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Dear CCP please dont nerf the machariel

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Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#61 - 2013-09-10 15:11:29 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
That 'flavour' is kicking on for 490 DPS...I'm gonna go ahead and not ignore it Smile



Yeah and you are wasting FIVE slots to get another 130DPS. Its a waist, and you are giving up that big advantage of the hull which is its natural god tank. Strikes me as doing it the hard way personally.

Are we still talking missions here? If so, I'd like to know what the hell you're talking about. Everybody knows that in missions damage is king. The faster you kill things, the faster the mission ends and the faster the damage goes away. Also he said 490 DPS. I'm not sure where you got 130.

And if you have to waste 5 slots to get another ~500 DPS, then sure, as long as your tank is still sufficient for missions. But all that being said, yeah, in those circumstances you might as well just use a Machariel. It does all that and easier.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-09-10 15:16:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Goldensaver wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
That 'flavour' is kicking on for 490 DPS...I'm gonna go ahead and not ignore it Smile



Yeah and you are wasting FIVE slots to get another 130DPS. Its a waist, and you are giving up that big advantage of the hull which is its natural god tank. Strikes me as doing it the hard way personally.

Are we still talking missions here? If so, I'd like to know what the hell you're talking about. Everybody knows that in missions damage is king. The faster you kill things, the faster the mission ends and the faster the damage goes away. Also he said 490 DPS. I'm not sure where you got 130.

And if you have to waste 5 slots to get another ~500 DPS, then sure, as long as your tank is still sufficient for missions. But all that being said, yeah, in those circumstances you might as well just use a Machariel. It does all that and easier.


If you are giving up that tank you can do it MUCH better with a domi for a 1/4 of the price.

...or just fly a mach and not need the tank.


Plus trust me you aren't getting 500 DPS for four non-damaged bonus launchers
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#63 - 2013-09-10 15:25:41 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
That 'flavour' is kicking on for 490 DPS...I'm gonna go ahead and not ignore it Smile



Yeah and you are wasting FIVE slots to get another 130DPS. Its a waist, and you are giving up that big advantage of the hull which is its natural god tank. Strikes me as doing it the hard way personally.

Are we still talking missions here? If so, I'd like to know what the hell you're talking about. Everybody knows that in missions damage is king. The faster you kill things, the faster the mission ends and the faster the damage goes away. Also he said 490 DPS. I'm not sure where you got 130.

And if you have to waste 5 slots to get another ~500 DPS, then sure, as long as your tank is still sufficient for missions. But all that being said, yeah, in those circumstances you might as well just use a Machariel. It does all that and easier.


If you are giving up that tank you can do it MUCH better with a domi for a 1/4 of the price.

...or just fly a mach and not need the tank.


Plus trust me you aren't getting 500 DPS for four non-damaged bonus launchers


Well then the tank might as well go because as said before, we all know gank is tank.

But you are right about the Missile damage. I took what was said earlier at face value, but with 4 cruise launchers with furies, 3 BCU's and a 5% RoF and 5% CM implant it only gets 463 DPS. And I can't imagine one actually cramming that in just for the sake of the 4 launchers on a rattler.

Really the only purpose I can actually see for a rattler is bait tank or for really, REALLY maxing out the tank because you're scared the big scary mission will touch you inappropriately. And if you're baiting in a Rattler you'd better have a Cyno, because unless the backup arrives instantly your prey will be able to slowboat away from you.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-09-10 15:30:06 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
That 'flavour' is kicking on for 490 DPS...I'm gonna go ahead and not ignore it Smile



Yeah and you are wasting FIVE slots to get another 130DPS. Its a waist, and you are giving up that big advantage of the hull which is its natural god tank. Strikes me as doing it the hard way personally.

Are we still talking missions here? If so, I'd like to know what the hell you're talking about. Everybody knows that in missions damage is king. The faster you kill things, the faster the mission ends and the faster the damage goes away. Also he said 490 DPS. I'm not sure where you got 130.

And if you have to waste 5 slots to get another ~500 DPS, then sure, as long as your tank is still sufficient for missions. But all that being said, yeah, in those circumstances you might as well just use a Machariel. It does all that and easier.


If you are giving up that tank you can do it MUCH better with a domi for a 1/4 of the price.

...or just fly a mach and not need the tank.


Plus trust me you aren't getting 500 DPS for four non-damaged bonus launchers


Well then the tank might as well go because as said before, we all know gank is tank.

But you are right about the Missile damage. I took what was said earlier at face value, but with 4 cruise launchers with furies, 3 BCU's and a 5% RoF and 5% CM implant it only gets 463 DPS. And I can't imagine one actually cramming that in just for the sake of the 4 launchers on a rattler.

Really the only purpose I can actually see for a rattler is bait tank or for really, REALLY maxing out the tank because you're scared the big scary mission will touch you inappropriately. And if you're baiting in a Rattler you'd better have a Cyno, because unless the backup arrives instantly your prey will be able to slowboat away from you.




Not arguing that.
Fact is with decent skills you can push 900ish DPS with a (comparatively) thin 1000 DPS active tank, cap stable. So going fulling full ****** on gank mods is something of a false economy to me.

Not for four crappy launchers.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#65 - 2013-09-10 15:33:42 UTC
[Rattlesnake, Mission gank]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I

5% cruise and missile ROF implants.

There you go, 490 cruise DPS. So what if it takes six modules?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-09-10 15:40:29 UTC
I knew someone was going to do that.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-09-10 16:07:00 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
That 'flavour' is kicking on for 490 DPS...I'm gonna go ahead and not ignore it Smile



Yeah and you are wasting FIVE slots to get another 130DPS. Its a waist, and you are giving up that big advantage of the hull which is its natural god tank. Strikes me as doing it the hard way personally.

i just want to point out that a waist is the part between the upper and lower regions of interest on a young lady.

I should buy an Ishtar.
000111000
Special Tactics Squadron
#68 - 2013-09-10 22:01:20 UTC
I'm a returned pilot after 2 years offline, and if they nerf the Machariel BS I won't be willing to play EVE again like before.

so yes, I wish CCP to not nerf the ship, instead they can create new ones... but don't ruin the ones we have/want.

thanks for understanding.
Heather Tsukaya
Doomheim
#69 - 2013-09-10 22:13:57 UTC
It will still be a good ship, fast ships always end up being useful.

However, if a ship is the fastest in its class, then it needs to have a serious weak point to make up for it, because speed is just so powerful in Eve.

The Machariel doesn't have any weak points like that. Having less range than a nightmare, and being squishier than a vindicator is not the same as having a serious weak point.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-09-11 04:33:34 UTC
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
It will still be a good ship, fast ships always end up being useful.

However, if a ship is the fastest in its class, then it needs to have a serious weak point to make up for it, because speed is just so powerful in Eve.

The Machariel doesn't have any weak points like that. Having less range than a nightmare, and being squishier than a vindicator is not the same as having a serious weak point.



So wait, if speed is so powerful why is it that I have ever seen three nano-machs?

No one cares about PvE I can do level 4s in any battleship in the game, some would take longer that others but it's not like it's hard.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#71 - 2013-09-11 06:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
But my whole point to begin with was to not compare dominix mach rattle, but since people did compare the rattlesnake in a favorable light to the machariel I had to call bullshit on that.


I fly Both. RS can finish almost all non-angel missions faster than the mach every time with the same 3 slot tank. I don't use the scrub ass MJD for starters. So nerfing the Mach and either buffing or not touching the RS would leave us with RS and Domi as better boats than the Mach. Nerfing the RS and Mach would leave the Domi better than both. Both of those scenarios suck . The only thing they can possibly do is nerf the agility and speed which has already been done. So essentially admit they didn't do the job right the first time.

RS gets an explosion radius and explosion velocity buff and remove the missile velocity buff, Domi gets a 2nd nerf to the drone tracking and range, and Mach gets a 2nd nerf to agility/speed. Thats the only way its going to be fair, will still leave the RS better than the Mach, and sin't going to happen because CCP doesn't want to admit the ****** up the balancing 4 times already on just 2 ships.

Quote:
No one cares about PvE I can do level 4s in any battleship in the game, some would take longer that others but it's not like it's hard.


It makes a huge difference in time consumption which makes a huge difference in number of subs. While it may not be a top priority for you, CCP definitely recognizes that if they nerf peoples income over time it will cause real loss of income for them.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-09-11 07:01:30 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
But my whole point to begin with was to not compare dominix mach rattle, but since people did compare the rattlesnake in a favorable light to the machariel I had to call bullshit on that.


I fly Both. RS can finish almost all non-angel missions faster than the mach every time with the same 3 slot tank. I don't use the scrub ass MJD for starters. So nerfing the Mach and either buffing or not touching the RS would leave us with RS and Domi as better boats than the Mach. Nerfing the RS and Mach would leave the Domi better than both. Both of those scenarios suck . The only thing they can possibly do is nerf the agility and speed which has already been done. So essentially admit they didn't do the job right the first time.

RS gets an explosion radius and explosion velocity buff and remove the missile velocity buff, Domi gets a 2nd nerf to the drone tracking and range, and Mach gets a 2nd nerf to agility/speed. Thats the only way its going to be fair, will still leave the RS better than the Mach, and sin't going to happen because CCP doesn't want to admit the ****** up the balancing 4 times already on just 2 ships.

Quote:
No one cares about PvE I can do level 4s in any battleship in the game, some would take longer that others but it's not like it's hard.


It makes a huge difference in time consumption which makes a huge difference in number of subs. While it may not be a top priority for you, CCP definitely recognizes that if they nerf peoples income over time it will cause real loss of income for them.


Hi sec people are hilarious.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-09-11 10:37:47 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The Machariel is, and has been overpowered for quite a long time. Its rebalance is long overdue. I can't produce a link at the moment, but I know that CCP has stated either on the forums or in a dev blog that the Mach will be brought in line with the other faction battleships.



Overpowered ok but in what and how much?

DPS? -nope

DMG application bonus? -absolutely

Ship agility? -completely, a BS with cruiser agility, fit nanos and you get frigate agility, this is stupid as f_ck.

In short all this ship needs is dmg application bonus reduced and agility nerf to the ground, add some mass and it will get in line with other pirate BSs.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-09-11 10:42:52 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
[Rattlesnake, Mission gank]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I

5% cruise and missile ROF implants.

There you go, 490 cruise DPS. So what if it takes six modules?



Sry rather use my 1150DPS CNR if I want to watch things die slowly, if not a good gank Navy Mega is just awesome.
How can you guys use drones to kill stuff? - time it travels I've already pop at least 2 cruisers, time they kill their cruiser I've already powned at least one BS and meanwhile my shiitty lights are chewing frigates and I'm slow boating to next gate.

I tried hard to love drone boats but I just can't, I really can't.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-09-11 10:43:54 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Berendas wrote:
The Machariel is, and has been overpowered for quite a long time. Its rebalance is long overdue. I can't produce a link at the moment, but I know that CCP has stated either on the forums or in a dev blog that the Mach will be brought in line with the other faction battleships.



Overpowered ok but in what and how much?

DPS? -nope

DMG application bonus? -absolutely

Ship agility? -completely, a BS with cruiser agility, fit nanos and you get frigate agility, this is stupid as f_ck.

In short all this ship needs is dmg application bonus reduced and agility nerf to the ground, add some mass and it will get in line with other pirate BSs.


Really application bonus? You mean the fall off that means you do like 100 dps at 50km? Or pin yourself to exp damage to get range.

.....and frigate agility, please.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-09-11 10:57:48 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
How can you guys use drones to kill stuff? - time it travels I've already pop at least 2 cruisers, time they kill their cruiser I've already powned at least one BS and meanwhile my shiitty lights are chewing frigates and I'm slow boating to next gate.


Sentries. No travel time, instant damage.

And, given the irksome bug of rats refusing to die/eating extra volleys, they're actually kinda nicer than usual Smile
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-09-11 10:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Onictus wrote:
Really application bonus? You mean the fall off that means you do like 100 dps at 50km? Or pin yourself to exp damage to get range.


Not sure if serious.....


Edit: Or maybe you meant per gun....that'd actually be closer Cool
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-09-11 11:12:50 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Berendas wrote:
The Machariel is, and has been overpowered for quite a long time. Its rebalance is long overdue. I can't produce a link at the moment, but I know that CCP has stated either on the forums or in a dev blog that the Mach will be brought in line with the other faction battleships.



Overpowered ok but in what and how much?

DPS? -nope

DMG application bonus? -absolutely

Ship agility? -completely, a BS with cruiser agility, fit nanos and you get frigate agility, this is stupid as f_ck.

In short all this ship needs is dmg application bonus reduced and agility nerf to the ground, add some mass and it will get in line with other pirate BSs.


Really application bonus? You mean the fall off that means you do like 100 dps at 50km? Or pin yourself to exp damage to get range.

.....and frigate agility, please.



If you do 100dps with your machariel at 50km you're doing it wrong or trolling me.

Secondly about agility, again you're either trolling me or you've never fit/rig any machariel for agility purpose and fly it to see what happens.
Yes it warps faster than Cruisers, with MWD on goes faster than major cruisers (except Cynabal and now Vaga) and with links on+implants you get frigate agility, believe it or not, just try it out and then troll me again.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2013-09-11 12:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
**** this god damned forums.

I had a post layed out fit and all and it ate them. fit stats and whatnot, not retyping it.

Pussiant parts

Mach has barely above long range hac projection, 50000 ish EHP a 8 .5 sec align and goes 2550 overheated with a T2 MWD. hardly what I would call unbalanced, and if you think that is faster than everything but Vaga and Cynabal you need to put the AB down and learn to MWD.


I have a a number of kills in one how about you guys?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#80 - 2013-09-11 12:25:46 UTC
You need to put the glass of wine down, mate.

Mine's a shiraz. And i am in no fit state to theorycraft.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~