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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#6781 - 2013-10-26 09:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You mean you don't fit a cap booster in PvE?
You really should, they're awesome.

What on earth possibly for?


Neut counter, high DPS missions (especially running epic arcs, or using Bastion+Blasters+MJD to jump into everything and start firing at point blank optimal) where you need to run a prolonged repper rather than burst cycles, and any time you use a MWD to burn to an accel gate sub 60km off.

If you're in a Kronos, you'll cap out without it. 6x Navy 800 in the booster and another 6 in the bay will last you a long time as a solid insurance policy. I wouldn't consider going without it now. It's not always needed, but when you have need of it, you're glad it's there.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6782 - 2013-10-26 09:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
biggest grudge i have with toprs golem right now are npc orbiting at 50 Evil with max range skills + 5% implant and missle flight time rig ( because speed rig will get peanalized ) t1 missles get around 48 km range - could use 2 range rigs but with the addition of the bastion i was hoping to exchange the range rigs to appli rigs so that torpedo damage wont be so bad
how about a 30/30 bonus on bastion Twisted 53km t1 torp range souds good doesnt it with 2 apli rigs
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6783 - 2013-10-26 09:57:34 UTC
marVLs wrote:
Fozzie what about those not balanced ranges on marauders?
We have a goal to make them ships that are using short range weapons on long ranges, imo cool but only Paladin work here perfectly, it's very good balanced so pulses and tachyons have their usage Cool

I suggest changing bastion range bonus to: non stacking 20% optimal, 40% falloff

Thanks to that Vargur and Kronos will be closer to good balanced Paladin, because now they'r bad in that aspect (especially Vargur).

And we got Golem, as i suggested earlier change 10% velo bonus for cruise and torps for 20% velo bonus for torps only with non stacking 25% bastion velocity bonus.

Cruises don't need any buff on hull or bastion, they're veeeery good without them, but torps need badly at least that.
Another thing is changing TP bonus for exp radius bonus.
Firstly rest of marauders don't have ewar bonuses, secondly this will remove that baad TP juggling, micromanagement hell, and if anyone want they can still fit TP that won't stack its bonuses with that 25% exp radius reduction.


You dont want to give the kronos any more range.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#6784 - 2013-10-26 10:11:18 UTC
Okay, I relented and had set up a SiSi client. I only tried the Kronos running L4 missions and here are my first observations.

No. 1: if you prepare the ship to not require the bastion module, you will not need to use the bastion module.

Yes, it's a tautology but think about it for a while. The issue is that if you are trying to fly a marauder (a Kronos in this particular case) the old way, the bastion will change nothing. Since you can already tank the worst, extra tank is redundant. Since range bonus stacks with already present modules, the range gain is negligible (optimal+falloff on blasters with Null: 65 vs 71 km against 2xTC+1xTE).

Let me take on this in two separate ways:

BASTTIONLESS KRONOS

Here, I love the falloff and MJD bonuses. Each other separately and both at the same time.

I learned not to rely on web bonus so I paid it farewell without a hint of regret. Falloff instead increases my blasters' operational range to mentioned 65km and rails' to whatever reasonable locking distance. Which in consequence means that with blaster fit I have bigger margin of range (less chasing, less dps lost to being too far) and with rails I can comfortable be sniping while retaining high dps. With MJD added I can keep short or long distance as desired. That said, I have feeling that AB may be handy at times to cover short distances while not shooting.

BASTIONFUL KRONOS

Here I can agree with some people saying that this is the solution looking for a problem. But in a good sense.

I admit I didn't try it very hard, yet, and there are some unexplored possibilities. Still I feel the module has potential. I'm going to try fittings with lighter tank and less range enhancers to take better advantage from being deployed. Though I'm not too sure what to do with freed slots, what could play along with tank+spank simplemindedness of mission running.
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#6785 - 2013-10-26 12:37:40 UTC
@CCP

Any chance of the Vargur/Paladin gaining some unbonused missile hardpoints?
I'm thinking 3, yeah, no, make that 4 please. Big smile

Something to mix things up a bit and grant some additional options, such that the ships have more different properties.
Vargur: 4 missile hardpoints.
Paladin: 2 missile hardpoints + 25 bandwidth.
Kronos: 50 bandwidth.
Golem: 4 turret hardpoints.

Yes, I planned flying my AC Vargur with 4xRHML instead of the Bastion ^^

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6786 - 2013-10-26 14:06:04 UTC
Ok, checking torp range on test.


I have range skills for missiles maxed out.



2 x Hydraulic bay thruster II
Non-Bastion
T1 - 42km
Navy - 42km
Rage - 35km
Javelin - 64km

Bastion
T1 - 49km
Navy - 49km
Rage - 41km
Javelin - 74km

2 x Rocket Fuel cache partition II
Non-Bastion
T1 - 42km
Navy - 42km
Rage - 35km
Javelin - 64km

Bastion
T1 - 53km
Navy - 53km
Rage - 44km
Javelin - 80km

1 x Each t2
Non-Bastion
T1 - 43km
Navy - 43km
Rage - 36km
Javelin - 65km

Bastion
T1 - 53km
Navy - 53km
Rage - 44km
Javelin - 80km


1 x Hydro II
Non-Bastion
T1 - 36km
Navy - 36km
Rage - 30km
Javelin - 54km

Bastion
T1 - 44km
Navy - 44km
Rage - 37km
Javelin - 66km


1 x Rocket II
Non-Bastion
T1 - 36km
Navy - 36km
Rage - 30km
Javelin - 54km

Bastion
T1 - 45km
Navy - 45km
Rage - 37km
Javelin - 68km


No Range rigs
Non-Bastion
T1 - 30km
Navy - 30km
Rage - 25km
Javelin - 45km

Bastion
T1 - 37km
Navy - 37km
Rage - 31km
Javelin - 56km


So, if you wish, you can get 80km with one of each, or 74km with speed. Granted, this is on paper.

If you don't want that much range, you can fit 1 of either and get speed at 66km, or 2km more range...

66km is respectable, while 80km is freaking awesome for torps.... Hell, 74km with speed ain't no joke either.


Remember, this is range skills at 5 with no range implants
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6787 - 2013-10-26 14:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
problem with 2 range rigs is the damage application Ugh with 3 tps you still will do cruise damage maybe slightly more
with bastion there is a huge potential where a 2 appli rig torpedo golem would be possible but we need some more range on torps while in bastion Twisted making the golem once again into the torpedo king Pirate ofc we could forget all that blah blah about bonus range if we could do selectable range jumps with mjd - my 2 ideas on how to make torpedo golem a better experience Cool
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6788 - 2013-10-26 15:41:40 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
problem with 2 range rigs is the damage application Ugh with 3 tps you still will do cruise damage maybe slightly more
with bastion there is a huge potential where a 2 appli rig torpedo golem would be possible but we need some more range on torps while in bastion Twisted making the golem once again into the torpedo king Pirate ofc we could forget all that blah blah about bonus range if we could do selectable range jumps with mjd - my 2 ideas on how to make torpedo golem a better experience Cool


1 t2 range rig with bastion is as much, or more than what they provide on live with 2 t2 range rigs.

Also, those are not stats that I factored by hand.
Those are in test server, actually fitted, actually using each type of ammo, and actually using bastion....

But like I said, 1 t2 range rig with bastion is slightly more than what it is on live with 2 t2 range rigs.

So, if you're happy with that range (which is good enough for any lvl 4 target orbit range), then you'll be able to exchange a range rig for rigor.

If you like the buffed range of 2 x t2, then use it.. You're having to fit less tank, so you could very well fit that 3rd TP.
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6789 - 2013-10-26 16:04:23 UTC
maybe give torps more ammo capacity or shorten reload time
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6790 - 2013-10-26 16:13:48 UTC
Mer88 wrote:
maybe give torps more ammo capacity or shorten reload time


I once had the idea to wrap the reload time into the RoF and remove torps from having to reload.

I mean, look at it.

Torps fired from a sub/ship have to be reloaded after every shot.
While most other types of missiles are fired in volleys.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#6791 - 2013-10-26 16:28:46 UTC
Change the Golem back to the Raven hull, it just so much better. Also make the bastion mode look more nature when the Golem does it, like all the other Marauders. And fix ALL missile battleship bonues so they have RHMLs in there too, like all missile cruisers do with RLMs.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6792 - 2013-10-26 16:32:27 UTC
but with torps your switching ammo rather often because of the lowish range on those - i see the golem as a specialized torpedo ship with great projection and aplication on them while the cruise version is just the cherry on top
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6793 - 2013-10-26 16:47:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
We arnt even talking about cap injectors, XL ASB's and Count how many navy 400's you can put in Your hold.. :P



still they end.... and still marauders cannot move.. and therefore cannot track any damm single AB cruiser.


Blasters on my kronos will start hitting said ab curse from 100km and will track it down to 10km before hitting issues. It will be dead or in warp before it can evern get into range. If they hit me at close range then the curse will empty its hold of boosters long before I do and if it gets under my guns it has to deal with the smartbombs.

Against small ships these ships are are just down right deadly.



really again.. I dare you to TRY! Youa re talkign with someont hat lives from killin g peopel that think that what they know in PVE applies to PVP

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#6794 - 2013-10-26 17:04:48 UTC
Why don't you two take a Kronos and a Curse and fight it out on SiSi.

That said, my money's on Baltec.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6795 - 2013-10-26 17:36:26 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Kagura Nikon wrote:



really again.. I dare you to TRY! Youa re talkign with someont hat lives from killin g peopel that think that what they know in PVE applies to PVP


And I am the guy who flies Megathrons in ways most think impossible.

With the correct use of a cap booster the kronos will manage a pilgrim and due to having getting on for 1000 m3 more cargo space. The golem fairs even better with the new missile launchers and an asb.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#6796 - 2013-10-26 17:46:40 UTC
OK, it's probably been posted but this is more than a threadnaught so here goes:

Golem, Paladin and Kronos all have this electrified proton blue shimmer hull parts when activating Bastion mode...where is it on the Vargur? All the poor Vargur has is dull rust plates than fan out...keep it in line and give the Minnie some flashy love perhaps?

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6797 - 2013-10-26 17:46:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:



really again.. I dare you to TRY! Youa re talkign with someont hat lives from killin g peopel that think that what they know in PVE applies to PVP


And I am the guy who flies Megathrons in ways most think impossible.

Sideways and backwards.Cool
Tavarus Excavar
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#6798 - 2013-10-26 17:48:13 UTC
alright i can see gettign rid of the heavy drones. But why not leave the ability to use medium drones? being able to switch between light and mediums is something i think gives the maruader a bit of versitility.


the bastion module i do not think is very useful for missiles. Extended range? and band aiding torpedo range and delayed damage? I think an rof bonus would work better since raw damage bonus would not make a lot of sense.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6799 - 2013-10-26 18:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
chaosgrimm wrote:

Sideways and backwards.Cool


This one time when I was cynoing in a few titans one of them bounced and hit me into a warpgate which then catapulted me into an archon backwards. Our cap pilots thought I was trying to bump it away because there is no way a Mega would be in a tengu fleet let alone be the cyno ship. So there I was, bouncing around sideways in the middle of a cap fleet with DBRB trying to explain that the situation really was as mad as it seemed.

And then we burned Delve, but that is a tale for another time.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6800 - 2013-10-26 18:14:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:

Sideways and backwards.Cool


This one time when I was cynoing in a few titans one of them bounced and hit me into a warpgate which then catapulted me into an archon backwards. Our cap pilots thought I was trying to bump it away because there is no way a Mega would be in a tengu fleet let alone be the cyno ship. So there I was, bouncing around sideways in the middle of a cap fleet with DBRB trying to explain that the situation really was as mad as it seemed.

And then we burned Delve, but that is a tale for another time.

Haha that's great +1 xD