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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#2061 - 2013-10-24 23:38:14 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
and ofc droneships are -1 slots
I'd still like a satisfactory answer as to why drone ships are -1 slot count. If its because of the tired argument that drones offer utility, then the obvious argument there is that ships that have primary weapon systems other than drones are afforded a tremendous amount more utility with their drones, because they don't have to sacrifice any damage potential in order to use utility drones. Yet, drone ships that use drones as their primary weapon system have to say "ok, I'm going to not do any damage and use EC drones instead." Why is it that a Drake, for example, can use all 6 launchers AND a flight of EC drones AND get +1 slot count over a similarly-classed drone ship?



I would love to know the answer to this too.

CCP should probably relook at all the droneboats and drones themselves. And I'm not sure what happened there mynnna, but expressing to burn down all t3's in a thread that has 0 to do with them....

It's just really not the place for it.


So much so, the sisters of eve ships should really not exist. There is no need for a combat capable cloak vessel, regardless of whether it's an "exploration" ship.

We have bombers, recons, t3, black ops, all of these are serving a specific duty.

Creating a general "to the public", ship would not only unbalance others, but would cause more chaos regarding the want for cloaking vessels that can dps.

Right now the only vessel that anybody really considers a danger is the proteus, and even if they tank it the things as agile as a bowling ball in a mud-pit. Creating more cloak capable ships is not the direction for balance in this game. Its hard enough to hunt around for people, but giving people the capability to explore the entire game in a combat vessel....

People scream about afk cloaking, cloaked t3's, crazy dps and huge cruiser tanks...

And CCP releases another one?

The frigate is fine.

The cruiser is not. I don't like where the chat is going, nor the ship direction and I like droneboats

Don't attack the community.

Yaay!!!!
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2062 - 2013-10-24 23:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
[:lol:
Quote:
i would say

missile local shield repping pirate ships

role bonus:
37.5% bonus to shield rep

caldari bonus:
5% to missile rate of fire per level

minmatar bonus:
5% bonus to explosion velocity per level


I like it! But I think a 7.5% shield boost bonus be better for Min and a 50% missile velocity to role. MeBiatch what do you think of them being Thukker ships? And WHY aren't there any true pirate missile ships???? You can say the Worm, Gila and RS are, but really those are all drone boats. I want a missile missile pirate boat! The Cald/Min better have missiles. I'd love to see new hull design for them. This is what I'd like to see for bonuses

Thukker role bonuses:
50% missile velocity

Caldari Bonus:
5% missiles rate of fire per level

Minmatar Bonus:
7.5% shield boost per level

With complete new Thukker hulls, and fast like a Navy Stabbber is.Lol


AFAIK thukker are a tech II company for the minmatar.

if we are going to upgrade a minor npc to full pirate faction then i would go for:

mordu's legion

the lore would be something along the lines that the angel cartel approached the mordu to become the cartel enforcement in the caldari regions (much like was done with serpentis) and deal with the growing threat of the guritas pirates as they are harassing the cartels assets. The caldari navy would be a silent broker as it suits thier interest to have a direct competitor to the hated guritas.

i would still go for an internal repair bonus as i picture these things be brawlers. and internal shield bonus adds to that think asb. its like a phoon and a mael had a baby.

not saying the velocity bonus is bad. i am just saying from what i would like to see it does not mesh with the design.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Gummy Worm
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2063 - 2013-10-24 23:58:35 UTC
Nar Tha wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I know there was some voices (yours especially Omnathious) who preferred the 5 virus strength version, but we talked about it quite a bit and the intended trade off with cov ops wasn't really needed because cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships, so that means we can boost the SOE ships' roles as explorers without causing problems.

I should also add that the overwhelming majority of people really wanted to see it go to 10 strength.

I think the concept is good. So T1 Scan Frigates will basically evolve into two different branches, one being Covert Ops Frigates which focus more on scanning itself, and the other one being SoE Faction Ships which focus more on exploration (as in the general PvE/Hacking content).

Maybe you should consider even removing the virus bonus from Covert Ops Frigates completely and replace it with something like Scan Deviation or Time or both - to make the difference between both roles even more distinct.


I like this idea. It makes the divide between the two classes less about subjective use and more about actual stat buffs.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2064 - 2013-10-25 00:01:57 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

If we get to the point that it's better to be in an Ishtar for completion times...

If all you care about is completion times, then covops ships should be your last choice. If that stops being the case, then there's a clear balance problem.

Completion times are and should be a concern. And if you practiced less selective quoting you'd see why. You would also show that it's not the only concern. I'll admit though, I misstated. My meaning wasn't that the ishtar should be slower in clearing, it should be faster, but if it's too much faster than the stratos fails in it's purpose as serious explorers will continue using ishtars since their advantages will outweigh the gains of the stratos. Debate will of course ensue passionately as to where that point is, as it already has, but acting like completion time is meaningless isn't doing this any favors.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2065 - 2013-10-25 00:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
The Thukkers are indeed a T2 manufacturer via Thukker Mix.

Mordu's Legion is primarily composed of Intaki Gallente who are mostly employed by the Caldari (although they'll work for anyone) and fly Caldari ships. Even if it means more work for CCP I would still favor seeing EoM raised to "full pirate faction" status. They make a sensible choice for a Caldari-Minmatar hybrid pirate faction with their active shielding (minmatar side) and their use of railguns (caldari side). The hulls don't have to make sense, they're too sexy for that.
Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
#2066 - 2013-10-25 00:16:44 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
After looking at the DED 6/10 a bit closer, I am beginning to wonder if this ship was ever actually able to do a 6/10 without being deadspace fit to hell and back.

In a shield nano PVP fit, sure. Oh the irony. Lol
Gummy Worm
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2067 - 2013-10-25 00:42:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Gummy Worm
I would suggest to Rise, that you don't shut the door on any further consideration of what people have to say. You guys have talked about it a lot behind your doors, along with 100s of other topics, here it's undiluted and fresh. A lot of great alternatives being thrown around to maintain the balance you're wanting to achieve and also give the majority of people who are really excited about the ship something to look forward to.

People want full fleet of drones/sentries?

  • Take away a high slot or a turret slot.
  • Decrease the drone capacity so they have to be much more conservative with launching them. 325 is fleets of every size, much less than current 400.
  • Increase the scan resolution so that it's significantly higher than the Ishtar (294)

    • You want to launch a ship that gets people moist, this is obviously that ship. When was the last time collectively the entire community was on its head for a ship? And in one fell swoop that excitement was sobered with the 100mb bandwidth. I think it'd be worth it to revisit balancing the ship once more with bringing 125 back and then maybe chopping a different leg since the response to this was pretty clear.

    If I'm whispering in your PR guy's ear I'm telling him to encourage you all to rouse as much excitement as you can going INTO the update, and then nerfing afterwards once people have come back, newbies have picked up trials and GTC's have been purchased, if it's needed.

    Ship started as super OP, now it's super meh, come back to the middle.
    Hungry Eyes
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #2068 - 2013-10-25 00:56:25 UTC
    i still dont see why id be using the frig for anything whatsoever, over my helios which can do all the professions with one setup.
    Thaddeus Eggeras
    Urkrathos Corp
    #2069 - 2013-10-25 00:57:15 UTC
    Quote:
    AFAIK thukker are a tech II company for the minmatar.

    if we are going to upgrade a minor npc to full pirate faction then i would go for:

    mordu's legion

    the lore would be something along the lines that the angel cartel approached the mordu to become the cartel enforcement in the caldari regions (much like was done with serpentis) and deal with the growing threat of the guritas pirates as they are harassing the cartels assets. The caldari navy would be a silent broker as it suits thier interest to have a direct competitor to the hated guritas.

    i would still go for an internal repair bonus as i picture these things be brawlers. and internal shield bonus adds to that think asb. its like a phoon and a mael had a baby.

    not saying the velocity bonus is bad. i am just saying from what i would like to see it does not mesh with the design.


    The Thukkers are still not part of the Minmatar, read below.

    One of the seven tribes of the Minmatar, the Thukker declined to join the Republic in the wake of the Minmatar Rebellion, instead opting to retreat to the Great Wildlands and pursue a nomadic lifestyle there. While they still have ties to the Republic, these actions strained their relationship with the other Tribes, and some still do not trust them.

    So even if they help with some designs for the Republic they probably would still have their know type of ships and such in The Great Wilderness. I stand by Thukker, The Mordu usually fly Caldari ships, so if it was them, no new ship designsCry

    I honestly think with either the bonuses you say or the ones I say would work, I just wanna see them haha.


    Quote:



    The Thukkers are indeeed a T2 manufacturer via Thukker Mix.

    Mordu's Legion is primarily composed of Intaki Gallente who are mostly employed by the Caldari (although they'll work for anyone) and fly Caldari ships. Even if it means more work for CCP I would still favor seeing EoM raised to "full pirate faction" status. They make a sensible choice for a Caldari-Minmatar hybrid pirate faction with their active shielding (minmatar side) and their use of railguns (caldari side). The hulls don't have to make sense, they're too sexy for that.


    I agree I would LOVE to see EoM, but as their ships are Amarr ships that are blue/grey but use hybrids it seems those would either be Amarr/Gal or Amarr/Cald, not Caldari/Min. I would love to see those sometime though, I always thought they looked amazing, and if you did them Amarr/Cald they could be Amarrian looking ships with Hybrids and shields, ohhhh myyyyy!LolShocked
    sarkenna
    RIVVEN Inc
    #2070 - 2013-10-25 01:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: sarkenna
    Keep the 125mb drone bandwith and get rid of turrets or even a high slot for the matter.

    To be honest the energy turrets are totally useless to the explorer and only interesting for pvp gank fits. As this seems to be your concern, just take the turrets away.

    Why are they useless to the explorer ? Different reasons:

    As told already we need sustained, thus active tanks for our operations...buffer pvp fits that had been spinned around don''t really help. In those scenarios is no place for cap hungry guns anyway. So i am gladly giving them up. You can have them all and cut a highslot if you give me my drones back and give me another low slot.

    To be honest this ship right now is nearly useless to the explorer crowd, as exactly those scenarios where you want those ships to be of use (deep in unknown or enemy territory) it now fails the sites you encounter there.
    So this can by no means be the intention.
    MeBiatch
    GRR GOONS
    #2071 - 2013-10-25 01:55:36 UTC
    Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
    Quote:
    AFAIK thukker are a tech II company for the minmatar.

    if we are going to upgrade a minor npc to full pirate faction then i would go for:

    mordu's legion

    the lore would be something along the lines that the angel cartel approached the mordu to become the cartel enforcement in the caldari regions (much like was done with serpentis) and deal with the growing threat of the guritas pirates as they are harassing the cartels assets. The caldari navy would be a silent broker as it suits thier interest to have a direct competitor to the hated guritas.

    i would still go for an internal repair bonus as i picture these things be brawlers. and internal shield bonus adds to that think asb. its like a phoon and a mael had a baby.

    not saying the velocity bonus is bad. i am just saying from what i would like to see it does not mesh with the design.


    The Thukkers are still not part of the Minmatar, read below.

    One of the seven tribes of the Minmatar, the Thukker declined to join the Republic in the wake of the Minmatar Rebellion, instead opting to retreat to the Great Wildlands and pursue a nomadic lifestyle there. While they still have ties to the Republic, these actions strained their relationship with the other Tribes, and some still do not trust them.

    So even if they help with some designs for the Republic they probably would still have their know type of ships and such in The Great Wilderness. I stand by Thukker, The Mordu usually fly Caldari ships, so if it was them, no new ship designsCry

    I honestly think with either the bonuses you say or the ones I say would work, I just wanna see them haha.


    that was true but we have updates

    CCP Falcon wrote:


    The Thukker, for the best part, were all living out in the Great Wildlands aboard huge space faring trade caravans. After the Elder Fleet invasion of the Amarr Empire in YC110, quite a few of them returned to the Republic, and now they have full representation on the Tribal Council.


    so perhaps but it seems that ccp falcon has ruled out thukker not being full members of the republic now.

    so really that just leaves mordu... or we would have to invent some new entitiy all together.

    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
    Zhilia Mann
    Tide Way Out Productions
    #2072 - 2013-10-25 03:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
    PotatoOverdose wrote:
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:

    Never said anything about wanting to blitz 6/10s not once.

    Well then, since speed doesn't matter and you're cool with taking 4 minutes to kill the overseer, it seems we've both agreed that it can do 6/10s. Excellent.



    Why do I get the sense that very few people in this thread have run a single 6/10, let alone a variety from different pirate factions?

    Look, they're all actually quite different. This isn't 7/10s we're talking about, where if you've run one you've more or less run them all. And we're not talking about the old "grind down the overseer's structure" from 7/10s either.

    There's a hierarchy to 6s for sure. In terms of difficulty, Guristas < Blood = Angels < Sansha < < < Serpentis. Before the bandwidth reduction a Stratios could break the Sansha overseer's tank with some choice overheating of guns. It wouldn't have a shot at the Serpentis 6. After the bandwidth reduction it's going to struggle in a Blood 6 but be able to finish with max skills. It won't have a shot at a Sansha 6 at all.

    By the by, I'm kind of ok with this. Being able to warp cloaked and have the ability to run 5s with some careful piloting and low sec 4s -- which are kind of unused content right now -- is a niche. And if you're in Guristas space you might as well use one anyhow.

    But there is a conflict here with the stated purpose. The Stratios cannot do 40% of the 6s out there and will struggle with another 40%. If the goal was to allow them to run those sites (solo) then the bandwidth cut doesn't make sense.

    Edit: Eh. Re-ran the numbers. Max-skilled Curators will eventually break Skomener Effotber but it's a close thing.
    Alvatore DiMarco
    Capricious Endeavours Ltd
    #2073 - 2013-10-25 03:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
    Zhilia Mann wrote:
    If the goal was to allow them to run those sites (solo) then the bandwidth cut doesn't make sense.

    Unfortunately, this is a case of the intended purpose for the ship having to take a back seat to the unintended uses (and abuses) that will come up.
    Davos Jovakko
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #2074 - 2013-10-25 03:53:12 UTC
    Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
    Zhilia Mann wrote:
    If the goal was to allow them to run those sites (solo) then the bandwidth cut doesn't make sense.

    Unfortunately, this is a case of the intended purpose for the ship having to take a back seat to the unintended uses (and abuses) that will come up.


    But... now its mediocre at both the intended and unintended...?

    Pretty much it will now be the new King of High-Sec Exploration, taking the place of the T3s in blitzing down 4/10s.

    I guess a lot of people were calling for that?
    Zhilia Mann
    Tide Way Out Productions
    #2075 - 2013-10-25 03:57:36 UTC
    Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
    Zhilia Mann wrote:
    If the goal was to allow them to run those sites (solo) then the bandwidth cut doesn't make sense.

    Unfortunately, this is a case of the intended purpose for the ship having to take a back seat to the unintended uses (and abuses) that will come up.


    Like I said, the bandwidth reduction doesn't actually bother me. They'll retain a niche. It just won't be the one they set out to fill.
    Kel hound
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #2076 - 2013-10-25 05:23:28 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

    We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.

    The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

    This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

    Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

    Thanks



    These ships are not even seeded yet and you're already going to nerf them?


    Drone bay changes, fine, less room for a **** ton of drones, but the bandwidth change is over the top. Now instead of a full flight of heavies were limited to 4 or a mixed bag?
    Im not gonna call it dead on arrival, but it certainly has been strangled in the womb and my interest in this cruiser is definitely now dead. You could have at least seeded the ships on sisi before caving.
    Xolve
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #2077 - 2013-10-25 05:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
    My favorite part about this whole thread... with the new speed changes coming with this expansion- people are actually serious about using Ogres.

    The Gallente Drone Cocktail wasn't a problem for the 7 years it was used (if for some reason you have some aversion to sentries, outside of you bads that think a rank 5 skill is the end of the world). From the brief time I tinkered with this ship in EFT it's quite capable of 6/10's without ridiculous fits, and also quite a terror in blitzkrieg styled covops warfare (even if blops bridging them is completely impractical).

    Also- if you don't like it- don't fly it. The Phantasm has sucked for years, nobody is championing it's rebalance; people just don't buy them. Lol
    Sabriz Adoudel
    Move along there is nothing here
    #2078 - 2013-10-25 06:09:45 UTC
    Seems strong as an agile, less tanky alternative to the Sin.

    Why people are comparing it to the Ishtar is beyond me. Different ships, different roles.

    I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
    Xolve
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #2079 - 2013-10-25 06:18:26 UTC
    Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
    Seems strong as an agile, less tanky alternative to the Sin.

    Why people are comparing it to the Ishtar is beyond me. Different ships, different roles.


    Because people are asking for essentially an Ishtar (i.e. uncloaky drone bonused ship), this ship is very powerful in a number of situations- some people just don't realize it yet.
    Alyssa Haginen
    Doomheim
    #2080 - 2013-10-25 07:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Haginen
    Stratios..
    Needs 125m3 of bandwith...take it from the bay but please don't ruin a good thing by limiting it to only four large drones.

    125m3/375m3 bay is workable