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Dear CCP please dont nerf the machariel

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Jon Matick
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-09-09 03:01:21 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Jon Matick wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The machariel is fine as it is, if anything the other nano bs need a buff.

there ARE no other nano BSs, and there's the crux of the issue...
the mach need either it's speed or damage/projection nerfed by probably as much as 25% to bring in anywhere NEAR in line with other 'nano' BSs.
hell, even with a 25% speed nerf, it would STILL be the fastest BS anywhere.


There are a few, nano phoon is very much a thing, and nano pest/fleet pest work quite well too. You can also fly a kiting raven/scorpion navy/golem.

youre...joking right?
Ok, so the other ships you list can probably kite armour buffer BSs, but nothing else.

a mach can hit 2k/s+ and hence can kite BCs and a lot of cruisers, which is beyond ridiculous.
the only other BS i can think of that can be semi effectively flown nano is the tempest but it isnt even in the same genre of game, let alone league, as a mach.

My Blog:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-09-09 03:58:17 UTC
Quote:

a mach can hit 2k/s+ and hence can kite BCs and a lot of cruisers, which is beyond ridiculous.
the only other BS i can think of that can be semi effectively flown nano is the tempest but it isnt even in the same genre of game, let alone league, as a mach.


Nice "Big Fish" story.
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#23 - 2013-09-09 07:40:00 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:


ive seen a near max skilled mach unable to break the tank on a near max skilled passive shield tanked rattler. Also the vindi does more dps than the mach albeit at terrible ranges but then thats blasters for u.

I agree with wolf the mach is fine as it is...


Pull the other one, it has bells on. You can make Rattlers with 4K DPS tank of passive regen. Any BS would be unable to break that -in fact, every so often the odd killmail pops up (usually pimped wormhole Rattlers) where the ship takes 2-4M damage before going under. It is not a reason for saying the machariel is fine and not in need of a nerf.

The Machariel does more damage than most other battleships. it is the fact it is exceptionally fast and has three weapon bonuses which make it OP. Its falloff bonus gives it unrivalled damage projection.

it is stronger in every way (shield, armour, hull) than the maelstrom, for example. It has one more slot to play with.

its sig is 30% lower, base.

its scan res is 50% higher, base.

its sensor strength is 20% higher.

It has a bigger drone bay.

its base velocity is nearly 80% faster than the Maelstrom.

Arguably you would think "well, i am paying a billion ISk I would want these kind of attributes!" but CCP does not set the price on the hull. Players do. The reason you pay a billion ISK is because of these attributes, which have no achilles heel.

That's not balanced. You do not have to give anything up, compromise in any way, suffer a drawback if you fly the Machariel. The meta of the game is damage projection, range and mobility (to avoid hard tackle), all of which the machariel does better at than most ships in the game, if not all.

So, yes. nerf inbound.


That, and I am not even screaming nerf but that is a good explanation.
I have to add to that, being that when people like to point at the rattlesnake they ignore the fact it is stationary due to sentries.
But to top it off it can't dictate range because it falls into the lowest speed bracket 91m/s 2 more then the slowest BS, on top of the fact it is stationary to begin with and uses missiles thus not increasing damage application by kiting.
Its dreadful agility doesn't even allow it to get a sexy orbit around your sentries for tanking purposes.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-09-09 08:15:12 UTC
Marcus Walkuris wrote:


That, and I am not even screaming nerf but that is a good explanation.
I have to add to that, being that when people like to point at the rattlesnake they ignore the fact it is stationary due to sentries.
But to top it off it can't dictate range because it falls into the lowest speed bracket 91m/s 2 more then the slowest BS, on top of the fact it is stationary to begin with and uses missiles thus not increasing damage application by kiting.
Its dreadful agility doesn't even allow it to get a sexy orbit around your sentries for tanking purposes.


And, despite being stationary in most situations, its horrible drone control range doesn't allow it to snipe AT ALL. You need PERFECT skills, two utility highs and possibly one or two weird rigging choices in order to shoot at ¿110Km? with its longest reaching drones.

Because you cannot shoot with Sentries beyond your drone control range, no matter what is the optimal + falloff of your drones, or your targeting range.

If you cram all the highs with drone link augmentors, you have to give up the missiles, and then it falls way beyond the new Dominix in applied DPS (tracking, duh).

The Machariel is amazing for EVERYTHING. Great tank, great scan res, great reach, great DPS, best agility and speed of its class, makes for a better alpha sniper than a Tempest, makes for a wonderful brawler with selectable damage, etc etc.

No, the tracking enhancer nerf was NOT a Machariel nerf. The Machariel, as the Cynabal, deserve a chop on the nerfing block. I'd hit them where it hurts: speed and agility. Yes, I have Gallente and Minmatar BS V, and T2 Large autocannons and arties. No, I'm not in favor of nerfing it "because I can't fly it".

It's just too damn good at EVERYTHING, too versatile, too obvious a choice for most situations where a BS might be needed, be it PvP or PvE.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#25 - 2013-09-09 08:35:08 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Marcus Walkuris wrote:
P.S. To the original poster, for as long as I've played EvE the mach has been outrageously powerful on a pedestal all to its own.
With a very wide range of PWN application throughout PvP and PvE alike.
That said I don't own one and never flew one, although I've followed Xyrdiana around in one (with my gimpy drake).

I would guess they will tune the ships to be a little more excelling towards their pirate faction origins.
And not one ship to rule them all.


ive seen a near max skilled mach unable to break the tank on a near max skilled passive shield tanked rattler. Also the vindi does more dps than the mach albeit at terrible ranges but then thats blasters for u.

I agree with wolf the mach is fine as it is...

Yeah, but if the Rattlesnake is so great why does it cost less than half as much as a Mach? It's equally as difficult to obtain...

Slaved Lovechild wrote:
Got it it's way better than the Maelstrom. I don't think you'll get any argument to that. The Mach is also over a billion ISK. Of course it's better!... If it wasn't why would anyone pay that. By some posters logic the navy version of the Hurricane is OP. How about T3 cruisers...

Anyways this is all moot because it's just rumor till it's announced by CCP. The Mach was already nerfed and I don't see any major nerf happening.

"Hurhurhurhurhur, it's over a billion ISK therefore it should be OP."

It's over a billion isk because it's OP. Have you looked at the Rattlesnake? You get the Rattler the same way you get the Mach, by grinding faction missions with a pirate faction. They cost the same to make (in theory). So why does the Rattler, which is pretty much exactly on par with the Mach for all intents and purposes, cost less than half as much?

Oh right, because CCP doesn't directly control the market. The players have decided a Mach should cost that much because of how effective it is. Not the other way around.


I'm not saying it's ridiculously overpowered and needs to be nerfed into the ground. Just saying that cost is hardly an argument as the cost will be set by the players to match the supply and demand. Machs are just that good, therefore the demand is much higher.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#26 - 2013-09-09 08:44:54 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:
Marcus Walkuris wrote:


That, and I am not even screaming nerf but that is a good explanation.
I have to add to that, being that when people like to point at the rattlesnake they ignore the fact it is stationary due to sentries.
But to top it off it can't dictate range because it falls into the lowest speed bracket 91m/s 2 more then the slowest BS, on top of the fact it is stationary to begin with and uses missiles thus not increasing damage application by kiting.
Its dreadful agility doesn't even allow it to get a sexy orbit around your sentries for tanking purposes.


And, despite being stationary in most situations, its horrible drone control range doesn't allow it to snipe AT ALL. You need PERFECT skills, two utility highs and possibly one or two weird rigging choices in order to shoot at ¿110Km? with its longest reaching drones.

Because you cannot shoot with Sentries beyond your drone control range, no matter what is the optimal + falloff of your drones, or your targeting range.

If you cram all the highs with drone link augmentors, you have to give up the missiles, and then it falls way beyond the new Dominix in applied DPS (tracking, duh).



Its got the same control range as a dominix. Dominix and rattlesnake will shoot 121km with 2 DLAs and a rig. Rattlesnake gives up 2 utilty highs to do so, the dominix gives up 2 turrets. Also the rattlesnake is a brick, which is a reasonable explanation for its movement speed, and balanced.

If you want a fast battleship, please visit your local angel mission agent and test drive a mach today. Also if you need your rattlesnake 100km away in no more than 12 seconds, there is a module for that.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#27 - 2013-09-09 08:49:01 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Marcus Walkuris wrote:
P.S. To the original poster, for as long as I've played EvE the mach has been outrageously powerful on a pedestal all to its own.
With a very wide range of PWN application throughout PvP and PvE alike.
That said I don't own one and never flew one, although I've followed Xyrdiana around in one (with my gimpy drake).

I would guess they will tune the ships to be a little more excelling towards their pirate faction origins.
And not one ship to rule them all.


ive seen a near max skilled mach unable to break the tank on a near max skilled passive shield tanked rattler. Also the vindi does more dps than the mach albeit at terrible ranges but then thats blasters for u.

I agree with wolf the mach is fine as it is...

Yeah, but if the Rattlesnake is so great why does it cost less than half as much as a Mach? It's equally as difficult to obtain...

Slaved Lovechild wrote:
Got it it's way better than the Maelstrom. I don't think you'll get any argument to that. The Mach is also over a billion ISK. Of course it's better!... If it wasn't why would anyone pay that. By some posters logic the navy version of the Hurricane is OP. How about T3 cruisers...

Anyways this is all moot because it's just rumor till it's announced by CCP. The Mach was already nerfed and I don't see any major nerf happening.

"Hurhurhurhurhur, it's over a billion ISK therefore it should be OP."

It's over a billion isk because it's OP. Have you looked at the Rattlesnake? You get the Rattler the same way you get the Mach, by grinding faction missions with a pirate faction. They cost the same to make (in theory). So why does the Rattler, which is pretty much exactly on par with the Mach for all intents and purposes, cost less than half as much?



They also drop, and the price of rattlesnake bpc's is plainly in drop territory, not LP territory. The big price difference probably either says there is more gurista space, or gurista space has been more consistently farmed.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-09-09 09:17:45 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:


ive seen a near max skilled mach unable to break the tank on a near max skilled passive shield tanked rattler. Also the vindi does more dps than the mach albeit at terrible ranges but then thats blasters for u.

I agree with wolf the mach is fine as it is...


Pull the other one, it has bells on. You can make Rattlers with 4K DPS tank of passive regen. Any BS would be unable to break that -in fact, every so often the odd killmail pops up (usually pimped wormhole Rattlers) where the ship takes 2-4M damage before going under. It is not a reason for saying the machariel is fine and not in need of a nerf.

The Machariel does more damage than most other battleships. it is the fact it is exceptionally fast and has three weapon bonuses which make it OP. Its falloff bonus gives it unrivalled damage projection.

it is stronger in every way (shield, armour, hull) than the maelstrom, for example. It has one more slot to play with.

its sig is 30% lower, base.

its scan res is 50% higher, base.

its sensor strength is 20% higher.

It has a bigger drone bay.

its base velocity is nearly 80% faster than the Maelstrom.

Arguably you would think "well, i am paying a billion ISk I would want these kind of attributes!" but CCP does not set the price on the hull. Players do. The reason you pay a billion ISK is because of these attributes, which have no achilles heel.

That's not balanced. You do not have to give anything up, compromise in any way, suffer a drawback if you fly the Machariel. The meta of the game is damage projection, range and mobility (to avoid hard tackle), all of which the machariel does better at than most ships in the game, if not all.

So, yes. nerf inbound.


As someone else has said dont compare a pirate bs to a t1 bs please. thats like comparing an assault frig to a t1 frig... The mach is an expensive ship not just to buy but to fit as well. It should be worth the isk you pay. If we're to continue comparisons please compare it to the other pirate bs.

And how does it get better shielding than a maelstrom? maybe base buffer shielding i dk i cant rememebr the numbers. but the maelstroms shield boost bonus gives it an awesome tank at level 5. Off the top of my head the maelstrom does 1k dps and has 1.2k dps active tank at level 5 skills with a crystal set of implants....
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-09-09 09:28:44 UTC
hah so much qq for an imbalanced op ship
time to end the mach era
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#30 - 2013-09-09 09:40:36 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
They also drop, and the price of rattlesnake bpc's is plainly in drop territory, not LP territory. The big price difference probably either says there is more gurista space, or gurista space has been more consistently farmed.

Or possibly the fact that, when CCP "Accidentally the loot tables", the Cynabal BPO was well distributed (and bragged about on the forums) is keeping the price of the Mach (as an associated vessel) artificially surpressed...
Perhaps its price point would otherwise be significantly higher...
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-09-09 09:44:54 UTC
When you're getting into pirate battleships, I get the sense that the demand is for more efficient killing machines - the Rattlesnake's raw survivability is second to none, but its DPS plateaus quite a bit lower than the Mach, the Nightmare, or the Vindicator. Those ships' hull bonuses are pretty much pure gank, while the Rattlesnake has a resist bonus, a drone bonus that matches only one of the two Dominix drone bonuses, and a missile range bonus that's pretty much useless. It's got its uses - I've seen them used as anchors in incursions - but it's not as reliable a moneymaker as the Mach or the Nightmare, and not nearly as terrifying on the field as a Vindicator or a Bhaalgorn.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#32 - 2013-09-09 11:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Walkuris
Tauranon wrote:


Its got the same control range as a dominix. Dominix and rattlesnake will shoot 121km with 2 DLAs and a rig. Rattlesnake gives up 2 utilty highs to do so, the dominix gives up 2 turrets. Also the rattlesnake is a brick, which is a reasonable explanation for its movement speed, and balanced.

If you want a fast battleship, please visit your local angel mission agent and test drive a mach today. Also if you need your rattlesnake 100km away in no more than 12 seconds, there is a module for that.





There is a failure to understand mechanics.
The snake does not have the range the dominix has drone-wise.
What this means is it does not gain near immunity to E-war and damage like the dominix does due to severely outranging everything far beyond any gunnery boat.
This in turn means you will rely on your tank more and deal with the E-war more commonly, it does not have nearly the snipe a dominix does.
Do not claim they have the same range since a dominix essentially has close to 2 faction tracking modules as a ship bonus, which in turn can be multiplied by said tracking modules.
A rattlesnakes attributes really detract from its package as it isn't merely ship bonus vs ship bonus.
The rattle imho is very powerful but has some real issues, MJD dependance being one of the major ones.
A MJD in PvE is most commonly a way for low skilled players to circumvent a lack in core/support skills, it slows you down immensely since you have to use 6 minutes for one mission pocket as a missioner and an added 3 minutes after if the pocket too hot to tank upon entry, which coincidently is the most common reason to fit a MJD.
As a travel tool a MJD is the worst of all, since it always travels 100KM with a dreadful cooldown.
And please don't quote 121km control based off of the fact control range rigs are currently bugged not to be stacking penalized.


But my whole point to begin with was to not compare dominix mach rattle, but since people did compare the rattlesnake in a favorable light to the machariel I had to call bullshit on that.

Since it is mentioned though. Dominix is currently the best PvE sniper platform.
The rattlesnake is a strong missionboat, but clunky and much more situational.(I have many adapated fits saved whereas a buddy of mine has a one fit all DPS tanking machariel sporting 1100 mobile dps with all tech2 except for 3 modules ending at about 400mill in fitting cost (the usual republic afterburner, faction shield booster, just to dispel the must officer fit myths although implants are another story).
Machariel can handle pretty much anything thrown at it, all ships struggle with large gurrista missions Machs too but still do much better then most. (rattlers do okay vs gurristas if theyre active tanked only, or passive but with severe dps gimping fits).
A rattler will severely gimp dps or mobility detracting from its effectiveness outside and inside the hangar (refitting), and to top it off a passive tanked rattler is NOT an active tanked one and no one will swap rigs for it, there is no passive tanked 1100 dps rattlesnake with a 10mill EHP tank.
The dominix is an excellent PvE sniper platform and I would comfortably call it the best standard BS for PvE and will outdo a rattlesnake on some missions maybe even a mach I have not tested them on gurristas enough but with the proper tanking skills I could see it do well on gurristas with their 90km engagement range both E-war and missiles.

P.S. @ MArc Calllan.
I think you hit the nail on the head with what you wrote there.
IF you ask anyone flying anything would you like 30% more dps or tank your answer will be swift and enthusiastic.
Especially since one should consider missions and a lot of PvE content is configured to be tankable by most standard BS or need a group of people period.
Thus starting from the premise that an "average" tank is sufficient for pretty much all solo PvE content "gank"=all.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-09-09 11:22:04 UTC
Mathias Orsen wrote:
I just like the way that all the people that have never flown a mach claim that it is OP and not having the slightest clue that it is not just a billion isk Hull, it is a billion isk hull that is often fit with billions of isk in mods.

My Mach is not Overpowered, My Wallet is.

you do realize that there are other 1bil pirate battleships and even among them the mach is king? while its dps and projection are good but not exceptional, its mobility is just over the top and needs to be nerfed by at least 20% or so to get the ship in line.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-09-09 11:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Bastion Arzi wrote:

As someone else has said dont compare a pirate bs to a t1 bs please. thats like comparing an assault frig to a t1 frig... The mach is an expensive ship not just to buy but to fit as well. It should be worth the isk you pay. If we're to continue comparisons please compare it to the other pirate bs.


well, how about we compare it to the nightmare then? let's see... according to my face, the mach has:
- better paper dps
- damage type selection
- cap independent weapons
- bigger drone bay and bandwidth
- a LOT more speed
- a LOT more agility
- smaller signature
- higher scan resolution

pretty much the only advantages of the nightmare are cheaper ammo and better damage projection. incidentally, these two factors are important enough to make the nightmare a competitor in lvl4 missions (albeit only in amarr space), but anywhere else the mach just beats it hands down.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#35 - 2013-09-09 12:03:10 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:


As someone else has said dont compare a pirate bs to a t1 bs please. thats like comparing an assault frig to a t1 frig... The mach is an expensive ship not just to buy but to fit as well. It should be worth the isk you pay. If we're to continue comparisons please compare it to the other pirate bs.

And how does it get better shielding than a maelstrom? maybe base buffer shielding i dk i cant rememebr the numbers. but the maelstroms shield boost bonus gives it an awesome tank at level 5. Off the top of my head the maelstrom does 1k dps and has 1.2k dps active tank at level 5 skills with a crystal set of implants....


Poppycock.

i compared the Machariel with the Maelstrom because the maelstrom is the most effective Minmatar turret battleship now the Phoon is solely a missile boat now. I was not comparing it with the Vargur, which can (roughly) compete with a machariel in some missions.

True, the Maelstrom gets more active rep. This is fine if you solely look at the ability of a ship to tank mission rooms like a derp, having aggroed too many things. The Machariel, with its lower base sig, greater speed and greater DPS does not need such a strong tank. it sheds damage via movement, DPSs down the enemy BS quicker (negating the need of a permatank) and will be out of range of the room aggro faster.

In PVP, buffer is important to avoid, eg, being alpha'd. With an XLASB your Maelstrom relies on the enemies throwing themselves fruitlessly at it and tanking everything. The Machariel relies on everything chasing it and dying. Like I said before, mobility is king, and I doubt anyone who flies a Machariel really cares it does not have a shield boost bonus. A cheap deadspace rep or an ASB and you get plenty of shield HP while flying around the place at 2km/s, which is faster than a cruiser on MWD. Which is just plain ridiculous.

Also, thanks for quoting Crystals for the Maelstrom's tank. Lets throw Crystals on a Mach, or better yet, slaves and go 2.4km/s and outrun even Vagabonds.

You are on the wrong side of history here; the Macha needs a nerfbat, as does the Cynabal. It will happen, and all your logic and all the king's Men won't matter for diddly squat.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-09-09 12:08:08 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:

As someone else has said dont compare a pirate bs to a t1 bs please. thats like comparing an assault frig to a t1 frig... The mach is an expensive ship not just to buy but to fit as well. It should be worth the isk you pay. If we're to continue comparisons please compare it to the other pirate bs.


well, how about we compare it to the nightmare then? let's see... according to my face, the mach has:
- better paper dps
- damage type selection
- cap independant weapons
- bigger drone bay and bandwidth
- a LOT more speed
- a LOT more agility
- smaller signature
- higher scan resolution

pretty much the only advantages of the nightmare are cheaper ammo and better damage projection. incidentally, these two factors are important enough to make the nightmare a competitor in lvl4 missions (albeit only in amarr space), but anywhere else the mach just beats it hands down.


and the nightmare has:

more cpu
more cap
higher targeting range
more sensor strength
more shields
instantaneous ammo swap/reload
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-09-09 12:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Bastion Arzi wrote:

and the nightmare has:

more cpu
more cap
higher targeting range
more sensor strength
more shields
instantaneous ammo swap/reload


really? you're gonna bring this weaksauce? well fine:
- more cpu is irrelevant as long as you have enough cpu for a decent fit. otherwise i may as well say "the mach has more powergrid hurrdurr".
- the slightly better cap is negated completely by the weapons and the fact that you have to fit an mwd to go faster than 300ish m/s
- two more sensor strength. 28 vs 26.if that is not a winning argument i don't know what is.
- higher raw shield HP is only relevant in PVP buffer fits. ironically, the nightmare is a terrible pvp ship compared to the mach so in the end it has 0 relevance.
- instant ammo swap is an advantage but i would take different damage types over different ranges any day.

bottom line, no matter how much space lawyering you try and do, the fact remains: the mach outdoes its siblings by a significant margin. bringing it in line will be better for the game and any unbiased player will admit it.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-09-09 13:03:47 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Mathias Orsen wrote:
I just like the way that all the people that have never flown a mach claim that it is OP and not having the slightest clue that it is not just a billion isk Hull, it is a billion isk hull that is often fit with billions of isk in mods.

My Mach is not Overpowered, My Wallet is.

you do realize that there are other 1bil pirate battleships and even among them the mach is king? while its dps and projection are good but not exceptional, its mobility is just over the top and needs to be nerfed by at least 20% or so to get the ship in line.


Frankly, I'd go the other way around - leave Mach's mobility unparalleled (it's "the minmatar thing"), but drop its falloff bonus for something else. The result would be a very fast, highly agile and somewhat squishy short range ship, much as they're used by Angels.

Then add the falloff bonus to Fleet Tempest and you have a winner combo :D
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-09-09 13:07:29 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:

and the nightmare has:

more cpu
more cap
higher targeting range
more sensor strength
more shields
instantaneous ammo swap/reload


really? you're gonna bring this weaksauce? well fine:
- more cpu is irrelevant as long as you have enough cpu for a decent fit. otherwise i may as well say "the mach has more powergrid hurrdurr".
- the slightly better cap is negated completely by the weapons and the fact that you have to fit an mwd to go faster than 300ish m/s
- two more sensor strength. 28 vs 26.if that is not a winning argument i don't know what is.
- higher raw shield HP is only relevant in PVP buffer fits. ironically, the nightmare is a terrible pvp ship compared to the mach so in the end it has 0 relevance.
- instant ammo swap is an advantage but i would take different damage types over different ranges any day.

bottom line, no matter how much space lawyering you try and do, the fact remains: the mach outdoes its siblings by a significant margin. bringing it in line will be better for the game and any unbiased player will admit it.


Fine you make a good point. but please leave the mach as it is. Maybe its the other pirate bs that need a buff...
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-09-09 13:07:46 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Mathias Orsen wrote:
I just like the way that all the people that have never flown a mach claim that it is OP and not having the slightest clue that it is not just a billion isk Hull, it is a billion isk hull that is often fit with billions of isk in mods.

My Mach is not Overpowered, My Wallet is.

you do realize that there are other 1bil pirate battleships and even among them the mach is king? while its dps and projection are good but not exceptional, its mobility is just over the top and needs to be nerfed by at least 20% or so to get the ship in line.


Frankly, I'd go the other way around - leave Mach's mobility unparalleled (it's "the minmatar thing"), but drop its falloff bonus for something else. The result would be a very fast, highly agile and somewhat squishy short range ship, much as they're used by Angels.

Then add the falloff bonus to Fleet Tempest and you have a winner combo :D


pls god no