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Templars of the Shadows 141
Tiger's Spirit Templars of the Shadows Likes received: 141	#241 - 2011-10-31 18:15:31 UTC 2 Steve4c wrote: stop trying to compensate gallente ships and address the real issue here. Blasters optimal & falloff is riddiculously weak! This is the point.

TL Castiel

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 9

#242 - 2011-10-31 18:16:58 UTC

Xenial Jesse Taalo wrote:

Not much of a hybrids buff really when they go and buff T2 rockets, missiles and Hail at the same time.

Ohh my God.. At the beginning there was Hail with tracking penalty and range penalty... You wanna do that 900 DPS in your Hurricane? Sure get in the face of the other as if you had blasters but guess what!
Make hurricanes and AC plantforms better compared to everything else: remove tracking penalty at first and then remove range penalty!

Boost hybrid while boosting AC-s so that hybrid boost will not worth xxxx

Vincent Gaines

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 595

#243 - 2011-10-31 18:17:11 UTC

Insane Randomness wrote:

So people seem to be missreading this, so I'll elaborate. This is the boost to JUST the weapons and ammo. They decided t start giving us the buff's to these GUNS first, not the ships. Stay tuned for hybrid starship balancing, as well, hopefully.

Considering this buff is 3-4 years in the making, don't blame people for not believing a ship change will follow if not anounced.

Quote:

Too those whom say "The speed boost isn't enough" let me elaborate on this as well. The Gallente are friends wityh the matari, and as such, their ships tend to have a decent speed next to amarrian or caldari ships. This is for a reason. A +10 m/s boost too speed translates to an extra 25 m/s with decent skills in afterburner, and an extra 250m/s with an MWD. Those whom say that there should have not been a boost too speed because of tracking are daft. Since when, in pvp, do you leave your MWD on all the time? I was under the impression that you use an afterburner all the time, at which point your new guns will certainly be able to track, or plus your mwd to get within range and then pound the **** out of them.

no, you run the MWD on a kiting fleet all the time. In a BC/BS your sig radius is already huge and you're focusing on optimal and alpha. This applies to skirmishes also, and even vaga gangs.

Quote:

Finally, too the dude whom said the eagle is useless because at long range it's DPS is low. No dip sherlock, at long range, every weapons DPS is going to be low, except for cruise missiles, whom I could get off three volleies and warp out before it hits me. The railgun has the second longest range in game, next too cruise missiles, and as such, will have one of the lowest DPS at range. Try useing shorter range, 160km is a bit too much. 100km will do you good, and if you focus on your skills and fittings I'll bet you could double your firepower. If not you could at least hit 350. and if you wanted to go short range, with an eagle I'll bet 30km and 450 DPS is possible now.

ok, you take your fleet of eagles at 100km to my fleet of canes. let's see how much damage you do before I burn 15km-20km and start taking you out one by one. I'll give you a clue- it will take seconds.

Quote:

I believe that this is good for the hybrid turret ships whom were fine the way they are, if not for the lack of power inthe guns, IE Megathron, Dominix, Brutix, Thorax, Incursus.

hybrids were fine? really?

Not a diplo.

The above post was edited for spelling.

Madner Kami

Durendal Ascending

Likes received: 57

#244 - 2011-10-31 18:18:47 UTC | Edited by: Madner Kami

Archetype 66 wrote:

All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier

How does it work ? I'm not comfortable with turret formulas and how bonus works (Turret + Skills + Ship Bonus+ Riggs + Implants etc...)* But does a +10% to Damage modifier means mandatory +10% DPS...I'm not sure about that and I feel that it can be more...

* I had read an excelent post about how bonus work and how they apply (Skills > Riggs with penality or not etc..) but I can't find it anymore. Anyone can link it or PM it to me. Tvm !

Re bump...

In a nutshell: It's a straight +10% to the damage modifier of a weapon (each volley will do 10% more damage per shot).

DPS = Damage per Time (here: in seconds)
Time = Refire Time of the weapon (including skills or ship bonuses)
Damage = Damage value of the used ammo multiplied with the Damage Modifier of the Weapon
Damage of the used Ammo = combined damage listed on a slug's stats
Damage Modifier of the Weapon = Mutliplier listed in a weapon's stats (including skills and ship bonuses)

DPS = Damage (ammo stat) * Damage Multipler (weapon stat) / Refire Time (weapon stat)

Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 17
Tashanaka Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation Likes received: 17	#245 - 2011-10-31 18:24:28 UTC Insane Randomness wrote: So people seem to be missreading this, so I'll elaborate. This is the boost to JUST the weapons and ammo. They decided t start giving us the buff's to these GUNS first, not the ships. Stay tuned for hybrid starship balancing, as well, hopefully.... Stay tuned?! It only took CCP how many years to get around to it.

Gabriel Karade

Coreli Corporation

Pandemic Legion

Likes received: 328

#246 - 2011-10-31 18:25:37 UTC

Can I ask how you came to the figure of 20% for the tracking boost?

I ask as, in the context of the web changes you refer to (90% --> 60%, representing a 400% change to potential target speeds under webbing), the proposed boost seems a bit 'meh'.

Also one thing that is mentioned a lot is damage; have you ever considered something such as boosting the 'overload' damage for blasters - i.e. you might not make it into the fight, but if you by some miracle get within optimal, you can shunt everything into the guns for a brief period to overwhelm a target.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Illectroculus Defined

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 187

#247 - 2011-10-31 18:25:39 UTC

Glad to see hybrids getting some love, before I really understood the game I trained them, and then when I got in a Rokh I loved that ship so much I just needed to get T2 rails on it, because flying a cool looking ship makes up for the better weapons systems on other, uglier ships.

Anyway the Rokh is still disadvantaged in a more general way, it still gets limited by the 250km hard limit on locking range, sure nobody build snipers for PVP, but this hard 250km range is another place where we bump up against random arbitrary limits on the sandbox. Is it ever going to be possible to remove this limit for this and every other ship?

KFenn

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 178

#248 - 2011-10-31 18:26:49 UTC | Edited by: KFenn

I love all the armchair video game designers in this thread. You don't know exactly how the changes will play out, and you're already calling for more buffs.

All we have is numbers. When we try these numbers out for real (and once metagame settles), THEN we'll know if anything else needs changing. Not until.

+1 for what looks like a solid set of changes CCP.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade

End of employment history 35
Illwill Bill End of employment history Likes received: 35	#249 - 2011-10-31 18:30:14 UTC Interesting. Have you considered removing the 249 km lock range limit. Assuming removing it won't do anything silly, like breaking research slots in NPC stations, or turning all text on the forum green, I can't really see any reason for keeping the range.

FlameGlow

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 66

#250 - 2011-10-31 18:31:35 UTC | Edited by: FlameGlow

-12% PG is still not enough for medium rails to fit well

Also Hail ammo boost WTF???? It already had less penalties than void and conflagration(25% capacitor use for 5% tracking penalty) and plan is to lift the only penalty that matters - falloff?

Illwill Bill wrote:

Interesting.

Have you considered removing the 249 km lock range limit. Assuming removing it won't do anything silly, like breaking research slots in NPC stations, or turning all text on the forum green, I can't really see any reason for keeping the range.

With scan being so easy it won't help anything


Tiger's Spirit Templars of the Shadows Likes received: 141	#251 - 2011-10-31 18:33:31 UTC 1 Blaster need more changes for better working. At least +50% optimal (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 4.5km optimal with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills) and at least +25% faloff (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 13km faloff with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills) After this changes would be 6.75km optimal, with 16.25km falloff. (antimatter)

Schwester Minotaur

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 10

#252 - 2011-10-31 18:34:11 UTC

Hi, i am from Germany, so please do not focus on my language :).

I also love the Rokh, but the bonus or better changes here - does not recognize that ship.

The Caldari built the Rokh to have a even Hybrid Platform against the gallente. And as the caldari are militants, they focused on sniper range - to get their additional bonus. So the Rokh have the +optimal Range bonus.

So why - it is hardcaped by 250km, even the Rokh is able to sniper on 320km+ ?.

You really should remove this hardcap, or gain the hardcap for that ship to make it even.

Greetings

KFenn

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 178

#253 - 2011-10-31 18:36:36 UTC

Tiger's Spirit wrote:

Blaster need more changes for better working.

At least +50% optimal (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 4.5km optimal with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills) and at least +25% faloff (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 13km faloff with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills)

After this changes would be 6.75km optimal, with 16.25km falloff. (antimatter)

Stop trying to make blasters like autocannons. They're -NOT- autocannons.

Autocannons = Assault Rifles. Blasters = Shotguns. Huge damage at zero range.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade

David Xavier

The Capsuleers of Unconscious Thought

Likes received: 29

#254 - 2011-10-31 18:38:13 UTC

Wu Phat wrote:

The Dominix will still not benefit from the buff as its limp **** power grid holds it back from being an awesome cheap solo or buffer gank/tank ship. Was hoping to fit a full rack of large neutron II's with buffer fit or large electron II's and double rep, double cap injection with this expansion, but that’s not going to happen. Straight

Actually I would love to see the Dominix get it's 6th high slot turned into an utility high slot, and get some extra PG in exchange, but I am afraid that is a pipe dream.

Back to topic, some update if any of the ideas posted in this thread are being considered or not.

I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it !

Xenuria

Likes received: 1,123

#255 - 2011-10-31 18:38:24 UTC

While you are fixing things everybody said you would never fix, how about you fix the tech 3 subsystems for the Proteus.

The drone subsystem should be able to fit Heavy Drones and the bonus to drone damage should be larger otherwise nobody is going to use it.

The Hybrid propulsion armature should get buffed too because that is the one I use for missions and even with my skills capped I find it's damage lacking. Maybe give it an extra turret slot, The art on the ship already reflects the capability to use the maximum of 8 turrets. Why not make the game play reflect that as well?

Hybrid Blasters are the Sawed Off Shotguns of eve online. They are Designed to be HIGH DAMAGE low range. I do think that the damage could be tweaked a bit.

Consider the following...
You have a pilot with all skills at 5

A single tech 2 medium drone with ship bonuses does more damage in 1 hit
Than
A single tech 2 medium Hybrid Blaster with ship bonuses and tech 2 ammo

Should something like a drone be doing more damage then a single blaster?

tl:dr
Good job CCP now just fix subsystems and hybrid damage needs a buff.

CSM 12 Candidate

KFenn

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 178

#256 - 2011-10-31 18:40:22 UTC

Wu Phat wrote:

What? The Dominix is a fantastically versatile ship, in Solo and as a Gank/Tank with sentries. Why don't you try flying the ship?

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade

Vincent Gaines

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 595

#257 - 2011-10-31 18:40:35 UTC

Schwester Minotaur wrote:

It doesn't matter. Anything over 150km and an on-grid prober will give an opponent a warpin at optimal. Sniping is dead in skirmish/fleet warfare right now.

Sure, you can sit 240km at a gate, have tackle on the gate, and snipe small groups but you might as well have a cane, mael, or tempest at closer range for more DPS.

The problem isn't that the Rokh (or Eagle) is a bad ship, it's just that for what it does, every other ship does its job BETTER.

Not a diplo.

The above post was edited for spelling.

41
Naso Gomez Likes received: 41	#258 - 2011-10-31 18:41:15 UTC 6 I currently fly Gallente with Large Hybrid 5, and I will still be making the switch to Minmatar Projectiles with these proposed changes. There's just no point of using a ship/weapon system that is clearly inferior to another.

Alex Harumichi

SoE Roughriders

Electus Matari

Likes received: 36

#259 - 2011-10-31 18:43:14 UTC | Edited by: Alex Harumichi

KFenn wrote:

Stop trying to make blasters like autocannons. They're -NOT- autocannons.

Autocannons = Assault Rifles. Blasters = Shotguns. Huge damage at zero range.

Agree on this. Problem is, when talking about medium and large blasters:

1) The ships need to be fast and nimble enough to be able to apply that zero range damage effectively. They aren't.

2) The damage that blasters do when in their optimal needs to be large enough to compensate for their tiny operational envelope. It isn't.

ACs are strictly better than blasters in almost all situations (talking about actual pvp here, not laboratory conditions), even more so considering the hulls that use them are also significantly faster than blaster hulls. This buff, unfortunately, does not change that equation (especially since it also contains a huge AC buff, which I see no reason for).

Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 703
adopt Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 703	#260 - 2011-10-31 18:44:05 UTC 3 All blaster turrets: +10% to Tracking speed All blaster turrets: +20% to Falloff All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier All railgun turrets: +10% to Tracking speed Suddenly my Hurricane can have a real 1v1 vs a Brutix