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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6741 - 2013-10-25 19:08:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
Welome to Maurauder Online, where we will just tank you into oblivion Lol



try that when a curse finds you.....


Cap boosters are cool.



and eventually end.. contrary to the patiene of the curse pilot ;) Also a curse can easily, really easily overhelm a large cap injector.


These ships have the biggest cargo holds in the battleship class and to be frank, every battleships faces the same issues when hit with bonused neuts.




Battleships can MOVE! They are not sitting and planting a KILL me!! Bring reinforcements and kill me plate in front of them!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6742 - 2013-10-25 19:18:59 UTC
Can we maybe... I dunno... get back to discussing Marauders?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#6743 - 2013-10-25 19:27:28 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Can we maybe... I dunno... get back to discussing Marauders?


Sure man!

Golem, love it, looks good, eats lvl 4's can even do ok in pvp on Sisi.

Me happy.
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#6744 - 2013-10-25 19:30:58 UTC
tested torpedo golem and its kinda nice now thx to bastion i can finaly use a rigor instead of missle speed rig - still the dps increase isnt that great over cruise missles
come ccp give the torpedo golem some love a additional 25% flight time bonus to bastion that would finaly enable some 40km+ rage torpedo ranges Twisted with damage appli rigs Twisted
marVLs
#6745 - 2013-10-25 19:43:24 UTC
I will rather change Golem 10% velo bonus for torps and cruises to 20% torps only bonus.

Cruise missiles don't need more speed, they're superior to torps even without it, but that change will give torp golem some love, 3,5km rage torps velo (with bastion and fuel rigs so range don't get penalized) and 6,3km javs velo is really pain in the... on missions. Not only because of wasted salvos but also that micromanagement hell, You need to salvage, use TP's and count salvos...


And what about TP bonus, is it going to stay or being changed for explosion radius bonus? (im voting for expl bonus)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#6746 - 2013-10-25 19:44:29 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
tested torpedo golem and its kinda nice now thx to bastion i can finaly use a rigor instead of missle speed rig - still the dps increase isnt that great over cruise missles
come ccp give the torpedo golem some love a additional 25% flight time bonus to bastion that would finaly enable some 40km+ rage torpedo ranges Twisted with damage appli rigs Twisted


you have javelins for that .. granted javelins need a slight dps buff so they are better than furies

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6747 - 2013-10-25 20:02:18 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Vinyl 41 wrote:
tested torpedo golem and its kinda nice now thx to bastion i can finaly use a rigor instead of missle speed rig - still the dps increase isnt that great over cruise missles
come ccp give the torpedo golem some love a additional 25% flight time bonus to bastion that would finaly enable some 40km+ rage torpedo ranges Twisted with damage appli rigs Twisted


you have javelins for that .. granted javelins need a slight dps buff so they are better than furies


Javs would need a significant dps buff to out damage furies.

With my skills, 4 bcu t2, and 2 5% implants (rof, and cruise damage) i'm getting 1015 dps with fury.
Last time I checked javs were only like 800dps or so at less than half the range.

I've always wondered which is messed up.
Should rage torps be the long range ammo like fury cruise, or should fury cruise be the short range ammo like rage torp?

Missiles are just weird when it comes to ranges.
I just find it weird how long range missiles get more damage the further you go...

Also, should the exp radius/velocity be swapped between long and short range missiles?
I mean, that's our version of tracking, and don't short range weapons typically have better tracking?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6748 - 2013-10-25 20:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
Golem, love it, looks good, eats lvl 4's can even do ok in pvp on Sisi.
Me happy.

I've warmed up to it since they changed the base color. Now to get those black accents re-added back in... If they changed the orange to light grey stripes, man - I'd be all over it. Are you running cruise or the new RHMLs?

Joe Risalo wrote:
Missiles are just weird when it comes to ranges.
I just find it weird how long range missiles get more damage the further you go...

Also, should the exp radius/velocity be swapped between long and short range missiles?
I mean, that's our version of tracking, and don't short range weapons typically have better tracking?

Sacrilege!!


marVLs wrote:
I will rather change Golem 10% velo bonus for torps and cruises to 20% torps only bonus.

(cough) ... RHMLs ... (cough)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#6749 - 2013-10-25 20:59:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
its more like 960 Fury to 910 Javelins but javelins track better than furies so it ends up fairly similar dps i would expect
with 3 bcu's on a raven anyway

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6750 - 2013-10-25 21:29:45 UTC
Sorry to re-visit this, but just to confirm: it's a 137.5% shield boost bonus with Marauders-V and Bastion on the Golem, correct? I think with T2 rigors, the new RHMLs and Bastion you'll have a decent setup for mission running (I'm guessing probably a range of around 75km with max skills). Damage application is going to be fairly decent with a sub-75m explosion radius (plus the explosion velocity bonus), which will probably mitigate the 20% DPS somewhat. Paper DPS is often radically different than real-world applied DPS.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6751 - 2013-10-25 21:37:05 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sorry to re-visit this, but just to confirm: it's a 137.5% shield boost bonus with Marauders-V and Bastion on the Golem, correct? I think with T2 rigors, the new RHMLs and Bastion you'll have a decent setup for mission running (I'm guessing probably a range of around 75km with max skills). Damage application is going to be fairly decent with a sub-75m explosion radius (plus the explosion velocity bonus), which will probably mitigate the 20% DPS somewhat. Paper DPS is often radically different than real-world applied DPS.

+175% I believe
(100% base + 37.5%)*2 = 275% if I've got the eve math right.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6752 - 2013-10-25 21:40:07 UTC
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Can we maybe... I dunno... get back to discussing Marauders?


Sure man!

Golem, love it, looks good, eats lvl 4's can even do ok in pvp on Sisi.

Me happy.


Vargur: thumbs down for lvl 4s due to lack of dmg, mobility, and bastion projection / stacking penalties. Artys kinda suck compared to ACs in pve.

Planning on maxing out and using my mach as my primary mission ship if these are the final changes, esp since other ships can loot now. hope the mach's nerf will be gentle + justify gallente bs 5 xD.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6753 - 2013-10-25 22:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
chaosgrimm wrote:
Planning on maxing out and using my mach as my primary mission ship if these are the final changes, esp since other ships can loot now. hope the mach's nerf will be gentle + justify gallente bs 5 xD.

Until it gets nerfed... See, that's the problem: we all know the other decent L4 missioning ships (Tengu, Mach, etc.) are next on the chopping block - so it makes it really frustrating since any skill-specific training could end up a dead end.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
marVLs
#6754 - 2013-10-25 22:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I think with T2 rigors, the new RHMLs and Bastion you'll have a decent setup for mission running (I'm guessing probably a range of around 75km with max skills). Damage application is going to be fairly decent with a sub-75m explosion radius (plus the explosion velocity bonus), which will probably mitigate the 20% DPS somewhat. Paper DPS is often radically different than real-world applied DPS.


Well You'r wrong on RHML.

Their Fury range would be only 66,5km with 2xT2 Bay Thrusters and 6% velo implant (9km missile velo)

Compared to faction cruise missiles: they are slower (~1km), have less DPS ( ~50DPS), and have bigger explosion radius (~20m ,because You can fit rigors on Cruise setup instead of range rigs). On top of that You have DRONES to kill small stuff... and Cruise Furys (another +200DPS) combined with TP bonus etc etc ...

Overall: nope RHML are not for lvl4.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6755 - 2013-10-25 22:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
marVLs wrote:
Well You'r wrong on RHML.
Their Fury range would be only 66,5km with 2xT2 Bay Thrusters and 6% velo implant (9km missile velo)

Compared to faction cruise missiles: they are slower (~1km), have less DPS ( ~50DPS), and have bigger explosion radius (~20m ,because You can fit rigors on Cruise setup instead of range rigs). On top of that You have DRONES to kill small stuff... and Cruise Furys (another +200DPS) combined with TP bonus etc etc ...

Overall: nope RHML are not for lvl4.

I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong, but you're wrong...

First, with V skills and no implants, the base range is 62.9km. This increases to 88.6km with two T2 hydraulic rigs. 105m explosion radius and 121.5m/sec explosion velocity. With Bastion I imagine even with stacking penalties this would push it out past 100km (someone please feel free to confirm).

Second, it's not just about raw DPS - it's about damage application. There's a finite degree to the amount you can micromanage optimal damage, so consider this: let's say you have a target that only requires two volleys of heavy missiles to destroy. You could fire two volleys of cruise missiles @ 16 seconds for full (wasted) DPS, or two volleys of heavy missiles @ about 10 seconds for 80% (but 100% utilized) DPS. The end result is the same, regardless of cruise having more DPS. And the heavier missiles were cheaper and you can get an extra volley out to a new target in the same timeframe.

Would I run RHMLs exclusively? Probably not. But a 50-50 mix of RHMLs and cruise missiles is a winning combination.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#6756 - 2013-10-25 23:16:53 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Since I still didn't get a answer on it yet, how likely it is to just keep the old marauders ingame and make them a 2. hull type that uses the marauder skills? I don't really care if you actually fix them or not.

- the old marauders are not game breaking or created any kind of issue in the game during her 6 years
- in many scenarios they perform better than the new ones
- in certain scenarios(like RR gang or Incs) bastion, active tanking and mjd provide nothing
- people get her new toy that they can sell again after 3 months when the shiny is gone and other people can still be happy with the marauders they use since years
- more choice to the player and choice is good in my opinion
- a opportunity to actually fix the old marauders in a way where they provide a very good alternative to pirate BS hulls(by improving the RR focus, adding utility and giving them unique features like posted a couple of times so far)



Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6757 - 2013-10-25 23:52:28 UTC
I'd wager the answer is highly unlikely.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#6758 - 2013-10-26 00:32:18 UTC
Tsukinosuke wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:
Welome to Maurauder Online, where we will just tank you into oblivion Lol



try that when a curse finds you.....


Cap boosters are cool.


see? your mind is working only for PVP view, what ppl are talking about above either you dont read or just ignore cos of it is not about PVP.. wildcard slots are for only support in PVE, like TC, TP, SeBo etc..

really still not sure why are you here? you dont add anything for marauder's sake or i missed it. im not sure there is a position in goons rank for forum-filler (i didnt want use trolling atm)


You mean you don't fit a cap booster in PvE?

You really should, they're awesome.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6759 - 2013-10-26 00:44:44 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You mean you don't fit a cap booster in PvE?
You really should, they're awesome.

What on earth possibly for?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6760 - 2013-10-26 00:48:17 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You mean you don't fit a cap booster in PvE?
You really should, they're awesome.

What on earth possibly for?


I do... though, with bastion, I haven't had to use it... I know my luck though, and once I drop it is when I'll need it.

Oh, and I use a pith x XL shield booster.. That's why...