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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7001 - 2013-10-30 16:20:19 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Though the runiation of the armour Marauders in Incursions with these changes is well-documented, it will be quite interesting to see how CCP deals with the cries out outrage when this ship class nerf hits all the mission-runners who don't read the forums.

Frankly, given CCP's hatred of its own high sec customer base, not much will happen. and they will ignore the inevitable many many post Nov 19th threads complaining how the ship class was wrecked.

And the vast majority of people still have not clued in how badly nerfed all BS based income is with the warp speed nerf.

Winter is coming...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7002 - 2013-10-30 16:57:37 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sure, 50% Bastion falloff is fine if we can get a +25% flight time as well for missiles.

25% still wont help torps to beat that 50km mark you need a 30/30% buff to get over it


give 15% optimal and 30% falloff is better than 25%/25% which makes paladin and kronos op and vargur garbage. golem doesnt need change imo.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7003 - 2013-10-30 17:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Vinyl 41 wrote:
25% still wont help torps to beat that 50km mark you need a 30/30% buff to get over it

I'd give it all up for 15-25% damage boost instead.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Xamiakas
United-Empire
#7004 - 2013-10-30 17:14:17 UTC
all bs 5`s CHECK
MArauder 5 CHECK

Bring it, ladies! :D

<-- unbelievably low tollerance to stupidity in people. That + you being your mother's child might aswell be the main reason why i am NOT your father.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7005 - 2013-10-30 17:20:34 UTC
Xamiakas wrote:
all bs 5`s CHECK
Marauder 5 CHECK
Bring it, ladies! :D

Kudos. Can't justify Marauders myself, as I'm going to wait and see how badly battleships fare after Rubicon. Hope looked slim for our heroes...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#7006 - 2013-10-30 17:22:05 UTC
Mer88 wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sure, 50% Bastion falloff is fine if we can get a +25% flight time as well for missiles.

25% still wont help torps to beat that 50km mark you need a 30/30% buff to get over it


give 15% optimal and 30% falloff is better than 25%/25% which makes paladin and kronos op and vargur garbage. golem doesnt need change imo.

zzzz thats how i feel when people ask me how is the golem better then RNI with cruise spec >_> i wouldnt call that perfectly fine
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7007 - 2013-10-30 17:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Current stats are:

100m3 volume
When deployed has storage of 27000m3 (just slightly less than a jetcan)
125km tractor range
Can tractor one target at a time.



Posted by Fozzie on the test server forums.


looks like marauder tractors bonus is dead...



Edit...

Oh, and they don't get targeted by NPCs, and they can be trolled with damps and such..
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#7008 - 2013-10-30 17:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Serge SC
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Current stats are:

100m3 volume
When deployed has storage of 27000m3 (just slightly less than a jetcan)
125km tractor range
Can tractor one target at a time.



Posted by Fozzie on the test server forums.


looks like marauder tractors bonus is dead...



Edit...

Oh, and they don't get targeted by NPCs, and they can be trolled with damps and such..

derp derp never mind, i should've read first lol

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7009 - 2013-10-30 18:01:39 UTC
Serge SC wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Current stats are:

100m3 volume
When deployed has storage of 27000m3 (just slightly less than a jetcan)
125km tractor range
Can tractor one target at a time.



Posted by Fozzie on the test server forums.


looks like marauder tractors bonus is dead...



Edit...

Oh, and they don't get targeted by NPCs, and they can be trolled with damps and such..

1 at a time, but at regular 600m/s speed.

I think a non-bastion 2-tractor 2-salvager +salvager drones setup will be faster than waiting for a wreck at 60km be pulled at 600m/s, even more so if it's further.

Granted, if you can carry 10 of those, drop several per room, and then comeback to pick everything up, could be faster.


I shall answer you with another CCP Fozzie quote

CCP Fozzie wrote:
You can scoop and reuse it. If you scoop it while it has items in the cargo, it will spawn a jetcan with those items which you can then loot what you'd like from.

Tractor speed is currently set at 2000m/s, but very well may change. We're aiming to tune it as a useful item but still leave value to be gained by going with a marauder or noctis tractoring instead. The key advantage of using a ship or course is the option to use more than one tractor beam at once.
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#7010 - 2013-10-30 18:04:31 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Serge SC wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Current stats are:

100m3 volume
When deployed has storage of 27000m3 (just slightly less than a jetcan)
125km tractor range
Can tractor one target at a time.



Posted by Fozzie on the test server forums.


looks like marauder tractors bonus is dead...



Edit...

Oh, and they don't get targeted by NPCs, and they can be trolled with damps and such..

1 at a time, but at regular 600m/s speed.

I think a non-bastion 2-tractor 2-salvager +salvager drones setup will be faster than waiting for a wreck at 60km be pulled at 600m/s, even more so if it's further.

Granted, if you can carry 10 of those, drop several per room, and then comeback to pick everything up, could be faster.


I shall answer you with another CCP Fozzie quote

CCP Fozzie wrote:
You can scoop and reuse it. If you scoop it while it has items in the cargo, it will spawn a jetcan with those items which you can then loot what you'd like from.

Tractor speed is currently set at 2000m/s, but very well may change. We're aiming to tune it as a useful item but still leave value to be gained by going with a marauder or noctis tractoring instead. The key advantage of using a ship or course is the option to use more than one tractor beam at once.


Yeah, just read it. I should've before posting.

That structure makes marauders' bonus a bit useless...

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7011 - 2013-10-30 18:08:21 UTC
Serge SC wrote:
Yeah, just read it. I should've before posting.

That structure makes marauders' bonus a bit useless...


about the only thing the Marauder tractor is good for now, is picking up mission objective loot.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7012 - 2013-10-30 18:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Serge SC wrote:
That structure makes marauders' bonus a bit useless...

Entirely useless. Just deploy 8 of these (only 400m3 of cargo space). Have we finished completely screwing up the Marauder up yet?

Joe Risalo wrote:
about the only thing the Marauder tractor is good for now, is picking up mission objective loot.

Maybe you can use it to tractor the deployable structures around, lol. Roll

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7013 - 2013-10-30 18:13:11 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Serge SC wrote:
That structure makes marauders' bonus a bit useless...

Entirely useless. Just deploy 8 of these (only 400m3 of cargo space). Have we finished completely screwing up the Marauder up yet?

Joe Risalo wrote:
about the only thing the Marauder tractor is good for now, is picking up mission objective loot.

Maybe you can use it to tractor the deployable structures around, lol. Roll


They're 100m3 per structure, and to be able to tractor a tractor would be awesome, lol
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#7014 - 2013-10-30 18:14:44 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Serge SC wrote:
That structure makes marauders' bonus a bit useless...

Entirely useless. Just deploy 8 of these (only 400m3 of cargo space). Have we finished completely screwing up the Marauder up yet?
[/quote]
It said 100m3. But carry 8, 800m3. We have 1150 cargohold. The Paladin needs only around 20m3 of cargo. Say 850m3 with scripts and whatnot. You have 300m3 for salvage.

Joe Risalo wrote:
about the only thing the Marauder tractor is good for now, is picking up mission objective loot.

Maybe you can use it to tractor the deployable structures around, lol. Roll[/quote]

I was thinking, can we tractor them? If so, that'd be so funny just having your ship with a short tail of structures lol

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7015 - 2013-10-30 18:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Joe Risalo wrote:
They're 100m3 per structure, and to be able to tractor a tractor would be awesome, lol

I guess that's increased since the original estimate of 50m3. Yeah, just trying to think 'outside the box' here... hehe.

Serge SC wrote:
It said 100m3. But carry 8, 800m3. We have 1150 cargohold. The Paladin needs only around 20m3 of cargo. Say 850m3 with scripts and whatnot. You have 300m3 for salvage.

I was thinking, can we tractor them? If so, that'd be so funny just having your ship with a short tail of structures lol

Well, 4 anyway (that still leaves close to 800m3 for cargo space). 4 automated tractor beams vs. 2 manual ones, hmmmm... Might as well just give the Marauders a salvage distance/cycle/% bonus - because I seriously doubt anyone will actually put tractors on Marauders post-Rubicon (unless it's for tractoring the tractor structure around).

These new structures are going to be ripe for abuse. I'm already imagining semi-permanent low-sec gate camps with the refit structures...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7016 - 2013-10-30 18:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Right so next mission tested, one I am far more familiar with, sansha blackade.

This mission almost made me rage quit when they introduced TD. It takes me around an hour or more with multiple warp outs on TQ at the moment WITH a MWD fitted and 1 tracking comp, a gist x-type large and 3 hardener tank.

Something to keep in mind I am only a 30mill character I do NOT have max skills. Salvage drone 4, marauder 3, shield compensation 4 and missing quite a few gunnery 5s as well as a capacitor skill or two.

Now the fit I used on sisi is:
[Vargur, Sansha Blockade]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Booster II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II

Hobgoblin II x10
Salvage Drone I x5
Tracking Speed Script x3
Republic Fleet EMP L x8560

End result: 25minutes
Isk+Loot+salvage: 35 377 375 (11 797 625 first tick)
Rounds used: 1404 (around 1.5mill worth)

I would be genuinely interested to hear if someone has better stats than those. You'd prolly have to do it in a cruise golem because of TD.

You know what's the funniest thing? I STILL didn't do it optimally because I am still stuck in that old lv4 mentality of having to watch my triggers. Screw the triggers. In fact shoot the triggers first. If I had I wouldn't have had to MJD AT ALL because they orbit at around 44-47km. Heck I could have fit a sensor booster or something (TP? lol) in its place and would have been shotting more shaving a few minutes off my total time.

Also, and hee's the best part, my salvage drones were salvaging faster than I could kill and tracktor the wrecks hahahahahahahah.

ps. large and XL T2 shield booster have exactly the same shield boost/cap but the large is less dangerous to forget on.

omg I just had a thought. The paladin will absolutely OWN this mission Shocked

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#7017 - 2013-10-30 19:16:03 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:

omg I just had a thought. The paladin will absolutely OWN this mission Shocked

It does.

A tach bastioned paladin destroys everything in that mission. No need for MJD or MWD. It becomes so easy, but that's because of the high DPS and EMP main damage.

Only reason I moved was to get closer to the wrecks to salvage them.

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
DTson Gauur
Underground-Operators
#7018 - 2013-10-30 19:18:59 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
*snip a wall-o'-text*
omg I just had a thought. The paladin will absolutely OWN this mission Shocked


Well, Paladin, Kronos OR Vargur will absolutely _murder_ this mission with bastion:

Warp in @0 -> Bastion -> Shoot triggers -> Warp out , even with "just average" skills the completion time will be sub 5 minutes, I can actually do it in ~3 with a bastioned rail kronos

Sure you miss out bounties etc, but you don't do it for the ISK, you do it for LP.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7019 - 2013-10-30 19:42:12 UTC
DTson Gauur wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
*snip a wall-o'-text*
omg I just had a thought. The paladin will absolutely OWN this mission Shocked


Well, Paladin, Kronos OR Vargur will absolutely _murder_ this mission with bastion:

Warp in @0 -> Bastion -> Shoot triggers -> Warp out , even with "just average" skills the completion time will be sub 5 minutes, I can actually do it in ~3 with a bastioned rail kronos

Sure you miss out bounties etc, but you don't do it for the ISK, you do it for LP.

I do it for the isk and loot personally so YMMV.

Ok second mission, Dread Pirate Scarlet mwahaha! (I fubared it and didn't kill her in the 3rd room :( )

So same fit as last one actually (Identical)
Room 1: Serps
Room 2: Gurista
Room 3: Serp
Room 4: Angle + Serp

Full clear, full salvage: 37min
Isk + Loot + Salvage: 52 182 126 (I missed out on 5mill bounty and a potential implant)
LP: 6888
Rounds used: 1.5k Phased 164 Fusion, all faction so around 1.7mill

The MJD was amazing in the last room (Landed at 0 on the serp spawn point lol) and I even managed to land a perfect 2 jump onto the gate in room 2 and 3.

Also interesting thing! If a gate is 70km away, you will most likely land within 5km of it aiming straight for it because gates have such huge hitboxes. So really when it comes to gates a gate can be anywhere from 75km-125km away and you will land on 0km.

Yea... I think I made my point but I can do more if you guys want :)

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7020 - 2013-10-30 19:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Warbird
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Though the runiation of the armour Marauders in Incursions with these changes is well-documented, it will be quite interesting to see how CCP deals with the cries out outrage when this ship class nerf hits all the mission-runners who don't read the forums.

Frankly, given CCP's hatred of its own high sec customer base, not much will happen. and they will ignore the inevitable many many post Nov 19th threads complaining how the ship class was wrecked.

And the vast majority of people still have not clued in how badly nerfed all BS based income is with the warp speed nerf.


Good thing then they will be no 'cries of outrage' as any normal person could trivially thrown it into any l4 and come out unscathed.

Warp speed nerf? In hisec? I mean, really now?

e: Poster above, why did you say you missed the bounty? I understand about the implant but you get the bounty after you kill her in the final room, right? Or am I being stupid today...

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.