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To floggeth a dead horse...eth

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Razor Grey
Orphans of Charon
#61 - 2013-11-09 09:07:11 UTC
I assume it played out as intend. My unsubstantiated theory, the sites did not work. Null Factions got to shield that discovery.

The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#62 - 2013-11-09 09:39:58 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to put together such well considered feedback. We really appreciate it and will take these points on board in our retrospective on the event.



Picks one of the least critical, least representative, and dumbest posts about the event and chooses to comment on that post, because :CCP:.


I actually commented on it because it was well written, contained constructive points in terms of what we could improve on as well as what we did well (people sometimes forget that as well as improving what you did wrong, keeping the good elements consistent is key) and was written in a polite, balanced tone. There are plenty of other more negative posts that also share the validity and tone of this message and we're working our way through them. If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.

You are however, becoming guilty of cherry picking the most complementary posts to CCP to respond to.
Especially ones which troll 'high sec carebears' by claiming the most common lines are complaints about CCP sacrificing them.
Rather than the pages & pages of complaints about CCP not giving players time to get to the events from the staging system.
Which presents a very biased appearance of what CCP cares about and gives most of us the feeling that you intend to simply white wash this.

Quite frankly, next time you want to do something like this, just write a Chronicle. Because the players weren't even allowed to try to influence this event. Which made it a terrible terrible event. I normally stand by CCP, I have game Dev experience, GM experience & some coding experience on smaller projects, but this event was just a monumental stuff up.

The only people happy are all the null sec entities who got green killboards from this without caring about the lore (Disclaimer, I'm sure the odd one or two might, but 99% of them were there for the kills).
DenForX
Resource Extraction Partners
#63 - 2013-11-09 10:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: DenForX
N'maro Makari wrote:

Let me ask you what did you actually loose on this event? Did you actually loose anything irreplaceable?


Every ship lost in Eve represents an irreplaceable quantity of time. The hours spent and by many considered wasted are also lost time. The attitude, silence and apparent ineptitude of CCP in running this giant cow patty wastes player good will.

Both are precious and irreplaceable commodities and companies in the entertainment/customer service business need to be particularly wary of wasting either with regards to their customer base.

CCP has shown a careless disregard for both in the missteps they have made and it makes me wonder how many more missteps they can make before the player base has enough and seeks to spend their time and good will elsewhere? Other space games are coming and while possibly not as diverse and in depth as Eve, competition that builds a better experience and is more responsive to the customer base will seriously hurt CCP if they don't get their act together.

I do hope they get it together and soon because I can see where it is going if they do not.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#64 - 2013-11-09 11:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
N'maro Makari wrote:
You're welcome, and please do keep this all going! A failed experiment is better than none at all.

If a company have to experiment on live server with paying customers 10 years after product release - I call such company "hopeless". For me it's miracle there are still some players who think dear CCP is caring about anything (like players' feedback) but selling more GTCs. Otherwise we'd have actual expansions (with PvE and story content) and live events instead of F2P-style badly designed PvP.
Tara Tyrael
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
#65 - 2013-11-09 11:52:58 UTC
server is still down, wonder if CCP decided to make a live event server restart Twisted
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#66 - 2013-11-09 14:00:19 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to put together such well considered feedback. We really appreciate it and will take these points on board in our retrospective on the event.



Picks one of the least critical, least representative, and dumbest posts about the event and chooses to comment on that post, because :CCP:.


I actually commented on it because it was well written, contained constructive points in terms of what we could improve on as well as what we did well (people sometimes forget that as well as improving what you did wrong, keeping the good elements consistent is key) and was written in a polite, balanced tone. There are plenty of other more negative posts that also share the validity and tone of this message and we're working our way through them. If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.

You are however, becoming guilty of cherry picking the most complementary posts to CCP to respond to.
Especially ones which troll 'high sec carebears' by claiming the most common lines are complaints about CCP sacrificing them.
Rather than the pages & pages of complaints about CCP not giving players time to get to the events from the staging system.
Which presents a very biased appearance of what CCP cares about and gives most of us the feeling that you intend to simply white wash this.

Quite frankly, next time you want to do something like this, just write a Chronicle. Because the players weren't even allowed to try to influence this event. Which made it a terrible terrible event. I normally stand by CCP, I have game Dev experience, GM experience & some coding experience on smaller projects, but this event was just a monumental stuff up.

The only people happy are all the null sec entities who got green killboards from this without caring about the lore (Disclaimer, I'm sure the odd one or two might, but 99% of them were there for the kills).


Going insane pointing this out but CCP responded to other threads and also why are they obligated to respond to a bunch of threads which mostly say the same thing?

**Vherokior **
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#67 - 2013-11-09 14:04:43 UTC
DenForX wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:

Let me ask you what did you actually loose on this event? Did you actually loose anything irreplaceable?


Every ship lost in Eve represents an irreplaceable quantity of time. The hours spent and by many considered wasted are also lost time. The attitude, silence and apparent ineptitude of CCP in running this giant cow patty wastes player good will.

Both are precious and irreplaceable commodities and companies in the entertainment/customer service business need to be particularly wary of wasting either with regards to their customer base.

CCP has shown a careless disregard for both in the missteps they have made and it makes me wonder how many more missteps they can make before the player base has enough and seeks to spend their time and good will elsewhere? Other space games are coming and while possibly not as diverse and in depth as Eve, competition that builds a better experience and is more responsive to the customer base will seriously hurt CCP if they don't get their act together.

I do hope they get it together and soon because I can see where it is going if they do not.


Sweet Jesus

Why do you think CCP is at all obligated to protect your ships from destruction? Why are people pretending they were somehow tricked or forced into one of the most dangerous place in the game?

If your ships mean so much that they are so irreplaceable, my advice you would be, honestly, unsub and find a game where assets are not so disposable.

**Vherokior **
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#68 - 2013-11-09 14:10:17 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Quote:
Why are people pretending they were somehow tricked or forced into one of the most dangerous place in the game?



Because they were?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#69 - 2013-11-09 14:13:05 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Quote:
Why are people pretending they were somehow tricked or forced into one of the most dangerous place in the game?



Because they were?


Try looking in the top left corner of your screen brah. Bare security status, right there. Not to mention they told you where you were going. If you didn't know that makes you stupid, and entirely responsible for whatever happened.

**Vherokior **
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#70 - 2013-11-09 14:21:47 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Quote:
Why are people pretending they were somehow tricked or forced into one of the most dangerous place in the game?



Because they were?


Try looking in the top left corner of your screen brah. Bare security status, right there. Not to mention they told you where you were going. If you didn't know that makes you stupid, and entirely responsible for whatever happened.



Well I could give the benefit of an intelligent reply, But would probably find it wasted.

When you were at school (assuming) did your parents or teachers take you to the 'bad ' side of town and abandon you?

When you came home beaten abused and hurt,

how would you feel if you were told you were foolish because you passed the road signs, you should have known?

Trust was betrayed, Would you ever trust your parents again?

And when they are old and hungry should you expect to then continue to pay them good money or would you abandon them?

Is it a Surprise that people feel that it might be a little foolish to continue subsidizing these peoples salary????

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#71 - 2013-11-09 14:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Quote:
Why are people pretending they were somehow tricked or forced into one of the most dangerous place in the game?



Because they were?


Try looking in the top left corner of your screen brah. Bare security status, right there. Not to mention they told you where you were going. If you didn't know that makes you stupid, and entirely responsible for whatever happened.



Well I could give the benefit of an intelligent reply, But would probably find it wasted.

When you were at school (assuming) did your parents or teachers take you to the 'bad ' side of town and abandon you?

When you came home beaten abused and hurt,

how would you feel if you were told you were foolish because you passed the road signs, you should have known?

Trust was betrayed, Would you ever trust your parents again?

And when they are old and hungry should you expect to then continue to pay them good money or would you abandon them?

Is it a Surprise that people feel that it might be a little foolish to continue subsidizing these peoples salary????


Dude.

I think you need a lie down, a cup of hot chocolate, a hug, or whatever because this is way to un-serious to equate to child abuse.

Leaving aside for a minute that you are anything from a young to full adult, well within the age of being able to look at the information clearly presented, and make an informed decision.

And of course leaving the fact that your metaphor is flawed. You personally seemed to be driving your car under the impression that God was directing you through the radio.

**Vherokior **
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-11-09 14:38:52 UTC
no this event was similar to:

a friend invites you to a party
it takes 15 mins to get there,
on your way there your friend calls you and tells you the party has been relocated 25 km from where you are, the location is unsettling but being that is your childhood friend you trust him,
you start driving there, but lose direction of where to go so you call your friend to tell you "he leads you one way and then the other" finally, loads of heavy traffic on the road so it takes you 2 hours to get there
You arrive on the frontyard, the sprinklers turn on full and a doberman comes and bites you in the balls, you manage to make it to the door, you ring the doorbell, a water bucket drops on your head, you hear laughter from behind the door,

your friend answers (laughing) tells you the party is over, kicks you in the balls, spits on your face and pushes you down the stairs and tells you "you should have come prepared bro" "LOL TEARS"
yea that's how i'd describe it.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#73 - 2013-11-09 14:43:46 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
no this event was similar to:

a friend invites you to a party
it takes 15 mins to get there,
on your way there your friend calls you and tells you the party has been relocated 25 km from where you are, the location is unsettling but being that is your childhood friend you trust him,
you start driving there, but lose direction of where to go so you call your friend to tell you "he leads you one way and then the other" finally, loads of heavy traffic on the road so it takes you 2 hours to get there
You arrive on the frontyard, the sprinklers turn on full and a doberman comes and bites you in the balls, you manage to make it to the door, you ring the doorbell, a water bucket drops on your head, you hear laughter from behind the door,

your friend answers (laughing) tells you the party is over, kicks you in the balls, spits on your face and pushes you down the stairs and tells you "you should have come prepared bro" "LOL TEARS"
yea that's how i'd describe it.


Ha, now that did actually make me chuckle some Big smile

Jokes aside, you were way to trusting of your friend. It still does need explaining why CCP should protect you in null.

**Vherokior **
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#74 - 2013-11-09 14:49:07 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
no this event was similar to:

a friend invites you to a party
it takes 15 mins to get there,
on your way there your friend calls you and tells you the party has been relocated 25 km from where you are, the location is unsettling but being that is your childhood friend you trust him,
you start driving there, but lose direction of where to go so you call your friend to tell you "he leads you one way and then the other" finally, loads of heavy traffic on the road so it takes you 2 hours to get there
You arrive on the frontyard, the sprinklers turn on full and a doberman comes and bites you in the balls, you manage to make it to the door, you ring the doorbell, a water bucket drops on your head, you hear laughter from behind the door,

your friend answers (laughing) tells you the party is over, kicks you in the balls, spits on your face and pushes you down the stairs and tells you "you should have come prepared bro" "LOL TEARS"
yea that's how i'd describe it.


Ha, now that did actually make me chuckle some Big smile

Jokes aside, you were way to trusting of your friend. It still does need explaining why CCP should protect you in null.


Yeah, the fact they ARE A GAME COMPANY and that we pay their wages, Might just give us the impression that they might not awox us for giggles.

Foolish Me

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#75 - 2013-11-09 14:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Anomaly One
basically this^

it seems people think that players should NOT in fact trust the gaming companies? should we now regard CCP as one of the playerbase that is out to scam us? because if I recall game devs are the "gods" in this virtual gaming world and when they interfere it's regarded as "GOD INTERVENTION" if this had been a play by null sec players leading high sec players to their doom I would jsut go grr goons because it's the nature of the sandbox, but CCP leading us there? The information on the event was extremely scarce, half the event chat didn't even get the information on the destination I know because I had 10 chat windows open and I got the info on those 10 chats from multiple resources and none of them were provided by CCP they posted in local for a minute and then left

We know we were out to die, we know we were disorganized, we did not expect a fighting chance, we expected to have FUN with CCP, nothing big nothing small just some nice chat with the devs while going on the destination and some fun shoot outs while dying, instead what we got was this ****, going 1 by 1 on a gate "jump little carebear jump" and died (this was the first wave)

Where null sec where like a stack of billiard balls, we weren't we were divided CCP where the white ball and they came and hit us right in the center to break us to pieces even more.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#76 - 2013-11-09 14:57:18 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:

it seems people think that players should NOT in fact trust the gaming companies? should we now regard CCP as one of the playerbase that is out to scam us? because if I recall game devs are the "gods" in this virtual gaming world and when they interfere it's regarded as "GOD INTERVENTION" if this had been a play by null sec players leading high sec players to their doom I would jsut go grr goons because it's the nature of the sandbox, but CCP leading us there?



That is exactly what people are beginning to think.

Are they that out of control?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#77 - 2013-11-09 15:02:06 UTC
Unsub then? They don't have to look after you.

And if you let Goons lead you into null you definitely deserve to be podded.

**Vherokior **
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-11-09 15:15:54 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Unsub then? They don't have to look after you.

And if you let Goons lead you into null you definitely deserve to be podded.



from all I said, this is what you got.
Because CCP is goons amiright? wait now you will reply that I said CCP is ruled by goons which I didn't but that's what your mind read.
Already unsubbed. 14 days left/24 november 10:35 am.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#79 - 2013-11-09 15:33:25 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Unsub then? They don't have to look after you.

And if you let Goons lead you into null you definitely deserve to be podded.



from all I said, this is what you got.
Because CCP is goons amiright? wait now you will reply that I said CCP is ruled by goons which I didn't but that's what your mind read.
Already unsubbed. 14 days left/24 november 10:35 am.


Cool, I hope you find a game that you enjoy more.

Aside from that we may have misunderstood each other on the goons point, so I apologise for that.

Good luck in your next venture.

**Vherokior **
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#80 - 2013-11-09 15:38:32 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
(Whiteknighting CCP)


Thanks for taking the time to put together such well considered feedback. We really appreciate it and will take these points on board in our retrospective on the event.


Heh, quoting myself:

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Lemming Alpha1dash1 wrote:
PS: here is a way to better understand the grievances

http://jestertrek.blogspot.nl/2013/11/backfire.html

The attackers expected a CCP-run live event. Instead to net it out, the attacker's position is that they...
•were left by the event organizers to fend for themselves;
•were not given adequate instructions on what to do;
•were not organized into effective fleets;
•were not led by trustworthy FCs; and,
•that CCP in essence led a couple of thousand EVE players into a deathtrap from which there was no escape.
And then to add insult to injury, CCP subjected them to 23 jumps of 10% TiDi.


I'm sure that CCP is already figuring a way to spin that in a positive light. Roll


I don't know what your team pretended, CCP Goliath. But delivering hiseccers PvE hisec content is a way, way, WAY safer way to make them enjoy your efforts than throw them into nullsec in the worst possible way.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you