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Loot Spew 4 Months Later

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Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#321 - 2014-02-26 12:18:31 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Turelus wrote:
CCP Affinity will the entire of exploration be getting a once over or just the scatter cans mechanic?

I still feel that Ghost Sites would make more sense requiring probes as these are meant to be "super secret hidden sites" yet everyone in a system knows they're there.
We're also at the point where everyone is just tanking them and there is no danger left in them any more, if CCP wants to keep the "danger" in these sites they might want to improve the damage done or have it random damage types thus being untankable.

Grav sites could really do with going back to bring scanned sites (at least from my experience) because it removed the "prospecting" part of finding them as well as removing another layer of defence for NullSec miners.
Anomalies Grav Sites + Interceptors = terrible for NullSec mining.
It might be worth looking at the distribution of these sites as well to try and keep ore values in check.

On topic however the removal of scatter cans is something I can fully support, while I like that CCP want to encourage players to work together attempting to add mechanics which force it really feels against the nature of EVE.


I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites.

So who do we write to so you get promoted to head PVE fixing person of awesome? Because normally your posts reflect that you'd be pretty damn good in that role. Big smile

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#322 - 2014-02-27 10:53:09 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites.



I'd still really appreciate some kind of indication/confirmation that you will look at the loot tables for COSMOS sites as part of this tweak. There are items that don't even seem to be available in-game anymore but that are required materials for blueprints. One example is the Yan Jung Tachyon Stetoscope item that is required to be able to make the storyline large remote armor repairer. As somebody who enjoys building and collecting these items, this is extremely frustrating.

Not asking for any kind of overhaul to COSMOS sites in general (although lord knows they need one), but just for the correct loot to be seeded in the sites.

Many thanks.
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#323 - 2014-02-27 16:14:45 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:
Looking back, I have found nothing wrong with loot spew, cargo scan first then that will tell which containers to get, meerkat simples.


The question hasn't been whether it's doable or simple. Just that the mechanic is exceedingly annoying after completing a mini game already.


Bah! toughen up, this is EVE not "World of fluffy pink Bunnies" handing stuff to you on a plate.
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
#324 - 2014-02-27 17:41:02 UTC
simply play with 2 toons, place them on opposite sides of the can in a 750 to 1300 m distance and then just click with after burner on and speed set to 100 m/s. u wont miss more than 1 or 2 max.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#325 - 2014-02-28 09:45:06 UTC
Quote:
simply play with 2 toons


Really? What kind of game design it is if i have to play (and pay) on two accounts? Bring a friend they say, buy more accounts say another.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#326 - 2014-03-03 12:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
Quote:
I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites.


Wonder how will that rebalancing work in practice. No scatter means easier, and that usually means crappier loot or less sites.

On a related note, perhaps it would be better to not hand information "hey there is signature in this system" on a silver platter.

TBH when I peek over outdated wikis how exploration worked in the past, it kind of makes more sense (active probes limited to skill, signatures are not automatically listed - among other things).

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
Machagon
Amamake Anarchist Community College
#327 - 2014-03-03 15:28:29 UTC
I'm glad to see loot spew going, but I do think that it had some good effects that it would be a shame to throw out with the bathwater:

1. I love the introduction of cargo scanners into the exploration profession
2. I liked the aspect of having to be picky about which loot you go for

Taking the above together with my opinion (and it seems to be near consensus) that the hacking minigame is pretty great and should be iterated on, I propose adding more cores to each game and having each core hold a chunk of the loot. There could be four or five cores in each game, with names like "System Core (data)" and "System Core (parts)" The game then ends when you either die or defeat all cores. No replays.

Then, when you're done and open the can, the contents will be determined by which cores you manage to defeat. It would maintain the current advantages of the loot spew mechanic, while also adding more strategy and nail-biting to the hacking minigame.
Udonor
Doomheim
#328 - 2014-03-05 06:37:00 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Quote:
I am just working on removing the scatter containers and re balancing the loot tables. As I said in my previous post I do not control feature priority :) I just have some time between tasks (a few days) and I am using it for some quality of life improvements for the exploration sites.


Its never ending job without changing exploration as whole. Level of explorers will increse after you remove scatter containers so loot will be worthless again. Wish you good luck, you'll need it.


Small gangs are the heart of EVE gaming. Only pirates should be able to be really successful playing EVE solo beyond the newest noob activities. And even pirates need a few buddies to take down large groups of noobs and miners without survivors.

So any mechanic that ensures serious ISK making requires a team to exploit is vital. In fact I favor occasionally including better rare loot in exploration scatter cans (BPCs ? or new component for T3 guns?) -- but take off all the loot type labels from cans so that solos or undersized teams cannot focus on collecting specific cans. Also I think the velocity of scatter cans needs to be higher and maybe more evasive so as to make gathering cans harder. Also consider making can gathering a job for special tractors mounted on special unarmed frigates (similar to Noctis).

Basically pirates need more high value unarmed target fleets to shoot. Something with small loot volume so small pirate gangs can get rich quick like in real life. IF you are too scared to pump the drug trade give us looted artifact trade to prey upon!!! Too much competition in current trade piracy.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#329 - 2014-03-05 16:08:09 UTC
Quote:
Small gangs are the heart of EVE gaming.


So try exploration in small gang. Sometimes its one sig per 15 jumps in low. Very lucrative for small gang i assume. Some professions are best solo.

Quote:
Also I think the velocity of scatter cans needs to be higher and maybe more evasive so as to make gathering cans harder.


They removing it remember?

Quote:
Basically pirates need more high value unarmed target fleets to shoot.


Why? Covops are too hard to kill?

Quote:
1. I love the introduction of cargo scanners into the exploration profession
2. I liked the aspect of having to be picky about which loot you go for


Depends how will loot tables looks like. I would prefer not to know what is inside can, and from pvp potential its better to have explorer longer on site.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2014-03-05 16:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

Quote:
1. I love the introduction of cargo scanners into the exploration profession
2. I liked the aspect of having to be picky about which loot you go for


Depends how will loot tables looks like. I would prefer not to know what is inside can, and from pvp potential its better to have explorer longer on site.


Potentially rather than cut the loot it could stay the same but you unlock random pieces with each pass at hacking. The cargo scanner shows you everything in the can so you know what you have unlocked and what's left giving the player the dilemma of eithe cutting and running with what they have or staying longer to try to get the juicy BPC...

Either that or the loot is placed behind the grid nodes like the hacking bonus tools and firewall.system core nodes. Unlocking the core clears all nodes so you can pick and choose the loot, or you cut and run when you are happy with what you have from roaming the grid.

Either way the cargo scanner still has a use and potentially a player stays longer hacking because they are chasing the BPC in the hacking grid that they know is there somewhere...and cracking the system core is still the best option as it speeds up loot gathering.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#331 - 2014-03-05 17:34:24 UTC
Quote:

Potentially rather than cut the loot it could stay the same but you unlock random pieces with each pass at hacking.


So 7 items in can and i have to hack it 7 times? I don't like hacking that much.

Quote:
Either that or the loot is placed behind the grid nodes like the hacking bonus tools and firewall.system core nodes. Unlocking the core clears all nodes so you can pick and choose the loot, or you cut and run when you are happy with what you have from roaming the grid.


Pac-man in space? I propose more than one system core with different loot behind it. You can only choose one, rest will be gone.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
The Nightfish
Doomheim
#332 - 2014-03-05 21:45:11 UTC
So with "Loot Spew" eliminated, there will be little cause to fit a Cargo Scanner then, correct?

Unless one wants to skip entire containers, it's be more efficient to simply hack them all, and dump any loot one doesn't want to keep/haul.

And for those of us who were good at it, scans the cans first, and were successful at loot spew catching all the good loot, this will be a pretty clear cut nerf to income, as surely the amount of loot will be cut back overall with loot spew removed.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#333 - 2014-03-06 01:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Quote:

Potentially rather than cut the loot it could stay the same but you unlock random pieces with each pass at hacking.


So 7 items in can and i have to hack it 7 times? I don't like hacking that much.



I was thnking more like hacking twice, first pass unlocks the standard stuff, second pass unlocks BPC's and the like
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#334 - 2014-03-06 06:48:37 UTC
Alistair Cononach wrote:
Something everyone seems to be missing:

If you weren't a mouth breathing retread, loot spew was perhaps annoying, but irrelevant. Good players who knew what they were doing got 100% of the "good stuff" every time.

Now, with loot spew going away, CCP is surely to nerf overall loot.

So, good players will make much less from exploration, so that bads and mouth breathers can make the same as us.

Wake up kids, this is a NERF to exploration income, pure and simple.


Well, there's always the option of having various loot tied to certain nodes, so in order to get the best value out of the hacking game you have to uncover the nodes with the valuable items. Then when you beat the system core, the can unlocks and your items are intact. If you don't unlock the items, they don't survive and are replaced with metal scraps in the can.

Then CCP could introduce "scanner" utilities, which will highlight nodes of particular value. So now the game actually gets interesting: race through as quickly as possible to pick up the valuable nodes, hit the button scoop the loot and get out, all before someone else arrives to blow you up.

And there should also be a time limit, based on the cycle duration of your hacker. Then add hackers with longer cycle times as NPC BPC drops, LP store items, etc, and add scripts to the hacking module to extend the duration, vs boost the coherence/virus strength.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#335 - 2014-03-06 06:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Quote:
Either that or the loot is placed behind the grid nodes like the hacking bonus tools and firewall.system core nodes. Unlocking the core clears all nodes so you can pick and choose the loot, or you cut and run when you are happy with what you have from roaming the grid.


Unlocking the core to open up all the nodes reduces the risk of losing a particularly valuable item. Say you survey the can and you see that it contains a Dread Guristas Control Tower BPC, a decryptor and a bunch of hydrogen batteries. Here's one option:


  1. Race to clear the system core
  2. Look for the BPC and click it
  3. Done


here's another option


  1. Race to clear first node. It's a hydrogen battery
  2. Race to clear second node. It's a decryptor
  3. Race to clear third node. Score! It's the tower BPC!
  4. Ignore the fourth node, you know it's only going to be a hydrogen battery
  5. Race to clear the system core
  6. Open the can, scoop the BPC (and maybe the decryptor if it's valuable)
  7. Done


Then add a countdown timer. Now we have a game that is fun, with no need to adjust loot tables!

PS: the time limit also means that you can't lock out an intruder by simply refusing to finish the game.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#336 - 2014-03-06 10:30:56 UTC
no more loot spew?

*wipes tears of joy*

thank you!!!
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#337 - 2014-03-06 20:15:52 UTC
Thank God they are removing this stupid mechanic. I used to do exploration until this change, but after the expansion, I did two sites, and haven't done it since.
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#338 - 2014-03-07 16:32:02 UTC
Does this mean the implant so containers last in space longer will be changed? Or removed entirely? It didnt cost much, but it still has me wondering. What do?

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
Uskaanax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#339 - 2014-03-15 03:08:57 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.

As a WH dweller, I think this is great news. The loot spew is just like someone said before: you've done the minigame, why is there a second that includes a penalty? My corpmate and I often run these and it's not easy to coordinate which container we'll get and not, and often we go for the same data container. That means we're both tractoring in the same object while neither of us can break away and go after a different one to let the other grab it.

The minigame-hacking is a click fest. There's barely any skill involved, and the strategy is laughable. It's chutes and ladders in space. How about you just make it an nmap emulator? Oh, right - 30,000 years in the future and the dscan button isn't automatic yet, so why should hacking be more than chutes and ladders?

I'm looking forward to the removal. The old method was fine enough.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#340 - 2014-03-15 08:28:47 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of.



not trolling :)


So is hacking and the loot spill both going, I thought that hacking was here to stay but not the loot spill mechanic?

Can you clarify please, many thanks.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...