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Probably the WORST event I've wasted my time on in my 10 years of EVE ...

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Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1261 - 2013-11-15 11:21:46 UTC
I'm not tech savvy, but can't "nodes be reinforced", ( don't know if that's the right term to use ), before AND during, when it's needed?

Doesn't seem to show that CCP had prepared for this event at all. And it seems that the CCP staff running the event, don't even know how to play the very game they are working on. ( Not that I'm saying that I know how to excel at Eve, infact I actually suck at it SadOops ).

FYI, I did not participate in this event.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1262 - 2013-11-15 11:41:14 UTC
Depends what they mean by reinforced, if their hardware is virtualised they could take the test servers offline and throw the resources at the live servers, but it all depends on the hardware setup etc...its not as easy as it sounds :D
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1263 - 2013-11-15 11:47:57 UTC
just a thought, the event fed a bunch of us hi-sec folks to battle-hardened combat pilots en-masse which was basically a turkey shoot and I can't imagine it was really that much fun for the null-sec folks (where was the challenge?)

If they did this the other way around however with limited flow of null-sec fleets getting through to hi-sec to plunder an empire base *that* could be interesting, the advantage of the better pilot skills/ships of the null-seccers would be mitigated by the numbers of hi-sec folks waiting for them.

I'm not thinking of a way to feed null-secs into a grinding mill here, everything else I have previously said about random insert points etc (easily done with a worm-hole exit point whipping around in hi-sec. This would however give the hi-secs a chance to be organized and test the null-secs skills against much bigger fleets than usual. This would also spread combat across many systems to ease TiDi effects. Would make more sense in lore terms to, with capsuleer incursions into empire space.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#1264 - 2013-11-15 11:55:08 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
just a thought, the event fed a bunch of us hi-sec folks to battle-hardened combat pilots en-masse which was basically a turkey shoot and I can't imagine it was really that much fun for the null-sec folks (where was the challenge?)

If they did this the other way around however with limited flow of null-sec fleets getting through to hi-sec to plunder an empire base *that* could be interesting, the advantage of the better pilot skills/ships of the null-seccers would be mitigated by the numbers of hi-sec folks waiting for them.

I'm not thinking of a way to feed null-secs into a grinding mill here, everything else I have previously said about random insert points etc (easily done with a worm-hole exit point whipping around in hi-sec. This would however give the hi-secs a chance to be organized and test the null-secs skills against much bigger fleets than usual. This would also spread combat across many systems to ease TiDi effects. Would make more sense in lore terms to, with capsuleer incursions into empire space.


With that you would essentially be telling people in whatever system to either join in or GTFO while the LE is in progress. Once you get Null Bloc entities into Hi-Sec (I'm not saying that they don't get in now) but imagine if you will -10's being granted a "safe time passage" to Hi-Sec and the carnage they could do if they ignored the LE Fleet\Objective and went on a rampage instead.

Just something to consider.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1265 - 2013-11-15 12:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
true, there would need to be some mechanism to keep the fleets in place, not allow them free reign...large CONDORD fleets to create a cordon or something, capsuleers as the cutting edge to *attempt* to take the null-seccers out

if its a wormhole then the time open would be finite too so a null sec fleet if not careful could have to fight their way back through CONCORD hell (if at all)

just trying to think of better ways to run these events that can include everyone but in a more balanced way
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#1266 - 2013-11-15 12:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
just a thought, the event fed a bunch of us hi-sec folks to battle-hardened combat pilots en-masse which was basically a turkey shoot and I can't imagine it was really that much fun for the null-sec folks (where was the challenge?)

If they did this the other way around however with limited flow of null-sec fleets getting through to hi-sec to plunder an empire base *that* could be interesting, the advantage of the better pilot skills/ships of the null-seccers would be mitigated by the numbers of hi-sec folks waiting for them.

I'm not thinking of a way to feed null-secs into a grinding mill here, everything else I have previously said about random insert points etc (easily done with a worm-hole exit point whipping around in hi-sec. This would however give the hi-secs a chance to be organized and test the null-secs skills against much bigger fleets than usual. This would also spread combat across many systems to ease TiDi effects. Would make more sense in lore terms to, with capsuleer incursions into empire space.


With that you would essentially be telling people in whatever system to either join in or GTFO while the LE is in progress. Once you get Null Bloc entities into Hi-Sec (I'm not saying that they don't get in now) but imagine if you will -10's being granted a "safe time passage" to Hi-Sec and the carnage they could do if they ignored the LE Fleet\Objective and went on a rampage instead.

Just something to consider.


An edit and thought update on this was this is exactly what happened with the The Battle for Caldari Prime so it's not unprecedented and everyone in the system was flagged with suspect timers. I guess whichever way you look at this giving any one side immunity from damage or "safe passage" is not wanted by either side but the ability to take part in one way or another is but the effect of giving -10's would far more adversely affect the playerbase than Titan Bridging a Hi-Sec Kitchen Sink fleet into Null I think but still some things to think about.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#1267 - 2013-11-15 12:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
just trying to think of better ways to run these events that can include everyone but in a more balanced way


This I think is what we all would like and are trying to do and it's a good to see some people really getting into "What would make this better...." thinking mode.

Great stuff, I have to say. Possibly swing by the Dev Blog and add your thoughts in there as well (if CCP Goliath with grant you an audience that is RollBlink) as I believe that's where they are looking mostly.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1268 - 2013-11-15 12:16:40 UTC
I'm new so have never seen these events before, however there has to be a better way to stage them as feeding hi-secs into null is going to result in lots and lots of dead hi-sec clones...even if you survived whats the chance of a hi-sec egetting back through null with a full cargo hold when the route is known in advance?

Makes it pointless for the hi-secs to join.

There also need to be other kinds of events, EVE isn't just about combat. A large part of the player base will be explorers/miners/industrials. These should be catered for too. Ghost sites will be like mini events from what I've seen but will be rare and you will need to be skilled/lucky to gain from them. This I think will benefit the already rich and skilled players far more. Events should be created for all levels of players to maintain balance.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#1269 - 2013-11-15 12:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I'm new so have never seen these events before, however there has to be a better way to stage them as feeding hi-secs into null is going to result in lots and lots of dead hi-sec clones...even if you survived whats the chance of a hi-sec egetting back through null with a full cargo hold when the route is known in advance?

Makes it pointless for the hi-secs to join.

There also need to be other kinds of events, EVE isn't just about combat. A large part of the player base will be explorers/miners/industrials. These should be catered for too. Ghost sites will be like mini events from what I've seen but will be rare and you will need to be skilled/lucky to gain from them. This I think will benefit the already rich and skilled players far more. Events should be created for all levels of players to maintain balance.


The only ever LE I've made it to and IMHO the best thus far was the Sanctuary Image Contest. It ran for three weeks, you had a week to complete it and while the destinations were there for all to see people were smart, researched least active times and used intel to get in and get those pictures without dying. I got as far as week one due to IRL time constraints but it was awesome. Got a Zephr out of it for my efforts.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1270 - 2013-11-15 14:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I'm new so have never seen these events before, however there has to be a better way to stage them as feeding hi-secs into null is going to result in lots and lots of dead hi-sec clones...even if you survived whats the chance of a hi-sec egetting back through null with a full cargo hold when the route is known in advance?

Makes it pointless for the hi-secs to join.

There also need to be other kinds of events, EVE isn't just about combat. A large part of the player base will be explorers/miners/industrials. These should be catered for too. Ghost sites will be like mini events from what I've seen but will be rare and you will need to be skilled/lucky to gain from them. This I think will benefit the already rich and skilled players far more. Events should be created for all levels of players to maintain balance.


The only ever LE I've made it to and IMHO the best thus far was the Sanctuary Image Contest. It ran for three weeks, you had a week to complete it and while the destinations were there for all to see people were smart, researched least active times and used intel to get in and get those pictures without dying. I got as far as week one due to IRL time constraints but it was awesome. Got a Zephr out of it for my efforts.


Corraidhin and Maximus.

I am pretty sure it is clear that when CCP do "bite size" events they can go really well.
it is the giant game-spanning events which involve thousands that have the potential (and often/always do) turn into Gigantic clusterfracks.

One lesson I hope is being learned is that trying to use the existing tools and trying to control thousands of disparate players with totally different expectations is just not going to end well.Shocked

Your Ideas (and mine) regarding breaking the events into small mini events hit the mark ,giving everyone a chance to do something, ie. mining manufacturing etc etc leading to a major final conflict, that CCP limit the numbers to either by players succeeding at the mini-events and earning a right of entry or the result of all of the mini-events deciding the size.

The other option is to run a week long event, that players enter and it concludes a week later, seperate from normal space running on separate equipment.
CCP creates a sandbox with separate rules and rewards to normal EvE and it is up to the players as to what they make of it.
player behavior will determine the result. And if it Fracks up tzhe players did it to themselves.
I posted thoughts earlier that give more details. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3878026#post3878026

CCP can do either or both of these but the live events as they stand, are just setting themselves up for disaster.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#1271 - 2013-11-15 14:55:04 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I'm new so have never seen these events before, however there has to be a better way to stage them as feeding hi-secs into null is going to result in lots and lots of dead hi-sec clones...even if you survived whats the chance of a hi-sec egetting back through null with a full cargo hold when the route is known in advance?

Makes it pointless for the hi-secs to join.

There also need to be other kinds of events, EVE isn't just about combat. A large part of the player base will be explorers/miners/industrials. These should be catered for too. Ghost sites will be like mini events from what I've seen but will be rare and you will need to be skilled/lucky to gain from them. This I think will benefit the already rich and skilled players far more. Events should be created for all levels of players to maintain balance.


The only ever LE I've made it to and IMHO the best thus far was the Sanctuary Image Contest. It ran for three weeks, you had a week to complete it and while the destinations were there for all to see people were smart, researched least active times and used intel to get in and get those pictures without dying. I got as far as week one due to IRL time constraints but it was awesome. Got a Zephr out of it for my efforts.


Corraidhin and Maximus.

I am pretty sure it is clear that when CCP do "bite size" events they can go really well.
it is the giant game-spanning events which involve thousands that have the potential (and often/always do) turn into Gigantic clusterfracks.

One lesson I hope is being learned is that trying to use the existing tools and trying to control thousands of disparate players with totally different expectations is just not going to end well.Shocked

Your Ideas (and mine) regarding breaking the events into small mini events hit the mark ,giving everyone a chance to do something, ie. mining manufacturing etc etc leading to a major final conflict, that CCP limit the numbers to either by players succeeding at the mini-events and earning a right of entry or the result of all of the mini-events deciding the size.

The other option is to run a week long event, that players enter and it concludes a week later, seperate from normal space running on separate equipment.
CCP creates a sandbox with separate rules and rewards to normal EvE and it is up to the players as to what they make of it.
player behavior will determine the result. And if it Fracks up tzhe players did it to themselves.
I posted thoughts earlier that give more details. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3878026#post3878026

CCP can do either or both of these but the live events as they stand, are just setting themselves up for disaster.


I don't think removing the Live Events from the sandbox into an arena is really in the spirit of why people want to do them. I agree that smaller scale multi-discipline events all culminating into some larger encompassing event that drives the lore would be a much better way to go and this could run over weeks\months in the build up.

I think they should really try this style before committing to another massive LE and perhaps see how many do attend each part and base the "projected attendance" of the culmination event off of this.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1272 - 2013-11-15 15:01:54 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I'm new so have never seen these events before, however there has to be a better way to stage them as feeding hi-secs into null is going to result in lots and lots of dead hi-sec clones...even if you survived whats the chance of a hi-sec egetting back through null with a full cargo hold when the route is known in advance?

Makes it pointless for the hi-secs to join.

There also need to be other kinds of events, EVE isn't just about combat. A large part of the player base will be explorers/miners/industrials. These should be catered for too. Ghost sites will be like mini events from what I've seen but will be rare and you will need to be skilled/lucky to gain from them. This I think will benefit the already rich and skilled players far more. Events should be created for all levels of players to maintain balance.


The only ever LE I've made it to and IMHO the best thus far was the Sanctuary Image Contest. It ran for three weeks, you had a week to complete it and while the destinations were there for all to see people were smart, researched least active times and used intel to get in and get those pictures without dying. I got as far as week one due to IRL time constraints but it was awesome. Got a Zephr out of it for my efforts.


Corraidhin and Maximus.

I am pretty sure it is clear that when CCP do "bite size" events they can go really well.
it is the giant game-spanning events which involve thousands that have the potential (and often/always do) turn into Gigantic clusterfracks.

One lesson I hope is being learned is that trying to use the existing tools and trying to control thousands of disparate players with totally different expectations is just not going to end well.Shocked

Your Ideas (and mine) regarding breaking the events into small mini events hit the mark ,giving everyone a chance to do something, ie. mining manufacturing etc etc leading to a major final conflict, that CCP limit the numbers to either by players succeeding at the mini-events and earning a right of entry or the result of all of the mini-events deciding the size.

The other option is to run a week long event, that players enter and it concludes a week later, seperate from normal space running on separate equipment.
CCP creates a sandbox with separate rules and rewards to normal EvE and it is up to the players as to what they make of it.
player behavior will determine the result. And if it Fracks up tzhe players did it to themselves.
I posted thoughts earlier that give more details. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3878026#post3878026

CCP can do either or both of these but the live events as they stand, are just setting themselves up for disaster.


I don't think removing the Live Events from the sandbox into an arena is really in the spirit of why people want to do them. I agree that smaller scale multi-discipline events all culminating into some larger encompassing event that drives the lore would be a much better way to go and this could run over weeks\months in the build up.

I think they should really try this style before committing to another massive LE and perhaps see how many do attend each part and base the "projected attendance" of the culmination event off of this.


Sorry I was editing the second part to include this link, I'll put it here instead.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3876717#post3876717 that I think shows the build up type of event.


Over all I am trying to say that there are a number of ways to work around the issues they have. The sandbox idea was for If they still have the need to go "mega" with lots of exciting clips and drama without blowing up their existing systems.

These are purely vehicles for thought, not by any way intended to be finished processes.
Pick what you like from them if you find any good ideas, and you can expand on them if you wish?.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1273 - 2013-11-15 16:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
I really like the idea of multiple smaller events giving access to a final event based on previous success, means anyone can take part and those that prove their worth can get into the final area, with the greater rewards it brings...would give a much greater sense of achievement I think.

Large events should only be in response to player driven events like the one that made the news...though CCP would just love to recreate it they can't as it isn't possible to forcibly organize large groups of people. The massive battle that took place did so because two major combatants organized themselves...

regular events culminating in mid-scale fleet battles/research/explo would be much better for everyone and could run much more often
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#1274 - 2013-11-15 16:36:26 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I really like the idea of multiple smaller events giving access to a final event based on previous success, means anyone can take part and those that prove their worth can get into the final area, with the greater rewards it brings...would give a much greater sense of achievement I think.

Large events should only be in response to player driven events like the one that made the news...though CCP would just love to recreate it they can't as it isn't possible to forcibly organize large groups of people. The massive battle that took place did so because two major combatants organized themselves...

regular events culminating in mid-scale fleet battles/research/explo would be much better for everyone and could run much more often


Quoted you in the Dev Blog feedback thread.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1275 - 2013-11-15 17:02:11 UTC
Please also mention that if CCP need any Oracle DBA's and storyline consultants I'd be happy to oblige...Lol
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#1276 - 2013-11-15 17:40:46 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
In the end, I'm not sure if I'd prefer that to them being malicious. At least if they were just being pricks, it would matter if we called them out on it. If they're really not sure how to run an event or even to fix issues within their game, what exactly can we say to make the situation better? They may really, honestly not know any better.


Totally Sig-ing this. This is my feelings towards post-Incarna CCP down to a fundamental level.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1277 - 2013-11-15 18:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Nexus Day wrote:
Is the new former EA guy doing due diligence? Is CCP trying to prove they can run live events like EA to be bought by them?




I certainly hope not.

The uber super duper huge mega bigger better faster more live events have proven so far to suck. The nodes can't handle them, the human resources to run them appear to be scarce and in the end, only a lucky few get to actually participate. Just because something is popular, does not mean you should try to bank on it while lacking resources. Doing so only creates situations like last week's debacle.

If 90 percent of the effort around a live event is just getting to participate, then you know it's being done wrong.

CCP, please do not go in this direction. If anybody took notes during the Sansha live events in 2010-2011, please dig them up and review them.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#1278 - 2013-11-15 18:59:11 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Please also mention that if CCP need any Oracle DBA's and storyline consultants I'd be happy to oblige...Lol

With all the TiDi surely EvE is running on MySQL...or perhaps an MS Access DB?

Would you like to know more?
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1279 - 2013-11-15 19:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Please also mention that if CCP need any Oracle DBA's and storyline consultants I'd be happy to oblige...Lol

With all the TiDi surely EvE is running on MySQL...or perhaps an MS Access DB?

>Microsoft hamsters.


Beta

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#1280 - 2013-11-15 22:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Wedgetail wrote:
the issue is they sided with hardware and digits over the state of their players, they prioritized their physical assets over their sentimental/intellectual ones and so harmed their players and themselves.

…

the issue is that for those of us who have done this before we know better, if they are continually let off for making these inadequate choices then they will continue to make them under the presumption that they will continue to work.


Here's an alternate explanation: we have a new live events team who have no experience in running large scale events such as Arek'Jalaan and the Sansha Incursion precursors. CCP Dropbear is no longer part of CCP, so that corpus of experience and dedication to dungeon mastery has to be re-acquired.

Rather than continually rubbing the dog's nose in the poo (which achieves nothing other than a neurotic dog who doesn't trust its master), you need to train the dog to poo in the yard. Note the points from that video:

  1. Supervision prevents accidents happening
  2. Encouraging proper behaviour: the easiest way is to reward the dog for pooping in the right place
  3. Correcting bad behaviour as it happens
  4. Have a schedule (i.e.: a plan, an expected pattern of behaviour)


Anyone who works with animals, children or adult humans will tell you that violence and negative reinforcement do not lead to positive outcomes. So please, stop using the harsh language, stop punishing the Live Event staff for trying to help you have fun. Look for ways that you can help the Live Events staff build a better experience for everyone.

Day 0 Advice for New Players