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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1321 - 2013-10-08 11:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?


My wanting the +10 virus strength has nothing to do with expecting to be able to complete high end sites without T2 equipment. My wanting the +10 virus strength is because I want to explore in these “exploration themed” ships.

When I saw the stream announcing these ships I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships for me to explore in!”

Then when I read the specs announced in this post I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships that I'm totally not going to explore in.”

Because why would I pay more to explore in a ship that is less potent at analysis and hacking?

Just so I can solo some lowsec combat sites? What a frightful waste and a terrible disappointment.

Exploration encompasses more than just data and relic sites, combat sites are included in the "Exploration" category as well. If your main co seen is just relic and data sites there are much more specialized ships for you.



Sarcasm on

* Join the covert ops preservation society, vote to make all other ships incapable of this role *
If your income depends on exploration, do not allow new people in, post now to kill exploration ships, we do not need more!

Sarcasm off

You may very well believe this is or is not accurate, I couldn't possibly comment

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1322 - 2013-10-08 11:52:08 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Fourthly, +5 virus bonus is enough for lowsec, and as some people showed, allow for nullsec site gathering too....

I don't want to be just “allowed” to hack and analyze in nullsec. I want to explore the nullsec frontier in earnest.

Many players by this point have started to realize these ships are aimed at low sec.[/quote]
Sorrry your copy and pasting is a bit confusing,which one of your identities is proposing these ships are for losec only?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1323 - 2013-10-08 11:53:42 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Asteros and Stratios are beautiful. CCP Please Make these ships Truly function as Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

In fact, you sgnature says it all : you think the ships are beautiful, so you want to use them, so you ask CCP to adapt them for your playstyle...

You are a child asking for christmas gift and not happy about it.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1324 - 2013-10-08 11:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Asteros and Stratios are beautiful. CCP Please Make these ships Truly function as Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

In fact, you sgnature says it all : you think the ships are beautiful, so you want to use them, so you ask CCP to adapt them for your playstyle...

You are a child asking for christmas gift and not happy about it.


@ Omnathious Deninard/Bouh Revetoile]

Very good, 2 out of three.You at last seem to be getting the idea.


I look forward to the reasoned and intelligent decision of the CCP developers in time for Christmas.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Sir Mattsimus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1325 - 2013-10-08 12:44:04 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

The Stratios will be a steping stone between covops and T3, king of lowsec...


You want the new faction ship to be a stepping stone?
I don't.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

I don't remember exploration to be a guaranted payout activity...


It's not. When I explore in null I typically use a covert ops frigate with memetic algorithm bank and scope emission sharpener and a can blew up on me recently. It doesn't happen all the time with that fitting, but it does happen. Hence I want +10 virus strength.

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Exploration encompasses more than just data and relic sites, combat sites are included in the "Exploration" category as well.


And I'm not asking for an ore bay or gas harvester bonuses for the gas I find as well. I just want +10 virus strength.

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Many players by this point have started to realize these ships are aimed at low sec.


Who are you to presume what the many realize? So far as I'm aware there is no statement from CCP Rise indicating that these ships are “aimed at low sec”. Which is why I'd like an update on this thread (please).

Because it's clear to me that you, Omnathious, have your idea of what you think this ship should be based upon the specs given and I have my notions on what a Sisters of Eve exploration ship should be.

The idea that Sisters of Eve ships be relegated to a “stepping stone” is a travesty.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#1326 - 2013-10-08 12:52:57 UTC
Who gives a crap if someone might be posting stuff from multiple different accounts. As if one person pretending to be 2 people is really going to swing CCPs thoughts on how they should balance the ships.
CCP will balance it based on sensible thought out feedback that is put into constructive comments. End of.

As to the ships, I've not looked at the frigate closely, but I'm looking forward to the cruiser a lot. Got a few fun ideas for that. Plus they look awesome! :D
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1327 - 2013-10-08 13:00:47 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:


The idea that Sisters of Eve ships be relegated to a “stepping stone” is a travesty.

They have there own role as an all in one exploration ship capable of doing both combat sites and relic and data sites. A T3 can get close but lacks the mid slots to keep the analyzers fit.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1328 - 2013-10-08 13:02:41 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
The idea that Sisters of Eve ships be relegated to a “stepping stone” is a travesty.

Read what I wrote about T3.

And to sum up, you want a combat cruiser to replace your covops in a non combat activity ? In fact, you have exactly the same problem than epicurus ataraxia .

Sorry, but this ship is not designed as a pure data/relic site exploration ship. It has combat capabilities too which should hint you about its intended purpose.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1329 - 2013-10-08 13:11:28 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

We are not asking for a win button, we are asking for these ships to be capable of being reasonably used, and can be improved if you wish to do this role efficiently.


You are missing it completely.

Stratios in particular would be able to do the gas professions sites as well as gas sites. Something you don't dare with a cov-ops, or don't bother because it has not the hold.

It can scan adequately, and remianing potent in combat. You are still being given a gift without the drawbacks and expense of a T3. i.e. the inability to refit in hostile territory,

Stratios won't need it.
Sir Mattsimus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1330 - 2013-10-08 13:14:58 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
Who gives a crap if someone might be posting stuff from multiple different accounts. As if one person pretending to be 2 people is really going to swing CCPs thoughts on how they should balance the ships.
CCP will balance it based on sensible thought out feedback that is put into constructive comments.


I must agree.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Sorry, but this ship is not designed as a pure data/relic site exploration ship. It has combat capabilities too which should hint you about its intended purpose.


Then why do they even have the +5 virus strength bonus?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1331 - 2013-10-08 13:16:21 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Sorry, but this ship is not designed as a pure data/relic site exploration ship. It has combat capabilities too which should hint you about its intended purpose.


Then why do they even have the +5 virus strength bonus?

So the can do a wide verity of sites and not just combat or data/relic sites.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
RTSAvalanche
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#1332 - 2013-10-08 13:18:01 UTC
looks good,

Will they cost around the same as other pirate ships? more/less?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1333 - 2013-10-08 13:24:12 UTC
RTSAvalanche wrote:
looks good,

Will they cost around the same as other pirate ships? more/less?


No clue. Depends on how the Sisters LP stabilizes.

Personally, I hope that highsec Sisters LP isn't allowed to buy these, and that they introduce a Sisters Expedition faction in lowsec you have to do missions for to get it. That way the price of Sisters probes plummets because people have been farming the LP in Osmon like crazy since these were announced.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1334 - 2013-10-08 13:24:47 UTC
RTSAvalanche wrote:
looks good,

Will they cost around the same as other pirate ships? more/less?



One would assume, if they follow the prices of the other pirate ships on the LP market they will be close. Other thing being that they are going to be relatively easy to get, so expect the price to crater pretty much a day after the patch hits.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1335 - 2013-10-08 13:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Mr Floydy wrote:
Who gives a crap if someone might be posting stuff from multiple different accounts. As if one person pretending to be 2 people is really going to swing CCPs thoughts on how they should balance the ships.
CCP will balance it based on sensible thought out feedback that is put into constructive comments.


I must agree.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Sorry, but this ship is not designed as a pure data/relic site exploration ship. It has combat capabilities too which should hint you about its intended purpose.


Then why do they even have the +5 virus strength bonus?


I also agree, I trust CCP to act intelligently,but it is very very tiring responding to the flood of attacks on a reasoned position when you are having to respond to multiple spammed identities, each coming at you from a different direction, it's like fending off a pack of snapping dogs

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1336 - 2013-10-08 13:33:52 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Then why do they even have the +5 virus strength bonus?

I said it plenty of times already : so that you can do the data/relic sites of lowsec ; lowsec where are the combat sites the Stratios will be able to go too.

How should I write it ? This ship is optimized for LOWSEC exploration. It won't do everything in nullsec. It might do the first combat sites there, and the +5 virus bonus will allow it to do the entry level nullsec data/relic sites, but that's all.

You want to end exploration ? SPECIALIZE or use an OP T3 ship.
Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1337 - 2013-10-08 13:34:30 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Sir Mattsimus wrote:


The idea that Sisters of Eve ships be relegated to a “stepping stone” is a travesty.

They have there own role as an all in one exploration ship capable of doing both combat sites and relic and data sites. A T3 can get close but lacks the mid slots to keep the analyzers fit.


People will not use Stratios as all in one exploration, simply because you will need mid slots for omnis and probably sebo, because ship lacks drone tracking and range bonuses. It will not use high slots for guns because it will need to fit drone link augmentors. I don`t see people using any of these 2 for only relic and data sites, because covops have better virus strength, is cheaper and prof sites don`t have any npcs in them, rendering any combat abilities useless for prof sites, even if you say that combat abilities are needed to fend off other players, then no one will uncloak on top of you unless they are sure that they have upper hand or have friends waiting to login,undock or jump in to system. In current state these ships are just expensive killmails if used for PVE side of exploration, because there are other better options for every single thing these specialised exploration ships are suposed to do.

On the other hand Stratios seems to be good for PVP side of exploration, removing turret hardpoints will stop people screaming about cloaky 1111!!! DPS, but then CCP could give it neut, nos bonus rename it to Father Pilgrim and be done with it.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1338 - 2013-10-08 13:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Then why do they even have the +5 virus strength bonus?

I said it plenty of times already : so that you can do the data/relic sites of lowsec ; lowsec where are the combat sites the Stratios will be able to go too.

How should I write it ? This ship is optimized for LOWSEC exploration. It won't do everything in nullsec. It might do the first combat sites there, and the +5 virus bonus will allow it to do the entry level nullsec data/relic sites, but that's all.

You want to end exploration ? SPECIALIZE or use an OP T3 ship.


Thank you for advising us of CCP's official position CCP Bouh.
Oh no wait....

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Sir Mattsimus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1339 - 2013-10-08 13:42:20 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

So the can do a wide verity of sites and not just combat or data/relic sites.

CCP Rise wrote:

...these ships will be great for a lot of different things meaning people will be trying to tug them in a few different directions...


I'm for tugging these ships in the direction of being good for nullsec hacking and analysis.
I had imagined probing the hostile expanse of nullsec with my SOE probes and SOE launcher bolted to an SOE Ship.
But if the specs remain as they are that will never happen.
And it seems such a terrible waste.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1340 - 2013-10-08 13:44:11 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Thank you for advising us of CCP's official position CCP Bouh.
Oh no wait....

Or you could use your brain, read the balancing chart and make some conclusions about where the balancing is going.

It's a balancing thread, not a christmas wishlist.

Now CCP will do whatever they want, and we both have stated our opinions about it with as many arguments as we could so we will be able to make their choice, or just ignore us completely. Whatever, we are here to discuss and that's what I do. :-)