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New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

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LoRDa RaMOs
Vicious Traditions
#201 - 2011-10-31 17:25:45 UTC
All i can say is thank you for this first shot at hybrids.

Let's see how these changes play out and tweak the changes in the ( most likely near ) future.
Zerkuron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2011-10-31 17:26:42 UTC
Here are just y 2 cents.

I Think Blasterboats (High Damage, low Range) schould be the fastest Ships, while autocannon (really good range, good damage) should be more or less slow.

But here come the problems:

What abaout caldari and Amarr?

I would say Amarr schould be the ones with avarage speed and damage but good tank because they are endangered by both of the Specialized weapon Types. (Outranged or outgunned)

I don`t use Missiles or rockets so I can`t say anythig about this. I didn`t take E-War into account, but I think ECM is good as it is, but the other E-WAR should use a look at. Especially Dampener need an overhaul. (Maybe a fall-off or opti reduction instead of longer tergeting time, which only assist ecm but is in no way a standalone effect for use)

But one positive comment on the game. Freighters are well balanced P
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#203 - 2011-10-31 17:27:56 UTC
hey come to look at it... what about VOID ammo ? its a short range ammo and still has a stupid tracking penalty
syrus mac
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2011-10-31 17:29:27 UTC
This is just a clever way for CCP to remove some isk from the game while stimulating the economy!

Everybody is gonna jump in their Gallente ships, fly out to do battle and get totaly creamed only then realising that the Hybrid Buff is not good enough.

I would have though it was pretty obvious that the ship with the shortest range guns should go fastest?
OR......increase the range of those guns/ammo!

I suggest Industry chars stock up on Minmatar BPO's and minerals.
Addicted User
Falling Stars Squadron
#205 - 2011-10-31 17:29:48 UTC
Lasers nerfed again? Big smile
Ariane VoxDei
#206 - 2011-10-31 17:30:39 UTC
Perdition64 wrote:
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:
Sounds to me that when it comes to PvP, it's less a matter of hybrids being sucky, but of projectiles being ridiculously good.


That's becoming more and more apparent.

I dislike power creep, I have to say. Perhaps nerfing projectiles in line with other weapon systems is a better idea.
2005 called.

But speaking of which, we could start by making them use cap. Then look at alpha. And giving the hybrids and laser more versatility or taking some of the projectile versatility away (e.g. make them kin/exp only).

I'll get back to the hybrids later this week, when I have had time to discuss the changes OOG.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#207 - 2011-10-31 17:30:51 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
Tristan North wrote:
Please specify in that blog if it is an Agility Nerf or Agility Buff.
Most players are confused about it.


The agility change is an agility buff. The ships will be more agile.


I luv you Oops


While I'm very happy with these changes and want to thank you for this excellent first step, I'd like to hold (web) your attention on T2 blasters ammo.

Adding +20% tracking to those blaster turrets will somehow be negated by the penalty kept. (?)

Also, has many of us already mentioned in different threads, those little changes about speed and agility will certainly change how the ships will now react to the actual pvp environement.

My question for you, if you can find somehow some time to answer with all that stuff "to do", is about rigs plates armor tank mods, decresing speed maneuvrability.
Can this be something kept under the jacket for future (soon) changes if this is still not enough to bring Gallente line up competitive enough vs other races?

Has it stands, and for some of us, have the feeling that those changes will not be enough. What are your thoughts about this, is it possible that in a near future some other changes can be donne if gallente will still be the last choice you'll ever do for anything in eve?

Thank you for the good job.
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#208 - 2011-10-31 17:31:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ottersmacker
The fitting bonuses will probably result in a lot of good things (more available PG for more buffer and reps and so on), but the people making the balacing decisions should really try and force the role of blasters as "shortest range but very high damage with decent tracking".. at least that's how i've understood the concept of blasters thus far.
The superior damage is a key point and it would need to be even more pronounced, perhaps give them something like a 20% damage increase (not this specific flat percentage but just as an idea).

I'd love to see blasters made so good to be considered as the FOTM, right now pretty much the only reason to use blasters besides trying new things is to be deliberately underpowered in order to get more fights.


oh and hail is fine already -.-

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
Celebris Nexterra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2011-10-31 17:37:58 UTC
3 things.

1. Hybrid T1 ammo needs to be fixed. No one will ever use any ammo other than Antimatter, Null, or Void (Plutonium in rare cases). It all sucks, and sucks even more now that all hybrid turrets have the cap need significantly reduced (major bonus of other ammo types is less cap usage).

2. Railguns need a tracking boost OR the aforementioned ammo change should grant some sort of tracking boost. Artillery tracks almost identically to railguns while having far more range and alpha and no cap usage.

3. "Hail (all sizes): Removed falloff penalty"

WTFFFFFFFF!!! So you're saying there's no longer any reason to use high-damage ammo for AC's? Because that's what you just said. The only penalties left are now optimal range (LOL) and tracking. AC's are already the best-tracking guns in the game, and without limiting their range, that tracking penalty means LOLnothing to anything other than frigs. 425's on shield canes already hit easily at 15km+. Not to mention with the Loki's web bonus, it can now use Hail without having to compensate for a single thing.
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#210 - 2011-10-31 17:38:01 UTC
Wu Phat wrote:
The Dominix will still not benefit from the buff as its limp **** power grid holds it back from being an awesome cheap solo or buffer gank/tank ship. Was hoping to fit a full rack of large neutron II's with buffer fit or large electron II's and double rep, double cap injection with this expansion, but that’s not going to happen. Straight


Of course not, it's a drone boat, drones should do the majority of the DPS. That ship is one of the better ships using hybrids at the moment, and probably will still be after the changes. The problem with drones is that you can't improve the damage with modules (but the damage level isn't bad without mods), only sentries can be pushed a bit with rigs.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#211 - 2011-10-31 17:38:55 UTC
Guess I should restart building hail, what with it not sucking balls anymore. Also Hurray for Quake, It might actually hit that orbiting at 500 Raven now.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Garbad theWeak
#212 - 2011-10-31 17:40:28 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Garbad theWeak wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Garbad theWeak wrote:

- hybrid snipers are once again top in the game. At 200k, they outperform even lasers, and shockingly, caldari are the best. I think hybrids are officially fixed. You can debate if armor snipers are still better, but its competitive, especially the naga. They also should easily outrange pulses now.


First off, 200km sniping is a dinosaur strategy for obvious reasons. The fact they "easily out-range," a short-range weapon system shouldn't be an issue. In what way does this "fix," rails? Why would you choose to abandon a mael for a rokh because of these changes? Would you ever think that an eagle was a better choice than a zealot for sniper hac in light of these changes? If your answer is "yes," to either of those you either know something Tallest isn't telling us, or you're completely off-base.
Obviously, but if things change caldari hybrids are now the kings of 200k+ sniping. And that's it. For 100k sniperhacs, eagle is still the worst (lowest dps, EM hole, superfluous range). For 150k BS, maels still dominate. For brawlers, both nanopest and hellcat still dominate hybrid platforms.


Thanks for making my point. 200km sniping is not a niche worth having on any ship. Rails, hybrids in general, are in no way "top in the game," due to the listed changes. In-fact they're all still sub-par to their laser and especially projectile alternatives.

Are you changing your mind or just insisting that 200km snipers are better than we all know them to be?
You think we are arguing, but we are saying the same things -- even with the buffs, hybrids are by far the worst. Blasters are inferior to auto/pulse in all situations, rails are inferior to beam/arty in all situations except 200k+ sniping, which is useless thanks to probers.

The hybrid changes are not enough to fix the problem. Not even close.
Shimmir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#213 - 2011-10-31 17:43:49 UTC
ITT a bunch of whiners who are upset CCP might finally be learning how to balance in increments and not making hybrids into rapestorms.
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#214 - 2011-10-31 17:44:08 UTC
Archetype 66 wrote:
All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier

How does it work ? I'm not comfortable with turret formulas and how bonus works (Turret + Skills + Ship Bonus+ Riggs + Implants etc...)* But does a +10% to Damage modifier means mandatory +10% DPS...I'm not sure about that and I feel that it can be more...

* I had read an excelent post about how bonus work and how they apply (Skills > Riggs with penality or not etc..) but I can't find it anymore. Anyone can link it or PM it to me. Tvm !


Re bump...
Tokougawa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2011-10-31 17:44:45 UTC
I think the Energy System changes for the pilots is great, but damage is preferred.
Awe yea!
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#216 - 2011-10-31 17:45:26 UTC
Celebris Nexterra wrote:

WTFFFFFFFF!!! So you're saying there's no longer any reason to use high-damage ammo for AC's? Because that's what you just said. The only penalties left are now optimal range (LOL) and tracking. AC's are already the best-tracking guns in the game, and without limiting their range, that tracking penalty means LOLnothing to anything other than frigs. 425's on shield canes already hit easily at 15km+. Not to mention with the Loki's web bonus, it can now use Hail without having to compensate for a single thing.


Exactly! I thought this was suppose hybrid rebalance not a projectile buff.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#217 - 2011-10-31 17:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Boost web range 3%-5% per level, ship bonus

Boost blaster optimal 5%

Don't boost Hail (why?)

Remove on-grid probing.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Jeffrey Powel
Primal Elemental
MARABUNTA
#218 - 2011-10-31 17:51:26 UTC
Archetype 66 wrote:
Archetype 66 wrote:
All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier

How does it work ? I'm not comfortable with turret formulas and how bonus works (Turret + Skills + Ship Bonus+ Riggs + Implants etc...)* But does a +10% to Damage modifier means mandatory +10% DPS...I'm not sure about that and I feel that it can be more...

* I had read an excelent post about how bonus work and how they apply (Skills > Riggs with penality or not etc..) but I can't find it anymore. Anyone can link it or PM it to me. Tvm !


Re bump...



it's simply 10% more to the damage modifer of the gun.
crazyr2
M.E.H
#219 - 2011-10-31 17:54:19 UTC
When I started playing a few years back, gaming friends were giving me advice - go Gallente, get in close to people and melt them. So I went Gallente. I have trained T2 large hybrids and Gall BS5.

Rails sound better than before, but where is the Blaster love? Giving blasters a tracking boost won't change much imho. People can complain about the range, but that's not what blasters are all about - its damage.

Tracking bonuses aren't going to make blasters more useful in 0.0 or PvP. Warping to 0 and melting stuff would, there no reason to do that now and there won't be afterwards.
Celebris Nexterra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2011-10-31 17:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Celebris Nexterra
Hmmm, I am now motivated to make a stupidly simple analogy for what you're saying about blasters vs all other weapon types.

You give a person a shotgun (Gallente ship with blasters), you give the opponent an assault rifle (Minmatar ship with AC's). You place these two people in an open field at 50m (any place in space where the ships do not land on top of each other). The person with the shotgun is actually Aretha Franklin, while the person with the AR is Usain Bolt. Usain is able to run at full speed while shooting his gun and never missing, while Aretha "runs" while shooting and never hitting. Sure, it'll take a few hits before she goes down, but she has absolutely no chance to ever hit her target. NOW BOOST HER SPEED BY 10%!!!!

And you tell me this is fair?