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Hi Sec POCO
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#61 - 2013-09-27 20:08:13 UTC
Starrakatt wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Being scared is not an issue. Having to run 50+ jumps through hisec (no JBs, no titan bridges) every time any 10-man gang decides to take a potshot at one of their POCOs would get boring really fast. Realistically even the entire CFC isn't able to effectively project power over all of highsec on such scale. This isn't fighting a concentrated war in a single region against a single large entity. We're talking about swatting every single fly living in highsec. Even if no single highsec corp stands a chance in a direct fight, if the "combined forces of highsec" reinforce 10 POCOs in different corners of space every day, we can only defend so many until it's not worth the effort.

This. ^ ^ Especially considering defensive fleets roaming Hisec from POCO to POCO are not in 0.0 doing what they usually do. Also, such ).) gangs/fleet will get blueballed all the times since this is Hisec and NPC stations. Boring, VERY quickly.

Also, I been a Nulbear myself, now reformed into Hisec wannabee PvPer, and not ashamed about it! \o/

So, thinking that a big nulsec entity will have the time and/or ressources to deal with constant Hisec POCO harrassment is unrealistic.

But as I said, small sectors of Hisec could possibly controlled by said Nulsec entities (staging systems/constellations). Also Hisec entities, enough big FW alliances/Corps to manage that in their chosen Hisec home systems and surroundings. Also, will attract fights, which is good from a PVP viewpoint.



Now this man know what he is talking about, sir, if I had the ability to press that up vote button I would, however I disabled Java and very little works, but I won't get hacked. Spot on comment sir!!!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#62 - 2013-09-27 20:16:54 UTC
Who wants to go to every planet in hisec and shoot structures? Raise your hand!

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-09-27 20:23:48 UTC
I would imagine that the "plan" would entail something not too hard or difficult to pull off but that would have some sort of larger impact. Maybe like control of all poco's within 8 jumps or so of Jita. Something that would have impact to highsec as a whole.

The ice inderdiction is and has always been a local condition centered around Jita as well.

Its as if Jita was high sec. And the rest of high sec is of little consequence.
Ginger Barbarella
#64 - 2013-09-27 23:07:08 UTC
Sixx Spades wrote:
Miniluv says hi.


Who?

And no, I don't care.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Scooter McCabe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-09-28 08:07:24 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Who wants to go to every planet in hisec and shoot structures? Raise your hand!


I don't think you realize how much fun that would actually be for us. First there is the misery everyone would suffer. Then there is the piling on of misery that comes from every carebear thinking "oh no they will never grind all that its just to miserable to do." So when we do it anyway it will be heralded by a wave of disheartening misery. Misery that the impossible is in fact happening, and misery that life extinguishing taxes must be paid to the swarm. Then as a poop-on-your-face bonus comes the misery from the realization that the only way to stop us is to fight. Which as you know means that only more goons will show up hastening the inevitable.

We had all of Null Sec against us in Fountain facing a gap in manpower and supers, and we won. If we honestly come for your POCOs Hi Sec's crappy mechanics compare nothing to Null Sec's soul crushing SOV mechanic issues. SOV mechanic issues we enjoy grinding.

So yeah we rent. Rent now and be spared. Only those that rent won't lose everything.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#66 - 2013-09-28 13:47:03 UTC
Jackie Arkaral wrote:
AmI the only one that has an issue with HI Sec POCOs? The comment on the announcement was that if a corporation set the tax rate too high, that was fine. People would just go elsewhere.

What happens when a large nullsec alliance decides that they want to shut down hisec PI for "fun" and sets the rate to 100% across 100's of systems.


perhaps capsuleers will... stand up for themselves???

Thank me later :D
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#67 - 2013-09-28 14:38:54 UTC
Scooter McCabe wrote:
[quote=Jackie Arkaral]

...Then you would need a few thousand of them since one guy can't do it alone. One big fat neck beard or one who has recently lost a lot of weight by eating ham and has recently dressed up as an admiral or commodore. So it would have to start with a guy like that getting orders from some kind of person who likes yoga, dire wolves and a love hate relationship with Jaegermeister. Okay so you would need that combo going and then thousands of sadistic mischief makers to follow along.

Did I mention we rent now?


= Goonswarm?? Minus the neckbeards and ham, perhaps...

Or am I way off? Not intended to be an insult... however, don't you guys take pride in your ability steamroll just about everything for the lulz of it??

Thank me later :D
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-09-28 15:34:12 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Grozen wrote:
Jackie Arkaral wrote:
AmI the only one that has an issue with HI Sec POCOs? The comment on the announcement was that if a corporation set the tax rate too high, that was fine. People would just go elsewhere.

What happens when a large nullsec alliance decides that they want to shut down hisec PI for "fun" and sets the rate to 100% across 100's of systems.


then we will just have to adapt to the new prices, which also mean modules which said alliances use will become as expensive as the taxes they put on carebears.So its a win win situation nobody has the upper hand.


This really is true. Most PI stuff goes to fuel nullsec POS arrays and make the POS equipment that we need. Taxes get raised, you charge more for the stuff you make, it is simple economics.

Also, I am pretty sure that player owned POCOs have a cap on how high you can set the tax, so there is also a limit there.

Have faith, we may end up owning all of the POCOs, but we won't shut you down!


You don't even have to launch via the CO. It is perfectly possible to launch via the command centre and not pay the CO owners any tax. If any organisation tried taking all these poco's accross all of high sec it would cost them a fortune and result in millions of reinforce timers for them as everyone else took them down. I am sure people will try and gain control of certain areas or certain planet types but the idea that one group can or would want to control every planet is ludicrous.
My experience in npc null and low is that taxes are lower than npc or the CO gets attacked a lot.
Goon plans are likely going to be confined to plasma planets only or certain regions or will involve suddenly changing tax rates and i am sure many others are planning similar hi-jinx.
What is for sure is that high sec Pi will be slightly more interesting than before. Just make your own plans and get your own allies and keep some measure of control over your area.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#69 - 2013-09-29 11:44:24 UTC
Avoid all this and just do your PI in Low Sec. End of story.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Oxide Ammar
#70 - 2013-09-30 10:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxide Ammar
My speculations regarding this:

1- PI products will reach its prices peaks around the release of the new expansion but eventually it will stabilize below market prices than we have today, because everyone and his grandmother will be doing PI.

2- tax rates of Hi Sec POCO will be for sure less than NPC tax rates or we didn't accomplish anything with this new feature which why will market prices will be less than what we have now.

3- expect any one doing PI in Hi Sec today will be piling his P1/P2 products till his/her corp manage to extract them at low tax rate either by taking the POCO to themselves or wait till someone do it on behalf of them. By that way they will be slightly ahead of the market with truck load of products to exploit the initial market prices post the launch.

4- low sec corp who are holding couple of system's POCO will be forced to lower their tax rate if they actually want to compete with high sec POCO new tax rates.

5- Most of P1/ P2 production will be made in low sec (null sec PI is excluded from this formula since they can do it from P0 to P4 safe ) and rest will be done with 0 risk in high sec since you tend to go back and forth hauling 2-3 mats to process higher level of Commodities, which leads the most important point of my post :

6- expect a cutthroat wars over Barrens and Temperate planet's POCOs, since you can only deploy High Tech Production Plants only on these planets. As result who ever control the these planets controls the market prices.

7- technically null sec cartels can't control Hi Sec totally because if they ever focused to do this job its better for them leave null and babysit their POCOs in high sec, but expect them to control POCOs in max radius of 5 jumps of every market hub.

8- there will be a lot of brain storming of best profit of either setting tax rates at 100% and keep the planet resources to yourself or setting moderate tax rate to profit from others players PI.

9- since high sec are all the same and we only differentiate between system and another based how many jumps its away from nearest market hubs, we will be expecting a lot of adv in sell order section in the forums for corps holding Hi Sec POCOs and their tax rates.

10- Not everyone wants to wet his hands with bashing NPC POCOs at start since it's gonna be pain in the ass job and most likely you will get suspect flag doing this, as result Merc. corps will be having new service to offer.

11- Starting from BPC till the materials required to manufacture it will be skyrocketing from now on, you better start working on this.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
DeAira
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-09-30 21:47:39 UTC
Hi sec PI will become unprofitable unless you are in a large corp. Margins are already slim and the tax rate in my neighboring lo sec system is at 100%.

This is one source of income that newbies will lose. Apparently that is a good thing.

#justice4VileRat
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-10-01 02:50:37 UTC
DeAira wrote:
Hi sec PI will become unprofitable unless you are in a large corp. Margins are already slim and the tax rate in my neighboring lo sec system is at 100%.

This is one source of income that newbies will lose. Apparently that is a good thing.



Not really, newbees don't start with any PI skills so they don't lose out on anything.

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Heckar Ottig
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-10-01 04:30:35 UTC
Well, this news wouldn't be so bad if CCP made some sort of modular PI colony thingie that would allow to place a new one with a few clicks instead of spending a ******* eternity deploying new colonies and routing all the **** in it.
Thom Tarifik
Texas Exploration Production And Manufacturing
#74 - 2013-10-01 15:51:10 UTC
The players who don't do PI don't really care about the change unless they can take profit or enjoyment from causing stress or mayhem. Those who do PI in hi-sec would just like to be left alone to go about their business. Eve like so many other MMO's has bent itself against those whom just like to craft to favor the PvP'ers by indexing more conflict or potential conflict. Under supply and demand in the real world the PvPers far outnumber crafters and therefore MMO's give in to them over those who like an opportunity to build or craft. So goes PI then... the small time player is done for on PI... takes too long to launch and retrieve making the time input not worth it. PI was nice in hi-sec while it lasted and I am surprised CCP did this as has been stated the profit margin is so small now. I have complete respect for the PvPers as they work hard to be able to handle their ships and are good at what they do... they will see this blog as whining and I will not deny it... but the only choice is to quit.... very sad.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#75 - 2013-10-01 16:16:37 UTC
This is actually a good change for hisec (and, well, eve as a whole). There are tons of players who just go about their lives in a state of "well, this is how things are" and never really get engaged in the game.

CCP is now empowering the hisec industry types to take more control of their activities ... just with consequences for trying to take this control (as with everything).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
DeAira Skord
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-10-01 16:22:29 UTC
It becomes less of a sandbox when you are forced to do things a certain way. If they want HiSec to be like LoSec, then why not just make it so?

The Devblog stated today that you can only attack a POCO if you have a war dec on them. Makes sense.

Now, if I could only convince my NPC Corp to wardec them ...
Velicitia
XS Tech
#77 - 2013-10-01 16:31:25 UTC
TBH, the only major difference between hisec and lowsec is in lowsec, there is no CONCORD.

sure, (super)caps can come to the party, and you can do a few additional industrial things ... but at the end of the day, the biggest reason that people stay in hisec is that CONCORD offers pilots a relatively safe environment wherein to do things.

you could even go so far as to say hisec is 100% safe for most POS setups...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Private Industry
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2013-10-01 17:06:01 UTC
Quote:
The NPC tax will continue for hi sec POCOs (as we want low sec POCOs to still be competitive). The tax rate stays the same, at 10% for export and 5% for import. This is then in addition to whatever tax the player owner sets.

How exactly is there any profit to be made owning a CO in hisec? If I put a tax on my POCO, nobody will use it because you still have to pay the NPC tax on top of it. People will just move to NPC controled planets.

On top of that, there's no penalty (aside from ammo) for going around destroying all the hisec COs and just not replacing them, thus crippling hisec PI operations. But I'm sure such greifing won't happen in a game like EVE.
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#79 - 2013-10-03 18:09:06 UTC
Private Industry wrote:
Quote:
The NPC tax will continue for hi sec POCOs (as we want low sec POCOs to still be competitive). The tax rate stays the same, at 10% for export and 5% for import. This is then in addition to whatever tax the player owner sets.

How exactly is there any profit to be made owning a CO in hisec? If I put a tax on my POCO, nobody will use it because you still have to pay the NPC tax on top of it. People will just move to NPC controled planets.

On top of that, there's no penalty (aside from ammo) for going around destroying all the hisec COs and just not replacing them, thus crippling hisec PI operations. But I'm sure such greifing won't happen in a game like EVE.


You're correct on both counts. and OP is also correct. Though personally, I don't see anything wrong with GSF spending their time grinding litterally hundreds of customs offices. I do fully expect that they'll probably burn entire regions, like maybe Forge and Citadel to start, then expanding from there.

No matter, there will be much more violence in Eve, and I am not at all a war-profiteer. Not at all.
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#80 - 2013-10-03 21:03:25 UTC
Private Industry wrote:
Quote:
The NPC tax will continue for hi sec POCOs (as we want low sec POCOs to still be competitive). The tax rate stays the same, at 10% for export and 5% for import. This is then in addition to whatever tax the player owner sets.

How exactly is there any profit to be made owning a CO in hisec? If I put a tax on my POCO, nobody will use it because you still have to pay the NPC tax on top of it. People will just move to NPC controled planets.

On top of that, there's no penalty (aside from ammo) for going around destroying all the hisec COs and just not replacing them, thus crippling hisec PI operations. But I'm sure such greifing won't happen in a game like EVE.


It will take 2 days max and there will not be any Temperate/Barren Planets without a POCO.

If someone shoots the NPC Office and does not put up a new one someone WILL put a POCO there.