shiny blame CONCORD/Empire. Really annoyed because of your loss? Get revenge.

At the time of the event I was annoyed, frustrated and disappointed. I would've liked to have gotten to the final system and seen the research facility. I could've reshipped and got there in a covops but chose to watch the event on twitch instead. The negative feelings were due to travelling for so long through tidi to contribute nothing as a result of being an early primary.


EDIT:

I forgot to add that many people enjoyed this event. I speak of course of those who live in nullsec. They rarely (never?) get to participate in event.
Were the initial staging systems planned to ensure tidi thus ensuring that a large number of highsec capsuleers didn't make it? Was it expected that the tidi would cause a lot of people to give up and not bother? If you didn't make it there then you probably didn't lose a ship. A lot of people got into much larger fleets than they've experienced before. A lot of people got their first (though not necessarily pleasant) taste of PvP.
Behnid Arcani
The Lucky Rogers
#10 - 2013-11-10 04:39:24 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Dear SIr/madam-
Many members of the player base have serious concerns regarding the latest Live event.
Certain actions occurred, which after players have this weekend,reported their experiences,are now more than clear.

We are concerned that, We no longer are sure, that we can trust or can Judge, how the company regards it's customers-

There are the following possible causes, and they will determine whether you are a company, we wish to continue doing business with, no matter how good your game is, and how much we enjoy playing it.

Your reply and actions will determine this.

1. Was this a matter of rogue developers Having Giggles at the customers expense.
2. Was this approved at a high level in the company?
3. Is the nature of the company culture this Toxic?
4. Or was it an accidental chaotic mistake that you wish to solve.

Please Let us know.

Everyone hopes and wishes it was the latter and as such we can support you in every way including our continued custom.


I know your tone is intended to be reasonable, but it's coming across as aggressive and accusatory. Disconnect from the issue for a while, and come back in a few days.

Most of all, be patient. This was a really big mistake. CCP knows this. Give them time to work out what went wrong, and discuss internally. At least wait until people get back to work on Monday.

We all want an explanation. It will come.

Be patient.
Kyria Shirako
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-11-10 05:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyria Shirako
Behnid Arcani wrote:

I know your tone is intended to be reasonable, but it's coming across as aggressive and accusatory. Disconnect from the issue for a while, and come back in a few days.

Most of all, be patient. This was a really big mistake. CCP knows this. Give them time to work out what went wrong, and discuss internally. At least wait until people get back to work on Monday.

We all want an explanation. It will come.

Be patient.


This is entirely reasonable. I think the nature of the mass displeasure has been made known by this point, and most of the arguments are now going around in circles.

Nothing left to do but wait...
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#12 - 2013-11-10 13:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kyria Shirako wrote:
Behnid Arcani wrote:

I know your tone is intended to be reasonable, but it's coming across as aggressive and accusatory. Disconnect from the issue for a while, and come back in a few days.

Most of all, be patient. This was a really big mistake. CCP knows this. Give them time to work out what went wrong, and discuss internally. At least wait until people get back to work on Monday.

We all want an explanation. It will come.

Be patient.


This is entirely reasonable. I think the nature of the mass displeasure has been made known by this point, and most of the arguments are now going around in circles.

Nothing left to do but wait...


I agree, I really want to continue playing this game, and I really hope for a positive answer.

I hope that I can depending on the answer.

Many will not accept being played for fools, if that was the intention.

There are many people who believe that all customers deserve respect, and no one group should be used for the entertainment of others. Whether other groups of players or developers.
And cannot ethically support that with our payments even though we would lose the chance to play the game we so enjoy

Hopefully it is merely that something went horribly wrong and there is a willingness to correct matters.

I imagine the reason we have not had an emergency response is that senior management need to understand what happened first.And understand the magnitude of the consequences.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Tabra Penken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-11-10 16:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tabra Penken
Quote:

I imagine the reason we have not had an emergency response is that senior management need to understand what happened first.And understand the magnitude of the consequences.




There has been no "emergency response" because there is no emergency. All that happened here is a video game event gone bad that's hardly an emergency.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#14 - 2013-11-10 16:42:13 UTC
Tabra Penken wrote:

I imagine the reason we have not had an emergency response is that senior management need to understand what happened first.And understand the magnitude of the consequences.[/quote]



There has been no "emergency response" because there is no emergency. All that happened here is a video game event gone bad that's hardly an emergency.[/quote]

You,fail clearly to understand the magnitude of this issue.
If not handled well you will be unlikely to have the game to play as people who have a belief in right and wrong will draw conclusions and act according to their ethical principles.

If you have none then I understand why you do not see the issue. Read op and try to get it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#15 - 2013-11-11 13:47:38 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Tabra Penken wrote:

I imagine the reason we have not had an emergency response is that senior management need to understand what happened first.And understand the magnitude of the consequences.




There has been no "emergency response" because there is no emergency. All that happened here is a video game event gone bad that's hardly an emergency.[/quote]

You,fail clearly to understand the magnitude of this issue.
If not handled well you will be unlikely to have the game to play as people who have a belief in right and wrong will draw conclusions and act according to their ethical principles.

If you have none then I understand why you do not see the issue. Read op and try to get it. [/quote]

This game is here today, it's going to be here tomorrow, the next moth, next year, I hope the next decade.

It's not going away just because you're a little upset.

**Vherokior **
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#16 - 2013-11-11 14:18:19 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Tabra Penken wrote:

I imagine the reason we have not had an emergency response is that senior management need to understand what happened first.And understand the magnitude of the consequences.




There has been no "emergency response" because there is no emergency. All that happened here is a video game event gone bad that's hardly an emergency.


You,fail clearly to understand the magnitude of this issue.
If not handled well you will be unlikely to have the game to play as people who have a belief in right and wrong will draw conclusions and act according to their ethical principles.

If you have none then I understand why you do not see the issue. Read op and try to get it. [/quote]

This game is here today, it's going to be here tomorrow, the next moth, next year, I hope the next decade.

It's not going away just because you're a little upset.[/quote]

Would you like to bet on that?
Good luck with that, let me know how it works out for you.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Jon Flatul
SVOMBOLON
#17 - 2013-11-11 19:28:30 UTC
I didn't participate in the event, but I understand your disappointment, mate. Nevertheless, you should start becoming aware of your character's name. As for me, I do not see any "ataraxía" in your continuous contributions to this topic. Take a break, lighten an aromatic candle, keep playing EVE and mine some roids, because mining cures.

J.F.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#18 - 2013-11-11 19:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Jon Flatul wrote:
I didn't participate in the event, but I understand your disappointment, mate. Nevertheless, you should start becoming aware of your character's name. As for me, I do not see any "ataraxía" in your continuous contributions to this topic. Take a break, lighten an aromatic candle, keep playing EVE and mine some roids, because mining cures.

J.F.

You are the first person who has picked up on that.
Remember though the philosophy also included the concept that we choose to accept that we could not change and which of lifes unpleasantnesses we could leave behind us, and to make that choice cleanly without looking back.

But good advice regardless, thank you.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#19 - 2013-11-11 19:36:35 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Tabra Penken wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

I imagine the reason we have not had an emergency response is that senior management need to understand what happened first.And understand the magnitude of the consequences.




There has been no "emergency response" because there is no emergency. All that happened here is a video game event gone bad that's hardly an emergency.


You,fail clearly to understand the magnitude of this issue.
If not handled well you will be unlikely to have the game to play as people who have a belief in right and wrong will draw conclusions and act according to their ethical principles.

If you have none then I understand why you do not see the issue. Read op and try to get it.


This game is here today, it's going to be here tomorrow, the next moth, next year, I hope the next decade.

It's not going away just because you're a little upset.


Would you like to bet on that?
Good luck with that, let me know how it works out for you.

Epicurus.

Calm down. You've made numerous posts explaining that you're leaving amidst a sea of outrage. And you're allowed to be outraged, sure. But if you're going to leave, just leave - please, stop trying to incense new rage. There's no point in inflaming the situation.

Take a cue from your epicurean namesake. Sample your rage judiciously and with moderation.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#20 - 2013-11-11 19:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Epicurus.

Calm down. You've made numerous posts explaining that you're leaving amidst a sea of outrage. And you're allowed to be outraged, sure. But if you're going to leave, just leave - please, stop trying to incense new rage. There's no point in inflaming the situation.

Take a cue from your epicurean namesake. Sample your rage judiciously and with moderation

Thanks for that, but i still have paid for another month, even though I no longer have a paypal subscription.

It may be a vain hope, but CCP may take account of peoples concerns and actually respond. It took mass player rage before they eventually decided to respond last time, people leaving did not seem to make them wake up then.

No one would be happier than me if they dealt with this issue.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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