Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I lol'd just a bit at this. Like this is really some shocking conclusion about how PvP players are not complaining about a new toy being added to their toybox with no strings attached, while some PvE players who have already invested in these hulls are complaining because a PvE ship was removed from their toybox?


Concerning PvE performance, there are certain advantages you currently get in using marauders over pirates. Ultimately from the PvE perspective, dmg / speed / "fill in the blank stat", is secondary compared to isk per hour.

For example, a lvl 4 mission runner in a mach is cant loot very well compared to the vargur and doesnt run faction ammo very cost efficiently (my paper estimates show a net loss compared to faster completion times and reduced ammo usage from increased dmg per shot). The Vargur makes a clear net gain by running RF ammo. Concerning gun dmg, vargur with RF can deal more raw gun dmg than a mach using t1 ammo. Granted the mach still gets better drone dmg + better clear time, but you dont really need to loot all that much per hour to make up the difference + you can play the indy side with the mats gained to make additional profits on what you've looted.

Now CCP gives other BS's the ability to loot, which not only essentially nerfs that existing advantage, but nerfs the indy gains as well. Also, by making these excel at long ranges, they continue to put a damper on the looting benefit these ships currently hold. On top of this, they further widened the dmg gap between marauders an other battleships.



So let me get this straight and i know pirates are up for a rebalance so for the sake of argument, let's say a large fleet of navy faction ships appears... At this point, you say you wouldnt bring marauders, so your only correct answer on the BS level assuming number of players are equal, is to bring more navy faction ships. If they were a large group of pirate ships, your only answer is bring more pirate ships.

Alternatively, the PvE side of things has some balance at this point. TQ marauders have their uses in incursions and lvl 4s. Pirates have their uses in both as well. Much of this is going to go away for "some PVP viability, for solo and small gangs"...although i might reword: limited PvP viability in some small gangs... No thanks CCP.

For the sake of argument.

T2 hulls are above navy hulls (in general), but below pirate hulls, since they're specialized in an area (marauding, looting).

I'm ok with my extremely long SP investment - over 2 months for the Vargur, after I had my level 5 battleship, and over 4 months to get a proper Tachyon Paladin working . It took me long to get these ships, and have they been worth it? To some extent. However, I have to argue, that these ships should be somewhat more powerful than their T1 counterparts. See the HAC vs T1 cruiser variants. HACs are more expensive, but they have better damage, better tank, better damage application.

Now, as for battleships, having that raw increase would be way too much. Marauders have better tanks and better damage projection, but their damage should at the very least be equal to that of the T1 counterpart,their raw damage, guns/launchers and drones, ideally ever-so-slightly improved raw damage to keep in line with other T2s, but under their Pirate Faction comparable variant.

However, my biggest gripe, other than the damage (which the Vargur, and most Minmatar ships actually suffer), is that all Marauders are shoehorned into the same role, racial-roles and advantages be forgotten (be damned actually). All I want is for my Vargur to feel like a matari ship, actually truly powerful, or like the description says:

Yet ironically the Vargur is the weakest of the bunch, with the smallest tank, and also the furthest form it's description.

good point..





why do you not focus on Black Ops "use to pVp" instead of marauders (used to be PvE oriented) ?!? for example make them "bastion"ed so both pVp and PvE community may be happy imho..

More range, better cap, immunity to ewar, 3-4 spare high slots to play with, high resists and the biggest active tank outside of capital ships.

I admit to not being a fan of large projectiles.

'Dear CCP,

Can you please look into the logic of 1400s? We're shooting small cars at people, sure. But 3500s are shooting buses at people, and even then, 3500s reload faster than our car-shooting gun. At least match the cycle times so that it makes more sense, which would leave alpha as it iss, but allow to match artilleries to beams in paper DPS. Keep our terrible tracking...I can live with that to keep it "balanced"/'

^^ Truth 1400mm need faster ROF(few seconds) to up the truly bad dps so they can become usable in more than blobbing and shooting ships on AP.

So that arty start being viable for rest of pvp situations and all possible pve that is in this game hell i would accept cap usage on them(slowish ROF should offset that).

Vargur as lowest dps lowest range boost and static in bastion rly is sad story to the point that if you do bastion you are doing it wrong.

imo.

4 faction gyros and t2 burst rig...it is truly shame it cant brake 1000(900 even) dps mark.

Also from years running incursions with various ships i KNOW you need 4 tracking mods and tracking implant to make 1400mm semi viable to anything that manage to come closer.

This is my fitting.

Gun DPS 936.6 Quake, max skills
Drone DPS 158.4 Hammerhead II
Total DPS 1095

Works well, but has terribad tracking and the worst DPS from any marauder. Also, implants and some miracles.

Excuse me, but if you use artillery on falloff bonused hull, you're doing it wrong. On TQ my AC Vargur kills faster in 50-60km range than rail Kronos. And the closer the merrier.

are you a pVp-er or PvE-er ? because i cant understand a pVp-er who interested in changing "used to be PvE oriented" ships to sub-capital dreads? it is better for you to be interested in "most welcome and long waited by nullfolks" re-working/balancing Black OPs, isnt it?

i never like Overpowered classes, items, spells, abilities etc in games.. both PVE and PVP.. so you are wrong, that "PVE pilots" you pointed, i am not one of them.. but i am sure most of PVPer are in search of the best, the stronger, the most deadly, the overpowered..