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CSM Statement on the SOMER Promotion (with reply from CCP Pokethulu)

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Steijn
Quay Industries
#21 - 2013-09-28 13:51:05 UTC
Quote:
If you wish, it's fine to let the community know in your statement that CCP has informed you we are working on a clear 3rd party program for future events and that we will consult with you on this program as we develop it, but there's certainly no requirement for you to include this in your statement.


that basically says to me that CCP know what they are doing with regards SOMER is wrong, but havent the balls to stop what theyve started.

As far as im concerned, making sure it doesnt happen again is too late. If this current fiasco goes ahead, the damage has been done.
Lee Saisima
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-09-28 14:00:30 UTC
Quote:
We acknowledge that we rushed this event, and we are certainly learning from it now.

This is the statement that most trouble me.

Why? Why would CCP be so keen to rush through a proposal to push a gambling site further into the architecture of the game universe? Is this type of feature a new direction for the game? Why would a virtual slot-machine need such speedy attention from the development team?

As some previous posters have stated (and I find this, ultimately whether you agree on this issue or not, to be the crux of the argument), given the list of in-game issues that still need to be addressed, and the issues with client stability, why is CCP now given over to investing *any* of its' time implementing 3rd-party gambling support??

EVE is not a gambling platform, the core gameplay is in no way related to lotteries or gambling applications - everything is either earned or taken.

Why has this become such a huge issue in the first place? What the hell is CCP doing?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#23 - 2013-09-28 14:03:38 UTC
I read CCP's statement as "Thanks for your concern, but we're still doing it anyway, and we pinky swear we will consult you next time"

This is essentially exactly the same statement navigator made, and I hope people aren't falling for it.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2013-09-28 14:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
This is a lot of words for "we complained to CCP and they politely ignored us and continued doing exactly what they were going to do anyway"

"we have heard your concerns and we will change exactly nothing about this hundreds of billions of isk handout but maybe we'll do something different in the future. or not. *pats head*"

Edit: combined your two posts. ISD Ezwal.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2013-09-28 14:14:15 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
"we have heard your concerns and we will change exactly nothing about this hundreds of billions of isk handout but maybe we'll do something different in the future. or not. *pats head*"

"+we don't care"
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-09-28 14:16:10 UTC
Very disappointing CCP sees nothing wrong in principle with handing out game changing amounts of free stuff to their favored in-game entities. If Goons ever got that sort of free isk from the free isk fairy(not holding my breath on that one!) then the chaos we could sow would make Burn Jita look like a polite misunderstanding.
Carka Gerschen
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#27 - 2013-09-28 14:25:19 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
Very disappointing CCP sees nothing wrong in principle with handing out game changing amounts of free stuff to their favored in-game entities. If Goons ever got that sort of free isk from the free isk fairy(not holding my breath on that one!) then the chaos we could sow would make Burn Jita look like a polite misunderstanding.


It might be game changing for the people winning the prizes, but do you really believe that it is a game changing amount for the game as a whole? I seriously doubt that.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-09-28 14:25:49 UTC
So I guess CCP knows how to act like a normal corporation when they're telling people to **** off, but not when they're actually running their business. Okay, whatever, CCP.
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-09-28 14:34:41 UTC
Carka Gerschen wrote:
Doris Dents wrote:
Very disappointing CCP sees nothing wrong in principle with handing out game changing amounts of free stuff to their favored in-game entities. If Goons ever got that sort of free isk from the free isk fairy(not holding my breath on that one!) then the chaos we could sow would make Burn Jita look like a polite misunderstanding.


It might be game changing for the people winning the prizes, but do you really believe that it is a game changing amount for the game as a whole? I seriously doubt that.

It wouldn't change the face of the game forever obviously. But if, say, TEST had an injection of best part of a trillion during the Fountain war when they were asking for donations to pay pilot losses then it sure would've changed and extended that conflict. Maybe the could've paid off BL to start attacking us again, maybe they'd have held out for long enough for N3 + PL to get engaged again, maybe we'd be thinking about the defense of CFC space right now - who knows! That sort of isk can make a big difference even on the biggest coalition scales never mind to individual pilots.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-09-28 14:35:00 UTC
Carka Gerschen wrote:
I am just wondering about a few things though, since when is making ISK in an online videogame a commercial lottery. I might not understand the US legal system, but that might even be too farfetched for the US legal system.

And the second thing is, wasn't the reintroduction of unique ships the main issue here and the biggest problem, considering this wasn't something worthy for the CSM to look at when CCP gave Somer Blink some prizes at their last celebration.

And going for hypothetical legal systems, wouldn't changing the way the drawing is done be a breach of contract with the people who entered ISK into the Somer Blink site, with the promise of gaining a bigger chance of winning those items?

Regards,

Carka



You know how you go to a casino, and purchase chips with cash, those chips do not have any value outside of the casino?

Yeah. Isk can be bought with real cash. When you have a business (And somer blink is a business) that has business practices dealing with ingame and out of game money (GTC cards for instance)... it becomes a commercial lottery.

When your boss draws names from his employee pool to see who gets to stay late, that is not a commercial lottery.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2013-09-28 14:35:24 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
This is a lot of words for "we complained to CCP and they politely ignored us and continued doing exactly what they were going to do anyway"

Weaselior wrote:
"we have heard your concerns and we will change exactly nothing about this hundreds of billions of isk handout but maybe we'll do something different in the future. or not. *pats head*"

Weaselior a goon after my own blobber-structure shooter heart

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#32 - 2013-09-28 14:40:12 UTC
Rich Uncle PennyBags wrote:
Despite the obvious mistakes that CCP have made this time, I actually like that they are trying to be more involved with community sites.

It is a tricky issue, but I'm glad to see they recognized where they got it wrong.

Yes, which is why they are... giving away stuff anyway

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#33 - 2013-09-28 14:42:57 UTC
Third party developers and event organizers add additional features and content to the game that CCP does not have the resources or will to develop and maintain themselves. We'd be less well off without them.

Tossing them a few things here and there to help bring more people to their services is a good thing.

I'd like to see the people who make things like EHQ, Eve-Kill, EFT etc thrown a few gifts in the process.
Jove devil
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-09-28 14:51:29 UTC
i luv the way that ccp says they are looking into this with there legal team

Even though there legal team are ghosts. Even ive asked for there legal teams details and they have said you have to contact them directly. SO HOW!!

its CCPs way of pretending to deal with the matter in which is a breach as they are giving free bloody expensive ships to a 3rd party company that actually does have chars in eve. There is no secure way we can happily say the lotto was won fairly
Carka Gerschen
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#35 - 2013-09-28 14:58:44 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Carka Gerschen wrote:
I am just wondering about a few things though, since when is making ISK in an online videogame a commercial lottery. I might not understand the US legal system, but that might even be too farfetched for the US legal system.

And the second thing is, wasn't the reintroduction of unique ships the main issue here and the biggest problem, considering this wasn't something worthy for the CSM to look at when CCP gave Somer Blink some prizes at their last celebration.

And going for hypothetical legal systems, wouldn't changing the way the drawing is done be a breach of contract with the people who entered ISK into the Somer Blink site, with the promise of gaining a bigger chance of winning those items?

Regards,

Carka



You know how you go to a casino, and purchase chips with cash, those chips do not have any value outside of the casino?

Yeah. Isk can be bought with real cash. When you have a business (And somer blink is a business) that has business practices dealing with ingame and out of game money (GTC cards for instance)... it becomes a commercial lottery.

When your boss draws names from his employee pool to see who gets to stay late, that is not a commercial lottery.


That would be true if you would buy tokens for Somer blink with real life money, which you don't. You use ISK to buy ticket in the lottery. While it is true, that there is a way to get ISK for real life money by means of buying a PLEX, there is still the issue, that there is no way to exchange the ISK back to real life money.

Eventhough it is true, Somer blink makes real life money, by a comission they get from linking people to the MarkeeDragon site, that is not directly related to the ISK people put into the site. So your analogy is not entirely correct and I still would say it is not a commercial lottery. But to each their own opinion.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-09-28 15:02:53 UTC
I think the CSM has done an excellent job here. I envision the CSM as a volunteer body that can translate the communities' concerns into something reasonably coherent and representative, and then let CCP do with that what they wish. Transforming rolling pages of largely jabbering idiocy into something that is actually useable is about the best they can do.

I personally as an actual human being, as opposed to my usual forum troll persona, would like to thank other actual human beings for spending some of their actual human time to competently and effectively represent the communities' concerns to CCP, which is what I voted for them to do.

Thanks.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#37 - 2013-09-28 15:03:14 UTC
i think these lotteries are just ridiculous essentially getting free isk for very little effort defeats the point of eve being hard and people having to put time into isk making activities and its exploitable as hell by the sounds of it...

Pay to win always comes to mind ... especially the limited edition offer that gives you exclusive implants that can combine to make very powerful bonuses with the rest of the geno set.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Solhild
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-09-28 15:12:37 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
I think the CSM has done an excellent job here. I envision the CSM as a volunteer body that can translate the communities' concerns into something reasonably coherent and representative, and then let CCP do with that what they wish. Transforming rolling pages of largely jabbering idiocy into something that is actually useable is about the best they can do.

I personally as an actual human being, as opposed to my usual forum troll persona, would like to thank other actual human beings for spending some of their actual human time to competently and effectively represent the communities' concerns to CCP, which is what I voted for them to do.

Thanks.


This.
Rengerel en Distel
#39 - 2013-09-28 15:15:59 UTC
Split the prizes between Somer and a thread. That way those that play Somer have a chance, and those that don't have an equal chance.

Going forward, unless CCP is going to cover any losses if a 3rd party site decides to shut down and run with whatever ISK they have, they shouldn't endorse a 3rd party site. They have basically said with their posts that Somer isn't a scam, and can be trusted, which I find hard to believe they know that as fact. It also doesn't address the RMT portion of Somer. You pay RL $, you get blink credits. You win with those blink credits, you win ISK. RL $ = ISK for the players, and Somer makes referral $ from the sales. CCP is endorsing that form of RMT and giving a RL financial benefit to Somer.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Carka Gerschen
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#40 - 2013-09-28 15:17:43 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
Carka Gerschen wrote:
Doris Dents wrote:
Very disappointing CCP sees nothing wrong in principle with handing out game changing amounts of free stuff to their favored in-game entities. If Goons ever got that sort of free isk from the free isk fairy(not holding my breath on that one!) then the chaos we could sow would make Burn Jita look like a polite misunderstanding.


It might be game changing for the people winning the prizes, but do you really believe that it is a game changing amount for the game as a whole? I seriously doubt that.

It wouldn't change the face of the game forever obviously. But if, say, TEST had an injection of best part of a trillion during the Fountain war when they were asking for donations to pay pilot losses then it sure would've changed and extended that conflict. Maybe the could've paid off BL to start attacking us again, maybe they'd have held out for long enough for N3 + PL to get engaged again, maybe we'd be thinking about the defense of CFC space right now - who knows! That sort of isk can make a big difference even on the biggest coalition scales never mind to individual pilots.


You have a point there, in certain situations, it can change that. But I doubt a lack of money was the only thing happening there, since if a one time isk injection would really have changed everything, I am sure their alliance members could spare 50M each to save the situation.

regards,

Carka