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To floggeth a dead horse...eth

First post
Author
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#41 - 2013-11-08 18:03:58 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to put together such well considered feedback. We really appreciate it and will take these points on board in our retrospective on the event.



Picks one of the least critical, least representative, and dumbest posts about the event and chooses to comment on that post, because :CCP:.


I actually commented on it because it was well written, contained constructive points in terms of what we could improve on as well as what we did well (people sometimes forget that as well as improving what you did wrong, keeping the good elements consistent is key) and was written in a polite, balanced tone. There are plenty of other more negative posts that also share the validity and tone of this message and we're working our way through them. If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.


No, you picked it because it was the only post that contained criticism which in no way implied ****-poor reasoning on CCP's part. You did nothing, NOTHING well regarding this event.

The time frame ostracised most players with a life, the event info was poorly distributed over too many platforms, the in-game event organisers were quite confused about the intended goal of the event (showcasing features or building lore, which are the ONLY two VALID reasons to organize events players can't organize themselves), and the fact you ingnore any negative criticism that doesn't come from the Null-Bloc-Elected CSM proves that your PR department has absolutely no clue how to do their job shot of keeping the players from blowing their last gasket and cancelling their subscription.

At the very least, stop lying to us and have the decency to return to the uninvolved WAI broken beatures loot-spew supporting version of CCP we're used to dealing with instead of implying you're actually trying to find out what went wrong when the list most definitely can't be handled within the RAM of your reinforced server nodes you never seem to deploy.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#42 - 2013-11-08 18:10:11 UTC
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to put together such well considered feedback. We really appreciate it and will take these points on board in our retrospective on the event.



Picks one of the least critical, least representative, and dumbest posts about the event and chooses to comment on that post, because :CCP:.


I actually commented on it because it was well written, contained constructive points in terms of what we could improve on as well as what we did well (people sometimes forget that as well as improving what you did wrong, keeping the good elements consistent is key) and was written in a polite, balanced tone. There are plenty of other more negative posts that also share the validity and tone of this message and we're working our way through them. If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.


No, you picked it because it was the only post that contained criticism which in no way implied ****-poor reasoning on CCP's part. You did nothing, NOTHING well regarding this event.

The time frame ostracised most players with a life, the event info was poorly distributed over too many platforms, the in-game event organisers were quite confused about the intended goal of the event (showcasing features or building lore, which are the ONLY two VALID reasons to organize events players can't organize themselves), and the fact you ingnore any negative criticism that doesn't come from the Null-Bloc-Elected CSM proves that your PR department has absolutely no clue how to do their job shot of keeping the players from blowing their last gasket and cancelling their subscription.

At the very least, stop lying to us and have the decency to return to the uninvolved WAI broken beatures loot-spew supporting version of CCP we're used to dealing with instead of implying you're actually trying to find out what went wrong when the list most definitely can't be handled within the RAM of your reinforced server nodes you never seem to deploy.


Your logic is, ironically, scuzzy

Also a small Europe based company holding an event in European hours? Shock and horror!

Let me ask you what did you actually loose on this event? Did you actually loose anything irreplaceable?

**Vherokior **

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#43 - 2013-11-08 18:13:33 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.

Instead of being focused on those who choose to 'rage post' (which actually indicates there's still some interest in EVE left), you might instead consider those that will silently 'rage quit', never attend another Live event and almost certainly never venture into low or null-sec again. Be happy that players are still interacting on some level; but don't be surprised if the magnitude of this fiasco takes weeks or months to be fully realized.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#44 - 2013-11-08 18:14:08 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Also a small Europe based company holding an event in European hours? Shock and horror!


The fact that half their playerbase is in North America and yet they have yet to figure out how to hold an event during a time when NA players with jobs and/or school can attend is in fact very shocking.


N'maro Makari wrote:
I enjoy constructive posting.


You've got something brown on your nose.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#45 - 2013-11-08 18:17:28 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.

Instead of being focused on those who choose to 'rage post' (which actually indicates there's still some interest in EVE left), you might instead consider those that will silently 'rage quit', never attend another Live event and almost certainly never venture into low or null-sec again. Be happy that players are still interacting on some level; but don't be surprised if the magnitude of this fiasco takes weeks or months to be fully realized.


I think you radically overestimate how much people are angry and underestimate how many "ragequitters" will probably be at the next event. And to be frank, the type of people that will rage and huff in hisec should never even have gone to null in the first place!

**Vherokior **

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#46 - 2013-11-08 18:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Also a small Europe based company holding an event in European hours? Shock and horror!


The fact that half their playerbase is in North America and yet they have yet to figure out how to hold an event during a time when NA players with jobs and/or school can attend is in fact very shocking.


N'maro Makari wrote:
I enjoy constructive posting.


You've got something brown on your nose.


Hatred originating from disreputable gentlemen is going to continually persist

In response to the part where you're not getting your undergarments tangled, yes, a lot of the playerbase is in North America. It would be a good pr move if they held some events closer to NA hours, but they don't. And what confuses me is that a few people, such as yourself, seem to think they are contractually obligated to give you one.

**Vherokior **

Collin Max
#47 - 2013-11-08 18:31:40 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
So, I got beaten to it with the thread poasting on the recent live event, (woe is me!) but going to anyways because I think it deserves a little broader discussion.


I agree to a certain degree with you. Thank you for giving rational feedback tho.
Still all that rage is right in many ways and even as a '06 player and quite a big supporter of CCP i can not talk this event any better than what it actually was: bad.

Live events get quite a lot of numbers, CCP could consider doing several smaller events to introduce smaller content. If many thousands of players are coming to an event, CCP should be brave enough and add the big ******* key to it. Wether it's a crashed Titan that remains, or a burned wreck of a major caldari station. Any eve player can handle any loss when there was enough means to it.

For the sake of it, at least permanently put lots of wrecks at those gates?
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#48 - 2013-11-08 18:34:50 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
I actually commented on it because it was well written, contained constructive points in terms of what we could improve on as well as what we did well (people sometimes forget that as well as improving what you did wrong, keeping the good elements consistent is key) and was written in a polite, balanced tone. There are plenty of other more negative posts that also share the validity and tone of this message and we're working our way through them. If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.


You must admit that finding the *first* dev comment on the *only* post who actually considered the event more positive than negative (except for the trolling about "so much fun slaughtering whatever moved") isn't exactly going to look good. Also, despite several other balanced posts, that point out the flaws without "rageposting" and that motivate the entire argumentation.... no other post has been singled out.
When you've got 500 posts complaining, and one saying "was fun!", and you choose to single out that single one.... well, put yourself in our shoes. What would _you_ think?

In fact you don't have to admit it. You don't have to do anything. But I suggest you try to measure the amount of displeasure this caused. CCP has underestimated the community's "rageposting" twice already (jita siege and that lottery incident oh so much time ago) and both times it led to quite ferocious reactions.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#49 - 2013-11-08 18:37:51 UTC
Killerjock wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
I actually commented on it because it was well written, contained constructive points in terms of what we could improve on as well as what we did well (people sometimes forget that as well as improving what you did wrong, keeping the good elements consistent is key) and was written in a polite, balanced tone. There are plenty of other more negative posts that also share the validity and tone of this message and we're working our way through them. If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.


You must admit that finding the *first* dev comment on the *only* post who actually considered the event more positive than negative (except for the trolling about "so much fun slaughtering whatever moved") isn't exactly going to look good. Also, despite several other balanced posts, that point out the flaws without "rageposting" and that motivate the entire argumentation.... no other post has been singled out.
When you've got 500 posts complaining, and one saying "was fun!", and you choose to single out that single one.... well, put yourself in our shoes. What would _you_ think?

In fact you don't have to admit it. You don't have to do anything. But I suggest you try to measure the amount of displeasure this caused. CCP has underestimated the community's "rageposting" twice already (jita siege and that lottery incident oh so much time ago) and both times it led to quite ferocious reactions.


Well first of all, did the rageposting and quitting actually win you anything?

Second, as I am going nearly insomniac saying, there at least 2 other threads on this event, both negative with CCP input.

**Vherokior **

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#50 - 2013-11-08 18:41:02 UTC
I really like the idea of littering those gates, and the final destinations, with some permanent wrecks - +1 Collin Max. Maybe some nice bright nebulas where the souls of the crews lost in space can be seen howling their mournful cries. That's an excellent idea.

Not too close to the gate though. Hard enough getting through as it is, without having to worry about garbage around them popping gate cloak!
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#51 - 2013-11-08 18:45:09 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Second, as I am going nearly insomniac saying, there at least 2 other threads on this event, both negative with CCP input.


In one thread the CCP post was claiming that the playerbase simply "misunderstood" the event and the other was on a relatively minor thread about the age of the NPC characters. So no, my original post in this thread still stands.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#52 - 2013-11-08 18:51:30 UTC
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Second, as I am going nearly insomniac saying, there at least 2 other threads on this event, both negative with CCP input.


In one thread the CCP post was claiming that the playerbase simply "misunderstood" the event and the other was on a relatively minor thread about the age of the NPC characters. So no, my original post in this thread still stands.


I the same way a flamingo with broken legs might still stand bloody, splintered stubs, but yeah sure.

CCP Goliath wrote:
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.


That's your smoking gun? Really?

Some people seem to think, again, that CCP is contractually obligated to give them exactly what they want on a silver platter. I'd say that's a pretty big misunderstanding, not to mention the fact that nobody made anyone go to null.

**Vherokior **

marlinspike von Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-11-08 19:07:01 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Second, as I am going nearly insomniac saying, there at least 2 other threads on this event, both negative with CCP input.


In one thread the CCP post was claiming that the playerbase simply "misunderstood" the event and the other was on a relatively minor thread about the age of the NPC characters. So no, my original post in this thread still stands.


I the same way a flamingo with broken legs might still stand bloody, splintered stubs, but yeah sure.

CCP Goliath wrote:
Just dropping in to say thanks for giving us this feedback. We haven't had time to go through it all yet, but we will be doing so as a team and taking a lot of points on board to shape our work in the future. We will also be explaining some things to clear up some misunderstandings we have been noticing. Thanks for your time and patience.


That's your smoking gun? Really?

Some people seem to think, again, that CCP is contractually obligated to give them exactly what they want on a silver platter. I'd say that's a pretty big misunderstanding, not to mention the fact that nobody made anyone go to null.

I think you are right to say that CCP is not obligated to provide anything to anyone; but if they are going to run an event then they should make sure that it dose not waste everyons time, and that is what i think most people are upset about, that they had their time wasted for no good reason.
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#54 - 2013-11-08 19:41:15 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
I the same way a flamingo with broken legs might still stand bloody, splintered stubs, but yeah sure.


Did CCP give you an Ishukone Watch Scorpion too?
Herbinator d'Arcadie
Arkadian Knight
#55 - 2013-11-08 20:02:25 UTC
I love the idea of Concord Excursions into null sec in pursuit of the lawless inhabitants and their structures. It is kinda like Incursions.

That wasn't it though.

"Block" pigs. Refuse to fly with them.

Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#56 - 2013-11-08 20:19:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Scuzzy Logic
N'maro Makari wrote:
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to put together such well considered feedback. We really appreciate it and will take these points on board in our retrospective on the event.



Picks one of the least critical, least representative, and dumbest posts about the event and chooses to comment on that post, because :CCP:.


I actually commented on it because it was well written, contained constructive points in terms of what we could improve on as well as what we did well (people sometimes forget that as well as improving what you did wrong, keeping the good elements consistent is key) and was written in a polite, balanced tone. There are plenty of other more negative posts that also share the validity and tone of this message and we're working our way through them. If anyone thinks rageposting is the best way to draw attention to a problem that they want fixed, they need to revise their approach.


No, you picked it because it was the only post that contained criticism which in no way implied ****-poor reasoning on CCP's part. You did nothing, NOTHING well regarding this event.

The time frame ostracised most players with a life, the event info was poorly distributed over too many platforms, the in-game event organisers were quite confused about the intended goal of the event (showcasing features or building lore, which are the ONLY two VALID reasons to organize events players can't organize themselves), and the fact you ingnore any negative criticism that doesn't come from the Null-Bloc-Elected CSM proves that your PR department has absolutely no clue how to do their job shot of keeping the players from blowing their last gasket and cancelling their subscription.

At the very least, stop lying to us and have the decency to return to the uninvolved WAI broken beatures loot-spew supporting version of CCP we're used to dealing with instead of implying you're actually trying to find out what went wrong when the list most definitely can't be handled within the RAM of your reinforced server nodes you never seem to deploy.


Your logic is, ironically, scuzzy

Also a small Europe based company holding an event in European hours? Shock and horror!

Let me ask you what did you actually loose on this event? Did you actually loose anything irreplaceable?


The only thing that got loosened was my grasp on sanity after doing 6 jumps at 10% TiDi just to get out of that node. I then proceeded to take the long, uncamped route to the destination system, which by the time I was halfway there (in a prowler, wanted to black ops cyno people there, plus it goes at interdictor speed) had been dev-stroyed because they knew the event was a failure.

All-in-all, I lost a ton of time I could have spent mining the deserted ice spawns.

Edit: Also, regarding the European hours, it would help to notice putting the event at 5:50 Eastern standard time would make the majority of players able to reach it (besides californian/hawaIIan players), assuming their bedtime is past 10.
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#57 - 2013-11-08 23:17:22 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Well first of all, did the rageposting and quitting actually win you anything?


You're barking at the wrong tree. I didn't do either; I provided my feedback as level-minded and detailed/informative as I could.

I did not say "it sucked" - I expressed exactly what was the problem in my opinion and what was handled in an unacceptable way. Just because you've done the same this does not entitle you to judge or define another's posts or behaviour - especially without reading them, as I would assume (and I'd be surprised if you did - going to find my posts through the threadnought is gonna be a nightmare).
There's pretty much a consensus here - excepting you, and maybe one or two others - that the event was a total failure and that it will have a backlash. Even the nullseccers (those who are not trolling) are basically on the same line.
Hell, THE MITTANI claimed the points we made in the threadnought were valid. Jester's Trek says the same.

But CCP commented your post first. ONE person against the entire community.
Reverse the situation. What would you have tought? And even if they made up for this by commenting the other thread - put yourself in our shoes. What would YOU have thought?
I don't hold that against them and frankly it isn't of any concern to me what post they comment - but can you really say others have no right to be annoyed by this?

Quote:
Second, as I am going nearly insomniac saying, there at least 2 other threads on this event, both negative with CCP input.


The fact they answered does not conclude the argument. They answered saying "hey thanks, sorry you got it wrong." No point has been addressed and certainly no post has been singled out like yours did, despite some being extremely detailed and thoughtful.
There's outrage mounting. People are angry. I'm getting angry too, and I'm not usually one to get angry easily - I've even posted on another thread that we don't need to make a capital offense of this whole mess ;) At this point, >24 hours have passed and we haven't had as much as a "sorry for the mishap, we'll explain eventually".

What we had is a "thanks for the feedback, glad you enjoyed it, sorry if you didn't get it."

I'm glad you're happy. But I'm not, so just don't tell me I should be. It's just one more time waste for you, and for me.
I think an explanation is due, and the sooner the better.
Tara Tyrael
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
#58 - 2013-11-09 00:15:00 UTC
Sneaky Jack wrote:

Null sec is DEAD and WILL be DEAD and not more people but LESS will even take an interest on it.

Wrong

Sneaky Jack wrote:

Second if NULL was so good . .WHY OH WHY do you have ALTS in highsec ???? could it be because you need to make ISKIES?? buy stuff ? get mats? etc etc etc ??

Well, I wouldn't mind if Jita station along with it's market would be moved in 0.0, it's there because of you, not because off null people

Sneaky Jack wrote:

you see the OPPOSITE does not apply, Bears have no alts in NULL !

I'm a bear, with fat multiple hundred bill wallet and all accounts plexed for many months ahead, and I have null alt (well, going to move him in wormhole to chech whats happening there, but just proving the point you are wrong)

Sneaky Jack wrote:

But the point being that this "event " was nothing short of a major debacle that will only introduce newbie players to the bad side of PvP and Null sec.

Do agree on that, tidi was awful.

Sneaky Jack wrote:

This was CCP throwing you a bone. nothing else.

was this GOOD FOR EVE ? that is the question, NOT if was good for NULL
this answer will be given to you in the form of Newbie players staying totally OUT of null. so enjoy.

AND that I can tell you from the 5 or 6 newbies I spoke to.

RUMINATE on that .

This is EVE, if you think you can do what ever you want if you are a newbie, go back to WoW or something similar. Newbies might want to stay out of null for now, but might grow interest later. Tackle frigates are immersible fun to fly and low sp and you can have fun, and almost any fleet / corp / alliance will always provide tackle frigates for free.

So the real issue here remain:
1) TIDI was making this very bad user experience due to slow gameplay.
2) CCP made us travel 30+ jumps under that TIDI.
3) Live events are still not explained very good.
* Would be nice to have in-game channel with few representatives for each empire / pirate factions who can
recommend good FC's and fleets to new joining players, something like ISD, just give them some other color in
text. Most of players in EVE have no idea what live events are and how to join them.
* There isn't like general guide site, I'm playing this game for 3 years and took me like several hours to find out what, where,
why and how for the first event I was trying to join... Something wrong there.
4) Give just a tad more information next time, we all knew we could die and that, but really? 30 jumps to staging? Really? And then event is over BEFORE 50ish % of people even have time to get in.


darmwand
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#59 - 2013-11-09 03:58:49 UTC
It's a bit sad to see the reactions from the player base. I mean sure, from what I've read the event didn't quite go as anticipated and it seems that there was a lot of confusion and poor communications, but still, CCP were trying to do something fun and I'm sure they'll learn from their mistakes. It's not like they're obliged to do these events and I think that by sending constructive feedback rather than "**** you CCP you suck" we can encourage them to do better next time.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#60 - 2013-11-09 08:43:04 UTC
Erm.

So subjecting well over 1000 players to excruciating TiDi, misinforming them or failing to altogether at different times, leading them to their destruction, that even the stupidest, newest, player who even read one post on the internet would know that without support,would be a fracking disaster.


CCP dumped and ran.

Not as anticipated? No they were CCP'd

They were simply used as party entertainment.

Quafe Strippers and Human Sacrifice.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE