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[Proposal] Free to Play : Pay to Train

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Locutus ofBorg
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
#1 - 2013-10-01 16:01:48 UTC
Hello all,

I have been playing eve for close to 8 years now and in my time I have grown to love and hate EVE at the same time. I love the free sandbox experience where you make the game your own and decide how you want to play. On the other side of that coin, I hate that I have to pay a monthly subscription for that experience.

The Problem: Many of the old guard are running out of things to train due to their character age. This is resulting in useless skills being trained so that we don't miss out on the SP, though the argument could be made that the very simple solution to this is train skills on your alt.

The Solution: Allow people to play EVE for free, but restrict the training of skills to paid "Premium" accounts which have all the benefits of the current subscriber account. These free accounts could be restricted in some ways, but that restriction would have to hold true to the EVE experience and not tie the hands of the player the way Trial accounts are restricted. Being able to trade, create contracts, and play the game how you choose should not be impacted by this free to play model, only the ability to train skills should be the defining factor here.

[Discuss!]
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#2 - 2013-10-01 16:04:37 UTC
No.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Locutus ofBorg
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
#3 - 2013-10-01 16:07:31 UTC
Lykouleon wrote:
No.


Any elaboration or counter argument there?
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2013-10-01 16:09:39 UTC
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Hello all,

I have been playing eve for close to 8 years now and in my time I have grown to love and hate EVE at the same time. I love the free sandbox experience where you make the game your own and decide how you want to play. On the other side of that coin, I hate that I have to pay a monthly subscription for that experience. ]


Well no one likes to pay for anything, but if you want to play you got to pay.

Locutus ofBorgThe Problem: Many of the old guard are running out of things to train due to their character age. This is resulting in useless skills being trained so that we don't miss out on the SP, though the argument could be made that the very simple solution to this is train skills on your alt. wrote:


Old Guard running out of things to train?! seriously? Dude I have 130mil sp and I finally got a round to to training light missiles to 5..... what..

Locutus ofBorgThe Solution: Allow people to play EVE for free, but restrict the training of skills to paid "Premium" accounts which have all the benefits of the current subscriber account. These free accounts could be restricted in some ways, but that restriction would have to hold true to the EVE experience and not tie the hands of the player the way Trial accounts are restricted. Being able to trade, create contracts, and play the game how you choose should not be impacted by this free to play model, only the ability to train skills should be the defining factor here.

[Discuss! wrote:


No, pay to win and WoT is something you seek...go play that if you wish.
Locutus ofBorg
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
#5 - 2013-10-01 16:16:24 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Hello all,

I have been playing eve for close to 8 years now and in my time I have grown to love and hate EVE at the same time. I love the free sandbox experience where you make the game your own and decide how you want to play. On the other side of that coin, I hate that I have to pay a monthly subscription for that experience. ]


Well no one likes to pay for anything, but if you want to play you got to pay.

Locutus ofBorgThe Problem: Many of the old guard are running out of things to train due to their character age. This is resulting in useless skills being trained so that we don't miss out on the SP, though the argument could be made that the very simple solution to this is train skills on your alt. wrote:


Old Guard running out of things to train?! seriously? Dude I have 130mil sp and I finally got a round to to training light missiles to 5..... what..

Locutus ofBorgThe Solution: Allow people to play EVE for free, but restrict the training of skills to paid "Premium" accounts which have all the benefits of the current subscriber account. These free accounts could be restricted in some ways, but that restriction would have to hold true to the EVE experience and not tie the hands of the player the way Trial accounts are restricted. Being able to trade, create contracts, and play the game how you choose should not be impacted by this free to play model, only the ability to train skills should be the defining factor here.

[Discuss! wrote:


No, pay to win and WoT is something you seek...go play that if you wish.


Part 1: Yes, I understand that if you want to play, then you have to pay. But consider for a second the increased player base from a free to play model. Then consider how many of those players who enjoy the game but would never have considered playing eve to begin with due to the restrictions on trial accounts bundled with the pay to play subscription model EVE currently uses. In the end I believe we would see an increase in player base.

Part 2: Specialized characters is what i'm referring to here. If you want to train industrial skills and make yourself a cap pilot while having sub cap skills maxed, then you will have plenty to train, but if I wanted to have a specialized bomber pilot then I wouldn't need all 130mil sp.

Part 3: This is in no way pay to win. At any point you can stop or start up a training subscription to further your skills in eve. Once you get to the point where you feel you don't have to train anymore you simply stop. There are no premium items, no special abilities no one else can have, simply an alternate system where you can choose to train and pay a subscription fee, or not train and play for free but be inhibited by a skill gap. If you're playing a specialized role in eve you won't be affected by the skill gap.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2013-10-01 16:19:58 UTC
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Lykouleon wrote:
No.


Any elaboration or counter argument there?
Eve already has it's own free to play system. Which means players can use in game money to play and CCP still get RL monies. Although not strictly free to play, all it will cost you is the time required to gain the ISK for trade.

Your idea would mean a loss of income and these systems tend to be put in place when a game is dying.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Locutus ofBorg
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
#7 - 2013-10-01 16:34:07 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Lykouleon wrote:
No.


Any elaboration or counter argument there?
Eve already has it's own free to play system. Which means players can use in game money to play and CCP still get RL monies. Although not strictly free to play, all it will cost you is the time required to gain the ISK for trade.

Your idea would mean a loss of income and these systems tend to be put in place when a game is dying.


True, games which have already been a pay to play subscription model do only go to a free to play model after interest has been lost in the game and yearly revenue is falling below operating costs. That is not to say that free to play games solve a companies financial problems, but if executed properly they can be profitable.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2013-10-01 16:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Baaldor
Locutus ofBorg wrote:


Part 1: Yes, I understand that if you want to play, then you have to pay. But consider for a second the increased player base from a free to play model. Then consider how many of those players who enjoy the game but would never have considered playing eve to begin with due to the restrictions on trial accounts bundled with the pay to play subscription model EVE currently uses. In the end I believe we would see an increase in player base..


Being for free to play would not bring in long lasting members. This is a niche game period. It always has been, it is not for everyone, thus there is not another game like it anywhere, and that alone is worth the pay to play. Plus it makes absolutely no business sense to cut your own throat.

Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Part 2: Specialized characters is what i'm referring to here. If you want to train industrial skills and make yourself a cap pilot while having sub cap skills maxed, then you will have plenty to train, but if I wanted to have a specialized bomber pilot then I wouldn't need all 130mil sp..


it is all about the journey man, I find my self doing all kinds of stuff and rounds out this character. All though I suffer from 5 or 6 years of Nul wec doctrines, i feel fortunate to have those skills even though it looks like I have the case of ADHD. My alts, I pay to play, train and focus. But if I do not pay...well then all my cyno-ho's and spies would not be online to do their job. So to that, the function of pay to play forces me to pay for my alts or not use them..kind of an equalizer.

Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Part 3: This is in no way pay to win. At any point you can stop or start up a training subscription to further your skills in eve. Once you get to the point where you feel you don't have to train anymore you simply stop. There are no premium items, no special abilities no one else can have, simply an alternate system where you can choose to train and pay a subscription fee, or not train and play for free but be inhibited by a skill gap. If you're playing a specialized role in eve you won't be affected by the skill gap.


However the ability to marshal an army of free to play alts does make a huge difference and flying around multi boxing jewing up your isk not right.

And as far as the skill, there are no skill gaps in Eve, just in the heads of the nerds that have not figured out Eve yet.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-10-01 17:34:25 UTC
Infinite cyno alts. Infinite PI alts. Infinite ice mining alts, rattng alts, courier mission alts, or anything else that doesn't involve much in the way of attention being paid...
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#10 - 2013-10-01 17:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lykouleon
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Lykouleon wrote:
No.


Any elaboration or counter argument there?

You provided the counter-argument yourself. If you feel SP will be "wasted," train an alt. However, considering that no percentage of training in this game can really be wasted, I fail to see the argument that you can ever waste SP.

I created this character in 2007 after biomassing a 2006 character. I still don't have every skill trained to perfection that I want to, nor did the 2006 character. I likely won't have all those skills trained for another 2-3 years. Considering it takes, last I checked, about 18 years to train every skill in this game to perfection (not including the addition of new skills from the recent patches and new skills CCP intends to roll out), I fail to see how anyone can "run out of things to train."

Thus, I feel your idea is simply a cry for "WAAAAAHHH I don't want to pay but i feel entitled to my space person, make my space person easily accessible while ruining your subscription model." Which, therefore, is a bad idea.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Omega Tron
Edge Dancers
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#11 - 2013-10-01 19:01:10 UTC
I understand your view of the skill training process and there are adjustments that might be worth considering. But for me there remains one reason that I am playing and paying for this game -- it remains the most challenging and difficult gaming on the market. As long as CCP continues at keeping the gaming at this level I'll will be here playing and paying. That's my 2 ISK's worth.

CCP's sand box is EVE Online.  The sand is owned by CCP.  We pay them a monthly fee to throw the sand at each other.  That is all that is here, so move along. Nothing more to be seen.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-10-01 21:44:36 UTC
I would like CCP to give me a pony.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#13 - 2013-10-01 22:06:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I would like CCP to give me a pony.


Confirming that friendship is indeed magic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-10-01 22:17:03 UTC
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Hello all,

I have been playing eve for close to 8 years now and in my time I have grown to love and hate EVE at the same time. I love the free sandbox experience where you make the game your own and decide how you want to play. On the other side of that coin, I hate that I have to pay a monthly subscription for that experience.

The Problem: Many of the old guard are running out of things to train due to their character age. This is resulting in useless skills being trained so that we don't miss out on the SP, though the argument could be made that the very simple solution to this is train skills on your alt.

The Solution: Allow people to play EVE for free, but restrict the training of skills to paid "Premium" accounts which have all the benefits of the current subscriber account. These free accounts could be restricted in some ways, but that restriction would have to hold true to the EVE experience and not tie the hands of the player the way Trial accounts are restricted. Being able to trade, create contracts, and play the game how you choose should not be impacted by this free to play model, only the ability to train skills should be the defining factor here.

[Discuss!]


No.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-10-02 12:43:11 UTC
NO!

But, I would pay a PLEX for Removal of Unwanted Skills

You DO NOT get reimbursed for skill points or price of skill books.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Sylphy
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
#16 - 2013-10-21 14:39:03 UTC
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Hello all,

I have been playing eve for close to 8 years now and in my time I have grown to love and hate EVE at the same time. I love the free sandbox experience where you make the game your own and decide how you want to play. On the other side of that coin, I hate that I have to pay a monthly subscription for that experience.

The Problem: Many of the old guard are running out of things to train due to their character age. This is resulting in useless skills being trained so that we don't miss out on the SP, though the argument could be made that the very simple solution to this is train skills on your alt.

The Solution: Allow people to play EVE for free, but restrict the training of skills to paid "Premium" accounts which have all the benefits of the current subscriber account. These free accounts could be restricted in some ways, but that restriction would have to hold true to the EVE experience and not tie the hands of the player the way Trial accounts are restricted. Being able to trade, create contracts, and play the game how you choose should not be impacted by this free to play model, only the ability to train skills should be the defining factor here.

[Discuss!]


The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. And since the "old guard" are the few in this case, how about no?

You want a complete change to the game because 5 people in EVE don't have anything to train anymore in their 265mil SP chars? Well, tough luck, start another character or something.

The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2013-10-21 16:17:33 UTC
Sylphy wrote:
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Hello all,

I have been playing eve for close to 8 years now and in my time I have grown to love and hate EVE at the same time. I love the free sandbox experience where you make the game your own and decide how you want to play. On the other side of that coin, I hate that I have to pay a monthly subscription for that experience.

The Problem: Many of the old guard are running out of things to train due to their character age. This is resulting in useless skills being trained so that we don't miss out on the SP, though the argument could be made that the very simple solution to this is train skills on your alt.

The Solution: Allow people to play EVE for free, but restrict the training of skills to paid "Premium" accounts which have all the benefits of the current subscriber account. These free accounts could be restricted in some ways, but that restriction would have to hold true to the EVE experience and not tie the hands of the player the way Trial accounts are restricted. Being able to trade, create contracts, and play the game how you choose should not be impacted by this free to play model, only the ability to train skills should be the defining factor here.

[Discuss!]


The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. And since the "old guard" are the few in this case, how about no?

You want a complete change to the game because 5 people in EVE don't have anything to train anymore in their 265mil SP chars? Well, tough luck, start another character or something.


Wait, what is considered an Old Guard anyway?

And I do believe there are more than just a few.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#18 - 2013-10-21 17:56:26 UTC
Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Lykouleon wrote:
No.


Any elaboration or counter argument there?


Yes, as you said, train those skills on your alt...

Thank me later :D
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#19 - 2013-10-22 08:51:59 UTC
NO

This would be terrible for Eve.

Can you imagine the amount of free accounts doing the following -

Mining
Blob warfare
Ganking
Trading
spamming scams
etc

There is so many things you can do in Eve with only a few months skillpoints. All of these things will be done with free accounts.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Sir Spottington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-10-23 22:37:11 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
NO!

But, I would pay a PLEX for Removal of Unwanted Skills

You DO NOT get reimbursed for skill points or price of skill books.


hell yes!

no more useless ones on my skill sheet, i never wanted mining etc yet ccp gave it to me for no reason.
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