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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Isinero
Perkone
Caldari State
#6201 - 2013-10-18 13:36:18 UTC
I can see everyone crying but I am probably one of people who likes the changes
I am really looking forward to new paladin which will be at least for me much better in L4 missions

and I dont see major probem in frigates
1) I can jump out and wipe them
2) I can use drones to destroy them

But yeah ... the truth is that I am not flying incursion and that is maybe the reason why I like the changes :-)
Isinero
Perkone
Caldari State
#6202 - 2013-10-18 13:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Isinero
I believe that we should maybe get "bonus to targeting range". It will be really helpful (we get range but we dont get better targeting range)

maybe something like +5% per level or something like that
Some of the marauder (especially vargur) will jump out and lost targets...

Other marauders will probably dont lost them (but it will be close if they will jump out of orbiting frigate)
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6203 - 2013-10-18 13:58:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
I want to address marauder dps again. There have been several posts comparing them to pirate ships, this is not going to be one of them as CCP already has plans to rebalance them. However, t1 battleships have already had a rebalance, and I believe the current iteration doesn't do a couple hulls justice in terms of raw dps:

= Paladin vs Abaddon =
Raw turret dps is equal.
Abaddon has 75 bandwidth while the paladin has 25.

= Vargur vs Maelstrom =
Raw turret dps is equal.
Maelstrom has 100 bandwidth while the vargur has 50

In keeping consistent with other combat ship lines, the paladin and vargur should have better raw dps than similar t1 options.

How to implement:
My personal preference is drones as they complement the idea high storage, working around ewar rather than having nice sensor strength, and supports bastion well. It also makes marauders very different from most pirates. My suggestion for band/bay:
Paladin 100/ 150
Golem 100/150
Kronos 125/200
Vargur 125/ 175

Alteratively, a small dmg bonus on the hull would be much appreciated. I know CCP wants to keep them turret / launcher focused, but if that focus remains the turrets / launchers should be a bit better


Because in the case of the kronos we could slap on drone damage mods in all of those spare tank slots we now have and get crazy amounts of damage out of them.

Meh, suppose you use 2 lows + bastion for tank, that leaves u with 5 lows for upgrades / puts u on par with vagur lows.

Although I want to avoid pirate comparisons, the vindi has 125 band and better turret dmg with the same number of lows, so it isn't completely outclassed.
Lin Xou
The Explodables
#6204 - 2013-10-18 14:12:27 UTC
Anyone complaining about the Golem is bonkers. Golems have always been PvE beasts and now they are amazing. I don’t run incursions or WH so I won’t comment on their effectiveness in them but they great at all other PvE. I agree with Ytterbium that the TP bonus way out performs a missile velocity and explosion radius bonus. Besides more mid slots free make the Golem OP. The drone bay and hull un-nerfs make the golem even more effective. Personally very happy to have a PvE ship like this in my arsenal.

Vargur is a mixed bag I don’t know if I like it or not seems ok at everything but I just get bored using it on Sisi. Very Meh. Good tank, average damage, damage projection ok, good alpha. I feel the scan resolution could be buffed or a sensor booster effectiveness bonus. The slot layout makes it a hard fit as too many low not enough mediums. Still its ok 3 extra highs gives all these ships some potential.

Kronos is really being forced to use rails as it can’t realistically use blasters. I would like this ship if it was simply a sentry drone ship. The fact the ship + the sentry can’t move and you can remote assist your sentries with the extra high slots and med slots for tracking would make this interesting while fitting gallante ship mechanics. Now it’s a garbage dps vindicator that can’t move/web or an armor tanking rokh that can’t move. Both said ships cover the role better than the Kronos as they can both use MJD and move. Yes the Kronos can move outside bastion but then it’s a rokh without ASB potential. Currently Active armor tanks are irrelevant when they are immobile and 100% cap dependent. If the MJD was zero second pool up it would be worthy. Now 52 second reuse timer is ok but tbh I usually wait 3 minutes in-between jumps anyway. In short it does nothing special.

To say I hate the Paladin more than an armor tanking drake with rockets would be an understatement. It can do effective dps of 650-750 dps with scorch at 70-90km meh. Apoc does this too at less optimum granted and can use the MJD almost as effective. The paladin isn’t good PvE because it lacks DPS on NPC ships except drones and Sansha. I feel for the Incursion guys because the web bonus was the only thing that made this ship special as an Amaar BS now can’t be remote assisted. The ship cannot be fixed conventionally and I guess you can’t please everyone but I expected a lot from this ship. The ship can’t be used in PvP and it isn’t effective PvE. I ask CCP what is this ship supposed to specialize at doing? Not to be rude I am curious. I don’t think you will be able to give these ships away never mind the price tag. There are so many weaknesses to this ship. Range bonuses to NOS like the TP on the golem could give it adequate cap to defend itself from a NPC NEWT which would increase the effectiveness in some PvE scenarios. But nothing short of 20% bonus to cap battery effectiveness per level would make this ship viable in PvP.


They are PvE ships clearly.


I like the deployable salvage thingy sounds fun.
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6205 - 2013-10-18 14:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulfen
I think people need to remember that pirate BS are going to be getting a nerf (or buff depending on ship) the pirate BS dont get "Roles" they are just straight down the line BS with skills where as T2 ships have specific roles, the new marauders will not be able to fit more of a buffer than the existing pirate BS for fleets(while outside of bastion), they will have less damage than a pirate BS, but better range for applying DPS, the MJD bonus is good a will be used well by most, due to the high cargo hold aswell it is very easy to take a large number of cap boosters to keep an active hardend tank and some nice utility highs to fit 2 NOS 1 SB on them meaning drones will clear nice n easily. sure you sensor strength is low but there has to be trade-offs personally i can see the that for low sec corps who like to use shiny fleets of Faction bs will likely make a switch to have at least some of their fleet made up of these ships.

However If CCP was to give the base hulls the T2 resistances then we would see a complete power shift to these ships for fleet fights. currently you need to be in bastion to beat the buffer of a well fit Vindicator/Mach, and this is running a high tank setup 4 B-Type active hardeners and a C-Type energised.

Depending on how the market sits after these changes i think we might see them in pvp, but only if the hull price drops to around 600-700mill because they are not as good as some of the pirate ships but do beat the navy faction so aslong as the price fits between those 2 they will fit perfectly in CCPs chart they made about how ships should be balanced.

EDIT: Also people should remember it is alot easier to train for a pirate BS than it is to train for a marauader properly, as to extract the top dps you need to train marauders to lvl V.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#6206 - 2013-10-18 14:41:23 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Luckily any proposed changed made by players are usually far too obviously broken. I have no doubt that CCP would never actually consider implementing them so dont misunderstand my reasons for arguing against them. I am merely trying to assertain if you genuinely believe in those changes or if you are trolling.

not sure yet.


The problem is that most people that play the game don't really understand it. It should be very obvious why a marauder without a active tanking bonus, more speed, sensor strength, lock speed, another projection bonus and utility bonuses geared towards RR and mwd movement is far better for most pve and most pvp scenarios then what CCP has in mind(it is ok that they lose some stuff for massive tanks, however it is not ok that people should lose her marauders for ships and stuff they have no use for to begin with). It is actually a very balanced solution to marauders, from someone that flown all of them a lot and knows where they could use a little helping hand to be overall more appealing compared to faction BS, not because they are they are plain more powerful(what they are not), but because they add useful bonuses to gangs, and cover certain niches better than her faction counterparts.

I for myself don't need the extra tank(not for L4 and certainly not when I use RR), however I am interested in keeping the marauders useful for more than having a afk friendly tank, for people that did know why, when and how to fly marauders.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#6207 - 2013-10-18 15:15:02 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Luckily any proposed changed made by players are usually far too obviously broken. I have no doubt that CCP would never actually consider implementing them so dont misunderstand my reasons for arguing against them. I am merely trying to assertain if you genuinely believe in those changes or if you are trolling.

not sure yet.


The problem is that most people that play the game don't really understand it. It should be very obvious why a marauder without a active tanking bonus, more speed, sensor strength, lock speed, another projection bonus and utility bonuses geared towards RR and mwd movement is far better for most pve and most pvp scenarios then what CCP has in mind(it is ok that they lose some stuff for massive tanks, however it is not ok that people should lose her marauders for ships and stuff they have no use for to begin with). It is actually a very balanced solution to marauders, from someone that flown all of them a lot and knows where they could use a little helping hand to be overall more appealing compared to faction BS, not because they are they are plain more powerful(what they are not), but because they add useful bonuses to gangs, and cover certain niches better than her faction counterparts.

I for myself don't need the extra tank(not for L4 and certainly not when I use RR), however I am interested in keeping the marauders useful for more than having a afk friendly tank, for people that did know why, when and how to fly marauders.


The Djego, you know we will be mothballing ours, or selling them.
The Marauder class had a specialized role, a PvE ship. It was never designed for PvP, outside of the Alliance tourney, which in and of itself is contrived PvP.

So now CCP is trying to make it into a PvP sniper boat with MjD capabilities. Think there are 2 or 3 T1 BS's that do that now.

But fight this is over. Another terrible design of a ship will get rammed through. There will be tears after the masses who don't even read the forums start flying them and realize how terribad they are.

Prices will spike for them before and just after Nov 19th. Then they will slowly slide as the full awfulness is realized.
By then, we will be flying another class of ship, inferior to the current Marauder, and just sadly shaking our heads.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#6208 - 2013-10-18 15:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
The Djego wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Luckily any proposed changed made by players are usually far too obviously broken. I have no doubt that CCP would never actually consider implementing them so dont misunderstand my reasons for arguing against them. I am merely trying to assertain if you genuinely believe in those changes or if you are trolling.

not sure yet.


The problem is that most people that play the game don't really understand it. It should be very obvious why a marauder without a active tanking bonus, more speed, sensor strength, lock speed, another projection bonus and utility bonuses geared towards RR and mwd movement is far better for most pve and most pvp scenarios then what CCP has in mind(it is ok that they lose some stuff for massive tanks, however it is not ok that people should lose her marauders for ships and stuff they have no use for to begin with). It is actually a very balanced solution to marauders, from someone that flown all of them a lot and knows where they could use a little helping hand to be overall more appealing compared to faction BS, not because they are they are plain more powerful(what they are not), but because they add useful bonuses to gangs, and cover certain niches better than her faction counterparts.

I for myself don't need the extra tank(not for L4 and certainly not when I use RR), however I am interested in keeping the marauders useful for more than having a afk friendly tank, for people that did know why, when and how to fly marauders.


The Djego, you know we will be mothballing ours, or selling them.
The Marauder class had a specialized role, a PvE ship. It was never designed for PvP, outside of the Alliance tourney, which in and of itself is contrived PvP.

So now CCP is trying to make it into a PvP sniper boat with MjD capabilities. Think there are 2 or 3 T1 BS's that do that now.

But fight this is over. Another terrible design of a ship will get rammed through. There will be tears after the masses who don't even read the forums start flying them and realize how terribad they are.

Prices will spike for them before and just after Nov 19th. Then they will slowly slide as the full awfulness is realized.
By then, we will be flying another class of ship, inferior to the current Marauder, and just sadly shaking our heads.


There is no such thing as "PvE" in this game, and shootings ships is not the "PvP" part of the game. EvE is not split in half like the simplistic kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg games you play.

The Tears Must Flow
DSpite Culhach
#6209 - 2013-10-18 16:02:45 UTC
Regarding the price of the hulls, I'm still shaky at making calculations, so I was using a program called ISK Per Hour, and looked at making a Golem after importing prices from Jita.

I keep seeing the hull costing close to 1 billion just to make it, after getting bits. Some people have inferred they might get cheaper if no one uses them? Unless people buy the first ones at massive losses from the desperate seller, won't that mean the hulls will _always_ cost over a billion?

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Brib Vogt
Doomheim
#6210 - 2013-10-18 16:03:00 UTC
Vulven:
Quote:
"but better range for applying DPS,"


Thats just wrong. The only ones having it is Paladin, rail Kronos, Cruise Golem and Arty Vargur.

Cruise golem and arty vargur don't need it. Torp golem and ac vargur can't get the big advantage out of it. Torps are still too close and falloff bonus gives nearly no advantage.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6211 - 2013-10-18 16:37:47 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Regarding the price of the hulls, I'm still shaky at making calculations, so I was using a program called ISK Per Hour, and looked at making a Golem after importing prices from Jita.

I keep seeing the hull costing close to 1 billion just to make it, after getting bits. Some people have inferred they might get cheaper if no one uses them? Unless people buy the first ones at massive losses from the desperate seller, won't that mean the hulls will _always_ cost over a billion?


It does, unless you're buying from a manufacturer who thinks that the minerals and T2 components they acquire themselves are somehow free.
Tramar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6212 - 2013-10-18 17:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tramar
Maradeurs need a boost to be more or less attractive both in pvp and pve, the forced long range role won't work. There are still ships which can do everything better.
Shivanthar
#6213 - 2013-10-18 17:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Anize Oramara wrote:

wait, you go 700m/s with an AB in a Vargur?

Wat?

With lv5 skills and a Gist X-type 100mn AB you go 479m/s so stop talking out your rear orifice.


Before getting arrogant, let's just look up what you said (I based my calculations on what you wrote, not mine):

Anize Oramara wrote:

...if you are going around 700m/s it will take THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME as doing a triangulation...


So you are trolling a number out of your mind, then criticize ppl when it is used by them? Nice work.

Let me tell you what, even with 479m/s, I will cover up to 42km range faster than your triangulation, which will still fall 10-40km of common acceleration gate range in missions.


Anize Oramara wrote:

Also, for the minute I'm bastioned I have pretty decent accurate guns since I'm standing still and not going 700m/s so popping frigs etc.


I have never had any problem doing this. By the time I start moving, frigs blows first, cruisers later and by the time I get near to acceleration gate, only bs' remain mostly, On the half-way, I generally shut off my AB, in order to start salvaging at the same time.
There are two possibilities at this position:
- You are ~100km away and you won't be hitting anything very well with your AC.
- You are ~100km away with an Arty fit and you kill stuff for sure, but with slower rate.
- Not to mention your drone usage, I can use mine without a glitch, while you have to fit TWO drone links on your highs. Chances are that when your drones start getting agro, you will loose them on the way back, while I would've recalled mines into my drone bay in much smaller timeframe.

Anize Oramara wrote:

Thats also not taking into account the misisons where the gates are FARTHER than 50km away, like 100km+ I'll be on the gate in 9sec. good luck catching up in those.


(Edit: I don't quite understand here, I'm not waiting with AB fit, you are the one waiting for bastion cycles. On the other hand, how many lvl4 missions can you count that has 100km+ acceleration gate seperation? O.o)

And thats also not taking into account that you killed everything but you recently started another bastion cycle, good luck waiting another minute, watching the beautiful nebula.

You have been talking like when you finish clearing a room, you will instantly start using your MJD. Your 88 seconds of triangulation will only work if you won't auto-repeat your bastion cycles. Since your second jump will finalize the "triangle", you will end up near acceleration gate or your target location, which will bring your (arty fit?) ship closer to enemies, then guess what happens with the tracking?

Mostly, what you'll get is a cleared room with bastion module somewhere half-way. Good luck with your waits.

Anize Oramara wrote:

Also don't be that guy who cant switch out a MJD for a MWD depending on the mission. It's not that hard I can give you a video tutorial on switching out modules if you need it.


You clearly don't understand the facts I have been trying to argue here. This is a re-balance thread and I've been arguing something much different. I can fit an armor tanked Vargur, even though it is a ST, with no problem, but you see, it would be just writing something to fill spaces...

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6214 - 2013-10-18 17:40:20 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:


Meh, suppose you use 2 lows + bastion for tank, that leaves u with 5 lows for upgrades / puts u on par with vagur lows.

Although I want to avoid pirate comparisons, the vindi has 125 band and better turret dmg with the same number of lows, so it isn't completely outclassed.


Vindi cannot fit a two slot tank for level 4s.
Shivanthar
#6215 - 2013-10-18 17:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Vaju Enki wrote:

There is no such thing as "PvE" in this game, and shootings ships is not the "PvP" part of the game. EvE is not split in half like the simplistic kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg games you play.


LMAO. No such thing? Aren't there? Let me tell you mister, you are incredibly confused.

Taken directly from source: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PvP

" The term "PvP" stands for "Player vs. Player". PvP activities are a major feature of Eve Online. The term can be used to describe anything from ship to ship combat to market competition against your peers. In most cases, however, the term is used to refer to ship to ship combat between players, either individually, or in groups.

For some players, PvP combat is the primary reason to play Eve Online. For others, it's simply one of many aspects of the game. Some players prefer to avoid, if possible, any involvement in PvP combat, preferring to focus on the "Player vs. Environment" (PvE) aspects of Eve Online. These players are sometimes referred to as "carebears".
"

So, with that confusion cleared up, yes, marauders were the ships of PvE, and yes, CCP is trying to make them viable PvP option.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6216 - 2013-10-18 18:00:25 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:

I have never had any problem doing this. By the time I start moving, frigs blows first, cruisers later and by the time I get near to acceleration gate, only bs' remain mostly, On the half-way, I generally shut off my AB, in order to start salvaging at the same time.
There are two possibilities at this position:
- You are ~100km away and you won't be hitting anything very well with your AC.
- You are ~100km away with an Arty fit and you kill stuff for sure, but with slower rate.


What you're not factoring here is that killing targets 100km away is completing faster.
With an arty fit, you will have killed several targets before they get into AC range. This means faster...


Quote:
(Edit: I don't quite understand here, I'm not waiting with AB fit, you are the one waiting for bastion cycles. On the other hand, how many lvl4 missions can you count that has 100km+ acceleration gate seperation? O.o)

And thats also not taking into account that you killed everything but you recently started another bastion cycle, good luck waiting another minute, watching the beautiful nebula.

You have been talking like when you finish clearing a room, you will instantly start using your MJD. Your 88 seconds of triangulation will only work if you won't auto-repeat your bastion cycles. Since your second jump will finalize the "triangle", you will end up near acceleration gate or your target location, which will get your (arty fit?) appear closer to enemies, then guess what happens with the tracking?

Mostly, what you'll get is a cleared room with bastion module somewhere half-way. Good luck with your waits.


You're not factoring the bigger picture here.
Odds are you will run more than one bastion cycle before you are able to clear a room.
I MJD out, Bastion, kill some stuff, MJD to gate, bastion, kill some stuff, and end bastion cycle while there are 2-3 ships left.

You come in and bastion, kills stuff, and MWD/AB to gate. Maybe you run to gate when you only have a couple targets left, but you also lose out on tracking by doing so.

Point is, even if we're able to get to the gate at the same time, I am doing so much more effectively in that i'm not losing out to tracking difficulties during this process.

Quote:
Anize Oramara wrote:

Also don't be that guy who cant switch out a MJD for a MWD depending on the mission. It's not that hard I can give you a video tutorial on switching out modules if you need it.


You clearly don't understand the facts I have been trying to argue here. This is a re-balance thread and I've been arguing something much different. I can fit an armor tanked Vargur, even though it is a ST, with no problem, but you see, it would be just writing something to fill spaces...


HUH?
Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6217 - 2013-10-18 18:01:01 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:

There is no such thing as "PvE" in this game, and shootings ships is not the "PvP" part of the game. EvE is not split in half like the simplistic kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg games you play.


LMAO. No such thing? Aren't there? Let me tell you mister, you are incredibly confused.

Taken directly from source: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PvP

" The term "PvP" stands for "Player vs. Player". PvP activities are a major feature of Eve Online. The term can be used to describe anything from ship to ship combat to market competition against your peers. In most cases, however, the term is used to refer to ship to ship combat between players, either individually, or in groups.

For some players, PvP combat is the primary reason to play Eve Online. For others, it's simply one of many aspects of the game. Some players prefer to avoid, if possible, any involvement in PvP combat, preferring to focus on the "Player vs. Environment" (PvE) aspects of Eve Online. These players are sometimes referred to as "carebears".
"

So, with that confusion cleared up, yes, marauders were the ships of PvE, and yes, CCP is trying to make them viable PvP option.


and when the environment functions identically to other players? what happens then? the categories you've pointed out are conceptual only they don't actually exist for ships in EvE only for the players using them.

They only serve to differentiate one intention behind and action and another, no ship in EvE is forced only to fly in missions, or incursions or in PVP fleets or in wormhole anomalies, to say a ship is designed for a given mechanic exclusively is what's moronic.

- ships may be better or worse than others at executing a certain task, but all ships are equally capable of making the attempt in some manner - it's just a question of the measures a player must take in order to make it possible.

all you're pointing out here is pilots are taking the path of least resistance and saying it must have been by design we can't make use of these anywhere but missions as a poor excuse for an absence of effort, creativity or game mechanics knowledge.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6218 - 2013-10-18 18:02:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:


Meh, suppose you use 2 lows + bastion for tank, that leaves u with 5 lows for upgrades / puts u on par with vagur lows.

Although I want to avoid pirate comparisons, the vindi has 125 band and better turret dmg with the same number of lows, so it isn't completely outclassed.


Vindi cannot fit a two slot tank for level 4s.



With bastion it's 3 slots, but I think with all that bastion provides, if you use an AAR, or maybe even just a large repper, you might very well be able to fit only 2 tank mods in your lows.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6219 - 2013-10-18 18:05:23 UTC
Wedgetail wrote:
Shivanthar wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:

There is no such thing as "PvE" in this game, and shootings ships is not the "PvP" part of the game. EvE is not split in half like the simplistic kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg games you play.


LMAO. No such thing? Aren't there? Let me tell you mister, you are incredibly confused.

Taken directly from source: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PvP

" The term "PvP" stands for "Player vs. Player". PvP activities are a major feature of Eve Online. The term can be used to describe anything from ship to ship combat to market competition against your peers. In most cases, however, the term is used to refer to ship to ship combat between players, either individually, or in groups.

For some players, PvP combat is the primary reason to play Eve Online. For others, it's simply one of many aspects of the game. Some players prefer to avoid, if possible, any involvement in PvP combat, preferring to focus on the "Player vs. Environment" (PvE) aspects of Eve Online. These players are sometimes referred to as "carebears".
"

So, with that confusion cleared up, yes, marauders were the ships of PvE, and yes, CCP is trying to make them viable PvP option.


and when the environment functions identically to other players? what happens then? the categories you've pointed out are conceptual only they don't actually exist for ships in EvE only for the players using them.

They only serve to differentiate one intention behind and action and another, no ship in EvE is forced only to fly in missions, or incursions or in PVP fleets or in wormhole anomalies, to say a ship is designed for a given mechanic exclusively is what's moronic.

- ships may be better or worse than others at executing a certain task, but all ships are equally capable of making the attempt in some manner - it's just a question of the measures a player must take in order to make it possible.

all you're pointing out here is pilots are taking the path of least resistance and saying it must have been by design we can't make use of these anywhere but missions as a poor excuse for an absence of effort, creativity or game mechanics knowledge.



It was actually CCP who said Marauders were focused specifically with PVE in mind when they designed them.
They were actually given low sensor strength in order for them to be almost useless in pvp.

Now, with bastion, CCP is reverting from this, but they're still very much focused on pve, and as CCP has said, are very niche in pvp.
Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6220 - 2013-10-18 18:13:41 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


It was actually CCP who said Marauders were focused specifically with PVE in mind when they designed them.
They were actually given low sensor strength in order for them to be almost useless in pvp.

Now, with bastion, CCP is reverting from this, but they're still very much focused on pve, and as CCP has said, are very niche in pvp.


yup, but that's not a limit saying "they are this kind of ship"

that they are battle ships imposes limits, they can't become cruisers for example

while designed with PVE in mind means better at situations that resemble a PVE scenario - one ship vs many weaker ones - doesn't mean cannot PVP, just means you must make adjustments that'll make them work for pvp - flying with another ship or fitting a sensor booster/PECCM, or only warping them in when there's no EWAR on the other side.

if it can kill a rat it can kill a player, it's just a question of when.