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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6901 - 2013-10-29 03:42:56 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
CCP has already stated that existing bs class missile bonuses will not effect rhmls, and no be would be getting a bonus to rhmls.

My assumption here is that they're balanced with damage high enough to make a difference without bonuses.
However, we won't be getting bs class dps out of them, and I'm wondering about range, cause without range bonuses, they'll be fairly useless....

We're still getting damage and rate-of-fire, are we not? (just not explosion radius, explosion velocity or missile velocity) Range is actually fairly surprising. 65km base and almost 100km if you run hydraulic rigs. They're gonna be cruiser tack drivers.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6902 - 2013-10-29 05:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Ok..
So, I just got finished running angel extravaganza.

I was using a cruise Golem with 1015 dps out to max target range (including CM-605 and RL-1005).


It took me within 1 minute of an hour to clear every room, including the bonus room.
That was from undock to dock, and the mission was 1 jump away.
I never had to warp out.
I was using my pith x-type XL booster, pulsing as needed, 2 x T2 invulns, and a t1 em rig.

That's probably the fastest I've ever been able to clear that mission, and the least amount of tanking issues.

In the bonus room, I was starting to get a little freaked, cause I was running out of cap.
However, I remembered I had MJD, so I finished up bastion cycle, MJD'd out, and my cap started building right back up.


1 hr is a pretty good clear time for angel's extravaganza.....
Do that without having to warp out in a navy or pirate.
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.
zbaaca
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#6903 - 2013-10-29 05:20:34 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.
Big smileBig smile
HAML tengu with 2x t2 invuls and em hard(not even exp) that has about 300 angel tank does ganza about 30-35 min with bonus room. no problem at all. most dangerous thing is 4 tacklers there. so means , u doing something wrong

but back to subj. without bonus RHML will be useless on golem.

Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn ♡♡♡

Shantetha
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6904 - 2013-10-29 05:38:52 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Ok..
So, I just got finished running angel extravaganza.

I was using a cruise Golem with 1015 dps out to max target range (including CM-605 and RL-1005).


It took me within 1 minute of an hour to clear every room, including the bonus room.
That was from undock to dock, and the mission was 1 jump away.
I never had to warp out.
I was using my pith x-type XL booster, pulsing as needed, 2 x T2 invulns, and a t1 em rig.

That's probably the fastest I've ever been able to clear that mission, and the least amount of tanking issues.

In the bonus room, I was starting to get a little freaked, cause I was running out of cap.
However, I remembered I had MJD, so I finished up bastion cycle, MJD'd out, and my cap started building right back up.


1 hr is a pretty good clear time for angel's extravaganza.....
Do that without having to warp out in a navy or pirate.
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.

buddy of mine does it in a vargur on TQ in ~40 min, i don't remember if he has it down below that yet.
pretty sure he doesn't warp out at all even in the bonus room.

i have been using an mjd cruise/sentry Armageddon to do it at around 55 min
Yelizaveta
Care-Bear Central
Care-Free Coalition
#6905 - 2013-10-29 05:48:35 UTC
I don't understand what all the fuss is about.


The fact of the matter is a marauder outside of bastion is nearly identical the the current marauder setup, with an added bonus to tracking (in the case of the Kronos). Some of them are getting a small reduction in total HP, but most of them are getting more HP. A tiny reduction in capacitor or capacitor recharge is barely noticeable, and lowered max velocity doesn't mean ****.


Marauders were designed from the get go to be long range gunships. I understand that the Vargur originally couldn't fit a full rack of Artillary but now it can.

Simply put, if you fly the ship the way it was intended to be flown, the changes to the base hulls with the use of bastion are nothing but positive. A bonus to tank, a bonus to range, immunity to those pesky Serpentis damps and Angel jams? Tell me how this is a bad thing.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6906 - 2013-10-29 06:04:10 UTC
It has immunity to ewar(which is a huge ***** if you are in guri/serp space) and 100% bonus to tank so you can fit for more dps/tracking/range. I don't get how you can ***** and moan about anything at all.

I ran the ships on SiSi and they definitely made PvE bearable. The highest tick I got was 14mil while I was in a Golem doing a Serp Assault.

You guys whine all you want but I hope CCP ignores you and lets me run my Vargur/Kronos/Golem with awesome bonuses and crappy animations.

CCP, when you do find time, please revamp the animations.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#6907 - 2013-10-29 06:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
Shantetha wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Ok..
So, I just got finished running angel extravaganza.

I was using a cruise Golem with 1015 dps out to max target range (including CM-605 and RL-1005).


It took me within 1 minute of an hour to clear every room, including the bonus room.
That was from undock to dock, and the mission was 1 jump away.
I never had to warp out.
I was using my pith x-type XL booster, pulsing as needed, 2 x T2 invulns, and a t1 em rig.

That's probably the fastest I've ever been able to clear that mission, and the least amount of tanking issues.

In the bonus room, I was starting to get a little freaked, cause I was running out of cap.
However, I remembered I had MJD, so I finished up bastion cycle, MJD'd out, and my cap started building right back up.


1 hr is a pretty good clear time for angel's extravaganza.....
Do that without having to warp out in a navy or pirate.
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.

buddy of mine does it in a vargur on TQ in ~40 min, i don't remember if he has it down below that yet.
pretty sure he doesn't warp out at all even in the bonus room.


i have been using an mjd cruise/sentry Armageddon to do it at around 55 min


I've run that in about 45 in a CNR. Virtually same tank fit as my Golem, with an extra SBA and swap out the med booster for a Gist-X x-large to make up for the lack of the shield boost bonus (have to drop the ab for the booster, but not bad mission without it).

Edit: I don't shoot the guns in room 3 and only the cruise guns (3 of them) in bonus

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#6908 - 2013-10-29 06:22:48 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

...
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.


Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6909 - 2013-10-29 07:14:43 UTC
i noticed today the sisi golem and TQ golem got the same amount of cap and recharge time. I guess they unnerfed the cap ?

Doug Mackenz
Ambivalence Co-operative
#6910 - 2013-10-29 07:18:55 UTC
Just loaded up Singularity to check out the Bastion stuff for the Marauders..... and the Vargur is semi transparent???
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#6911 - 2013-10-29 07:44:42 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
And my god i wanted to like the new marauder, i really did, i want to fly them.,...theres just no situation where it would be better to use these marauders over a small gang of different ships. (as i dont solo )


A small gang of ships is better than a single T2 Battleship... My god, who would have thought. Shocked

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6912 - 2013-10-29 07:45:08 UTC
Doug Mackenz wrote:
Just loaded up Singularity to check out the Bastion stuff for the Marauders..... and the Vargur is semi transparent???

Is that like a semi-permanent cloak? Roll

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6913 - 2013-10-29 07:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
SOL Ranger wrote:
Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.

Implying those things were ever relevant in missions. Except maybe fittings, but those are developed for a long time already.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6914 - 2013-10-29 09:10:41 UTC
SOL Ranger wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

...
I don't know a single ship that wouldn't have problems with the bonus room, and bastion Golem took it like a champ without even using cap boosters.


Translation:
Bastion is so utterly overpowered it trivializes missions to the point where piloting skills, fitting, effort and consequences in battle mean nothing.



and how is that different than now?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Tsukinosuke
Id Est
RAZOR Alliance
#6915 - 2013-10-29 10:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukinosuke
Jake Warbird wrote:

You guys whine all you want but I hope CCP ignores you and lets me run my Vargur/Kronos/Golem with awesome bonuses and crappy animations.


i too like some of improvements, i'd rather CCP granted Vargur an "OPTIMAL and FALLOFF" bonus.. even with this bonus it will be my last choice btw.. golem would be No.1 because of the best ammo you can choose for missions, both paladin/kronos are good incursions and w-life.. autocannon's dps on fitting panel is ok, but practical dps? it is good only with nano ships, imho..

at the moment, the thing i wonder about is the final requirements (skill and fuel) of bastion module..

and no offense but i havent met any game publisher who cares about the game and its players sake yet.. that is why i deal sceptically..

anti-antagonist "not a friend of enemy of antagonist"
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#6916 - 2013-10-29 10:07:09 UTC
Tsukinosuke wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:

You guys whine all you want but I hope CCP ignores you and lets me run my Vargur/Kronos/Golem with awesome bonuses and crappy animations.


i too like some of improvements, i'd rather CCP granted Vargur an "OPTIMAL and FALLOFF" bonus.. even with this bonus it will be my last choice btw.. golem would be top cos of best ammo you can choose for missions, both paladin/kronos are good incursions and w-life.. autocannons dps on fitting screen is ok, but practical dps? it is good only with nano ships, imho..

the thing is i wonder about the final requirements (skill and fuel) of bastion module..

and no offense but i havent met any game publisher who cares about the game and its players sake.. thats why i deal sceptically..



It would be nice to know if High Energy Physics IV is the skill to train for Bastion, as for fuel, I don't think they will implement that for the Bastion module.
Jill Antaris
Jill's Open Incursion Corp
#6917 - 2013-10-29 10:57:05 UTC
Yelizaveta wrote:
I don't understand what all the fuss is about.


The fact of the matter is a marauder outside of bastion is nearly identical the the current marauder setup, with an added bonus to tracking (in the case of the Kronos). Some of them are getting a small reduction in total HP, but most of them are getting more HP. A tiny reduction in capacitor or capacitor recharge is barely noticeable, and lowered max velocity doesn't mean ****.


Except of the speed nerf, drone band wide nerf and the removal of the web bonuses. You guys wouldn't even have the drone bay and partial speed fixes on the hulls without the feedback of the people that actually fly marauders. And they are still overall worse compared to the current marauders, for people that actually use them without overtaking them or for Incs/WH, when you relay on RR.

Yelizaveta wrote:
Marauders were designed from the get go to be long range gunships. I understand that the Vargur originally couldn't fit a full rack of Artillary but now it can.


Btw the golem was designed around torpedoes, the only reason people fit CMs on it is because apparently torpedoes are fine, even if you use another weapon system on a dedicated torpedo platform. Would you be so kind to quote me a dev that stated they are build around long range? Because I was actually there when they introduced them so many years ago and can't remember it.

Yelizaveta wrote:
Simply put, if you fly the ship the way it was intended to be flown, the changes to the base hulls with the use of bastion are nothing but positive. A bonus to tank, a bonus to range, immunity to those pesky Serpentis damps and Angel jams? Tell me how this is a bad thing.


Strange, because I fly marauders since years and hate the changes, because they completely ignore the real problems of marauders(speed, range, application on the top golem, rail/sentry Kronos dps and a useful niche for the Vargur) in favour of a active tank that only people need that consistently ignore all the mechanics of the content(with a hand full of exceptions).

I would have preferred to see the new concept as a new ship class, instead changing a existent one or at least giving marauder pilots the opportunity to still fly the ship they used since years instead being forced to switch hulls, if they don't have real use for bastion and mjd.

Btw Angels don't jam they paint.
marVLs
#6918 - 2013-10-29 11:16:56 UTC
There are still two major problems:

1. Vargur suck on AC's in sniping role (well new marauders are designed to have long ranges on short range weapons), and don't get me started with those arty fits lol go ahead fit it that way and be a lot less efficient. And it lacks one med slot or something, even golem can easily fit dual prop

2. Torps on Golem, no one will use them for time/isk effi when we have cruise missiles (someone here noted it's strange that torps have worse stats in aspects of damage applicaton, and smaller clip size compared to long range weapons)
zbaaca
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#6919 - 2013-10-29 11:21:17 UTC
marVLs wrote:
There are still two major problems:

1. Vargur suck on AC's in sniping role (well new marauders are designed to have long ranges on short range weapons), and don't get me started with those arty fits lol go ahead fit it that way and be a lot less efficient. And it lacks one med slot or something, even golem can easily fit dual prop

2. Torps on Golem, no one will use them for time/isk effi when we have cruise missiles (someone here noted it's strange that torps have worse stats in aspects of damage applicaton, and smaller clip size compared to long range weapons)

i agree with 2nd argument.
but 1st one... why should you snipe with close range weapon and selectable damage profile ?

Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn ♡♡♡

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6920 - 2013-10-29 11:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
I'm not sure you should necessarily snipe with ACs, but the range increase in Bastion is kind of silly on the Vargur. You get a little bit of extra optimal and loads of extra falloff which doesn't really translate well into any kind of improved damage application. It would be better if the Vargur had a bit more optimal bonus and a bit less falloff.

It would also be lovely if the Bastion module also gave a Golem w/ T1 torps more than ~10km of range. I still feel that Bastioned T1 torps reaching out to ~45 or 50km with both range skills at 5 isn't unreasonable.

However, it appears that CCP feels the Vargur and the Golem are just fine because "the Kronos gets amazing range with Null".