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New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

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Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2011-10-31 15:11:46 UTC
"Hail (all sizes): Removed falloff penalty"

TwistedTwistedTwisted

Sorry, RF Fusion...
Femaref
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#62 - 2011-10-31 15:12:04 UTC
Charles Edisson wrote:
Much as I love these new changes (I have 2 Gallante toons) CCP need to do something about their insider trading. I love the fact that somehow from a new Dev blog today all the ammo types that have just had boosts anounced were bought up off the market 7 days ago. Players that are involved in the balancing/development ideas should not be able to make huge sums of isk out of inside trading.


It's called test server. Once the data is on the test server, you (read: people who know their way around certain tools) are able to read the new item data from the cache files. This has nothing to do with insider trading, as everybody has the same opportunity to get the information. Insider trading restricts the information to only a few, which clearly doesn't happen here. Mind, not being able to use a tool doesn't mean you are restricted from it, you are just not able to use it.
Akura Goldwing
Unknown Dimension
#63 - 2011-10-31 15:13:04 UTC
I find it interesting, that Caldari Ships don´t become an Velo-Buff because they have an 10% rangebonus already...
The Rokh was an "Fan-Boat" before the Hybrid-Buff and will be after.
That 10% Range Bonus of the Caldari is more unseless than an third Leg or some like it.
If someone needs an Sniper, he probably uses an Amarr or Minmatar Ship.

Just my 2 cents
xo3e
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2011-10-31 15:13:18 UTC  |  Edited by: xo3e
"ok. lets boost both close and long range Projectiles, and also Lasers and say that this is Hybrid wepons boost actually" (c) CCP

i dont want to be politically incorrect, but... WTF IS THIS? WHAT IS THE POINT IN BOOSTING TRACKING WHEN BLASTER BOATS STILL CANT GET CLOSE ENOUGH?

this "boost" looks like bad excuse, and blaster boats will still only be able to stand against n00bs in hands of a skilled pilots. and i dont think that this is looks like good balance.

inb4 "whine more n00b... wait.. WHAT?"

Signature removed. Navigator
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#65 - 2011-10-31 15:13:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
“Inertia Modifier -5% on the following ships”

…so the numbers in the now-famous sisi data dump were in other words modded in the wrong direction — the ships listed all got a +5% modifier when it should have been -5%?


Oh god I hope that you're right with this, Tippia. LolLolLolLolLol

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#66 - 2011-10-31 15:14:15 UTC
I'm okay with all these numbers.

My only concern is the T1 ammos. Most of them will almost never be used.

Example :
Iridium and Plutonium are kinetic+em
Uranium and Tungsten are thermal+explo.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#67 - 2011-10-31 15:14:21 UTC
Stan Kirby wrote:
Minmatar or projectile boost:
- +100% artillery burst damage
- overpowered cynobal, machariel, dramiel
- huge falloff bonus from TE and TC.

...
Gallente/hybrid boost:
- blasters tracking speed +20% .... LOL Lol
- railguns +10% damage ... megaLOL Lol

CCP fail... again.

It does have that feeling doesn't it?

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Z800XV
Proletariat.
#68 - 2011-10-31 15:14:28 UTC
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Make frequent recharging hybrids and equal to 5 seconds instead of 10. on each recharge a certain amount of capacitor will be taken instead of on each shot. say to recharge clip needed 150 capacitor instantly(well, make it around number of shots, example one shot take 10 capacity, clip have 15 ammo = 150 capacity) then shoot them without capaciy. number of rounds in the clip... say it will be 10-15. So we're partially leaving dependence DPS from capacity.

After this fix hybrids take their own place. Plus, this can vary damage mode depending on how many ammo will be in clip.(leveing it to devs) (example: 10 rounds with damage mode X10 and 5 rounds with damage mode x13 (well, calculate how much dps is lost by recharge to leave it the same as it is now)) DPS is still the same but appears new side - we have superDPS(also very close depend in clip) for a short time and in the coupe with overheating blasterboats would like everyone is waiting for.
Razin
The Scope
#69 - 2011-10-31 15:14:41 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
Tristan North wrote:
Please specify in that blog if it is an Agility Nerf or Agility Buff.
Most players are confused about it.


The agility change is an agility buff. The ships will be more agile.

Excellent!

Is this showing up on SISI anytime soon?
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#70 - 2011-10-31 15:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Louis deGuerre
Max Velocity +10

+10 or +10% ?

I like the changes but they are much too conservative. The major problem with blasterboats is and remains speed.

This blog is more a minmatar buff than a gallente one P
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#71 - 2011-10-31 15:15:37 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
Tristan North wrote:
Please specify in that blog if it is an Agility Nerf or Agility Buff.
Most players are confused about it.


The agility change is an agility buff. The ships will be more agile.


YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH

Ahem.

YEAAAARRGGJHGHGHGHGHGHG!!!!!! Big smile

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#72 - 2011-10-31 15:16:20 UTC
Re the ammos:
To paraphrase from here...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=14433

Rails should fill in the performance gaps leaving alpha and dps to the other weapon systems but doubling down on what is left...

Quote:
Ammo:
Railgun base damage increased by 10%

Spike base damage increased by 25%

Tech 2 Ammo now receives short range variants that alter the behaviour of the turrets (beyond additional dps, or range) either compensating for short falls or improving strengths of the turrets in very different ways.
- Quake - 25% increase to Artillery alpha, 5% Less damage than RF EMP and 33% less range and fall off.
- Gleam - Increases damage - 15% more damage than Navy Multifreqency and 33% less tracking and 33% less optimal range.
- Javelin - Increases tracking by 50% - 5% Less damage than CN Antimatter and 50% increased capacitor usage.

Hybrid Ammo receives reorganisation into 4 parts:
Antimatter remains unchanged
Iron base damage increased by 20%

Plutonium - (Same as current plutonium except: ), 20% Kinetic, 80% Thermal damage
Uranium - -(Same as current plutonium except: ), 80% Kinetic, 20% Thermal damage

Thorium - (Same as current thorium except: ) 0% increase to optimal, 20% increase to tracking, 80% Kinetic, 20% Thermal
Lead - (Same as current thorium except: ) 0% increase to optimal, 20% increase to tracking, 20% Kinetic, 80% Thermal damage

Iridium - (Same as current thorium except: ) 0% increase to optimal, 20% increase to falloff, 80% Kinetic, 20% Thermal
Tungsten - (Same as current thorium except: ) 0% increase to optimal, 20% increase to falloff, 20% Kinetic, 80% Thermal damage

Railguns now do more damage, and much more damage at longer ranges. True to the RP nature of what most of us consider railguns to be like, ultra high muzzle velocity means, damage attenuates much less at long to ultra long range.

This picture should help explain the changes: http://www.theskyunion.com/railguns.jpg

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Alundil
Rolled Out
#73 - 2011-10-31 15:16:51 UTC
White Flow wrote:


I don't actually fly Gallente, but when I do I wear my sunglasses.



O really?


I like these changes so far and hope they are "a start"

I'm right behind you
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2011-10-31 15:16:59 UTC
This is a nice and very long overdue first step.

But, as the devblog already hints, the real problem with nobody fighting in gallente ships is not the weapons systems per se, rather the boats using them.

Close range nimbleness and armor tanking don't match. Buffer armor tanking (the PVP one) even less, with the colossal weight penalty paid with plates.

And... About the buffs themselves:

Hybrids are buffed. But this doesn't buff Gallente only. Also Caldari ones.

T2 ammo are buffed. But this doesn't buff Gallente only. All four races have ammo violently buffed up.

You're really unable to give our race some EXCLUSIVE love, aren't you? You feel this urge to buff the already overused Minmatar or the ubiquitous Caldari in the meanwhile, huh?

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#75 - 2011-10-31 15:17:54 UTC
No cap usage reduction?

Fear God and Thread Nought
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#76 - 2011-10-31 15:18:38 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Stan Kirby wrote:
Minmatar or projectile boost:
- +100% artillery burst damage
- overpowered cynobal, machariel, dramiel
- huge falloff bonus from TE and TC.

...
Gallente/hybrid boost:
- blasters tracking speed +20% .... LOL Lol
- railguns +10% damage ... megaLOL Lol

CCP fail... again.

It does have that feeling doesn't it?



No... it has the feeling of CCP trying to balance something without creating FOTM lol-damage-mobiles.

Lets just see how these changes actually affect the game. If they're not enough they have already said they will go back and look at armor tanking ships combined with hybrids in future.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2011-10-31 15:19:05 UTC
I'm not at all convinced that the boost should be applied to small hybrids, which are already very competitive; Gallente frigates are already arguably the best in their respective classes. Also, what happened to the reduction in cap consumption?
Zi'Boo
Zi'Corp
#78 - 2011-10-31 15:19:24 UTC
You may also want to look into null ammo.

Both scorch and barrage extend the respective range by 50% (if you compare scorch to multi it's more like 300%), while null adds only 25% range.

Since blasters have about equal amount of optimal and falloff it's only fair that null would add 50% to both.
Kazanir
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2011-10-31 15:21:52 UTC
Tallest : In the datamined info from Chaos, we saw that all hybrid weapons (blaster and railguns, including capital types) had their capacitor usage reduced by 30%. This change isn't noted in your devblog. Does that mean that you forgot to mention the capacitor usage changes or that the cap changes will not be implemented?
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#80 - 2011-10-31 15:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis
Schmell wrote:
And S, M and L railguns still dont have place in current meta game (beam dont have it either funnily enough). All Hail (and quake) MINMATAR


I can't help but echo this sentiment. Rails still have no way to leverage that "average damage," at the rediculously long range they've got (that's before you recall that caldari ships also have an optimal bonus). Furthermore I see no mention of cap usage, tracking, or reload time: all of which plague the rail pilot in practice and make the platform a comparatively sub-par choice.

I want to believe that 10% damage and a little more leeway on grid/cpu will make headway for rails, but I have serious doubts.

Wacktopia wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Stan Kirby wrote:
Minmatar or projectile boost:
- +100% artillery burst damage
- overpowered cynobal, machariel, dramiel
- huge falloff bonus from TE and TC.

...
Gallente/hybrid boost:
- blasters tracking speed +20% .... LOL Lol
- railguns +10% damage ... megaLOL Lol

CCP fail... again.

It does have that feeling doesn't it?



No... it has the feeling of CCP trying to balance something without creating FOTM lol-damage-mobiles.

Lets just see how these changes actually affect the game. If they're not enough they have already said they will go back and look at armor tanking ships combined with hybrids in future.


It should be obvious to anyone with a shred of experience using railguns on non-frigate hulls that these changes are not going to do much of anything. I think we all know what happens if these ineffectual changes go live and are promised to be reviewed "in the future." I'd much rather see rails go fotm for a while than continue to see them all-but-ignored for another half decade.