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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Tess La'Coil
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#601 - 2013-08-30 10:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tess La'Coil
Only real way of sorting out the Noctis vs Marauder is probably giving the Marauders some sort of AoE tractorbeam and Salvager.

Add a bonus to Bastion:
"When activated you work like a magnet and pull all wrecks towards you ship in range of your Salvage drones"

Somewhat delayed/slower working than Noctis might be ok.. but atm it's just very gimped compared to a Noctis.

Lloyd Roses wrote:
Capital Commanders and Pilots do not want a timer reduction for Siege or Triage Mode that is completely new to me. Afaik people are happy the shorter the cycle is.

Agreed, but as long as everyone is on the same timer.. thus, introducing a requirement to train it to a certain level like Jump Drive Calibration is for Ops.
Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother. 
fudface
ACME-INC
#602 - 2013-08-30 10:52:02 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The new skill is needed because the Tactical Reconfiguration one gives a fuel reduction to Strontium Clathrates. I'm pretty sure you guys don't want to overflow your cargo with those P

Also, remember the bastion cycle time is only 60 seconds when maxed. For Incursions, you can always pulse it on / off depending on circumstances.


have you tested this inside an incursion site?

you nerfed my drones and my web bonus making the paladin and months of my training useless for my main activity in eve.

-1 ccp

i want an opt out of this change and keep my paladin as it is.

my 2 isk worth
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#603 - 2013-08-30 10:57:35 UTC
This is a kind of module EVE needs the least. It's especially useless for PvP.

Stop trying to make it better and instead go fix blobs of supercapitals jumping all around the universe in 5 minutes.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#604 - 2013-08-30 10:58:21 UTC
Agent Eagle Zero wrote:
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Agent Eagle Zero wrote:
The Bastion module gives equal bonuses to optimal and falloff. Shouldn't it be a double bonus for falloff, just like for example the Tracking Enhancer or Tracking Computer? Otherwise the autocannon Vargur and in lesser degree the blaster Kronos would receive an inferior damage projection bonus to the Paladin.


That would be useless for Mega Pulse Paladin?


That is the point. Because the Mega Pulse Paladin has such a long optimal range, it would get the full benefit of an optimal range bonus. One kilometer of optimal gives you more range than one kilometer of falloff. An autocannon Vargur would only benefit from a falloff bonus, and thus receive an inferior range bonus. It would be better to make the Bastion module give 25 percent more optimal range and 50 percent more falloff.


With double falloff bonus Vargur could hit targets at 90km. Paladin can't get even close to that range with double falloff bonus.
S1dy
Uplifting Infernal Paradise
#605 - 2013-08-30 10:58:47 UTC
Kyang Tia wrote:
This Marauder change will, at least from a small scale pvp standpoint, make this problem much worse for all marauders. With very specialized and unique bonuses, there is no way you can ever surprise anyone. You can MJD around, then stand there, tank insane amounts of damage and eventually die to overwhelming numbers. And everyone knows that is the only thing you can do. So people will just think about what they need to kill you without any losses and bring that in, or, failing that, not engage you.

Since marauders were never used much in small-scale pvp anyway that is not a huge problem. But it is a good example for the general direction your balancing efforts are going towards. I have been a huge fan of tiericide for the past two years, but maybe you are overdoing it a little. This marauder thing, frankly, sounds terrible to me. In my eyes, gearing a ship so completely towards one very specific playstyle goes against the principles of EVE. You might want to think about where this is going to end.


Marauders are Tech 2 and therefore specialized ships. All specialized ships are in any way fitted depending which bonuses they provide so everyone is able to expect what he is encountering. There are a few cases these ships use different fittings (such as the blaster falcon for example), but generally it's foreseeable.

This proposed changes are fine. I am Ok with them. It's sad to see they never put that effort into HACs and Command Ships, but oh well...

At least Marauders are looking so fine with this stats, I am already thinking of skilling marauders in the near future. Until now there was no way I would ever do this since they never gave me any advantage for what I would use them for.
Stjaerna Ramundson
#606 - 2013-08-30 11:01:05 UTC
*waiting for a Drone Marauder* :-/
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Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#607 - 2013-08-30 11:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Not sure if beging for strontium bay or not. Lol


Why would you do that when they are finally tweaking Marauders to match their description?

"Geared toward versatility and prolonged deployment in hostile environments"

Stjaerna Ramundson wrote:
*waiting for a Drone Marauder* :-/


This is what I still don't understand. Did that third sentry really contribute that much to applied dps?
SwissChris1
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#608 - 2013-08-30 11:04:52 UTC
"Capable of using Micro Jump Drive at a faster rate"
-This I actually like a lot.

"Deployed mode..."
-If the timer isn't > 30 seconds this might be interesting...but still it will limit this ship mostly for PVE duties because in PVP you want to be mobile(ish)

"Stepping stone between sub-capitals / capital"
-OK...but then don't introduce a new skill. **** that. It should use the "Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration" skill. Training a Maurader to all Vs already takes long enough without another Rank 8 skill. Please, please, NO, NOOOOOO
Deacon Ix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#609 - 2013-08-30 11:05:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Ix
Desperately needs a Damage bonus when in deployed mode to make them viable in PvP, (and make them more like mini Dreads)

Bit miffed about the single bonus to Missiles 25% to both Velocity and flight time would seem the way to go

Other wise I love the idea but I don't think it's enough to get them into PvP
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#610 - 2013-08-30 11:06:27 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

BASTION MODULE

  • When in bastion mode, Marauder is immune to EW but cannot be remote assisted in any way

    • Does it apply to defender missiles too (for example by considerably increased amount of hp each missile got)?.

    If bastion module works against tracking disruptors, should work against defenders since both are anti-weapon systems, directly affecting hi slots.
    Tobias Hareka
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #611 - 2013-08-30 11:10:08 UTC
    Deacon Ix wrote:
    Desperately needs a Damage bonus when in deployed mode to make them viable in PvP, (and make them more like mini Dreads)


    "Let's obsolete pirate battleships."

    No?
    Evanga
    DoctorOzz
    Domain Research and Mining Inst.
    #612 - 2013-08-30 11:11:07 UTC
    imagine if the black ops get a similar bastion mod, like 100% dps Cool
    Tzel Mayon
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #613 - 2013-08-30 11:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tzel Mayon
    Cade Windstalker wrote:


    First off, working with allies qualifies as effort. Maybe I should have been more specific but generally organizing people, grouping up, and working toward a common goal takes effort.

    Second, your idea has absolutely no basis in any sort of live gameplay. You've created this vision in your head of how this is going to work with nothing to back it up.



    You want a Basis why small units can be effective in large scale operations, with large units? ... How about Reality? Strategy, or simple logic. :p Marauder synergy with frigates would be an incredible new mechanic in eve, that would significantly impact gameplay by briging frigate pilots more into battleship and capital ship fights. And CCP hasn't given us significant mechanic additions in /years/. Okay, a few. :) No, hacking mini games don't count! :)

    No one in their right minds would think think of jump-portaling or warping in to smart bombing range.... Or to do so without an anti-drone solution of their own.

    But..

    Back to the basis, and why "Marauders defined as Harassment ships" naturally go hand in hand with frigates, (even though it is explicitly obvious)... Small units in /any/ form of combat have roles .... (Even if it is to be cannon fodder).

    You mentioned that There has been a lot of frigate fleet experimentation in null sec, and you are exactly right, (I have been participating).

    It is evident that frigates in large battleship and capital ship engagements are not very good. Its obvious.

    But, if Marauders are to be defined as harassment, hit and run operations, and frigates are natural fits into this as well, it seems /reasonable/ at the very least that there could be some cool synergy.

    CCP Has an opportunity here to give Frigates a chance in veteran battleship and capital ship operations, (from incursions, to sov wars, to ... whatever).

    If you personally don't see the opportunities that moving frigates around a battlefield fast are ... Wormhole Space, FW, etc... Meh.

    Then let everyone else try. :)

    There really is no reason why CCP can't do an iteration on getting veteran capital fleets to /need/ new frigate pilots, and trying to get all ship roles involved.

    Besides, Frigates are by far the funnest ships to pilot. :)

    It leads to very complex field operations ... and gets people thinking, rathing than blobbing... But, it is definitely neither here nor there at this point. I have made my case . .. Many times.

    o/
    Violet Winters
    I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
    Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
    #614 - 2013-08-30 11:16:07 UTC
    The only problem I found with all Marauders is the Sensor Strength, and I don't feel a "Let me just sit here and let you shoot me for a few mins so I can't get jammed" is a very good solution, while the idea is cool I don't see why you can't just increase the Sensor Strength so the Bastion Module isn't totally necessary for PVP without getting dunked by a griffin....

    CEO - Anglic Eclipse.
    Lallante
    Blue Republic
    RvB - BLUE Republic
    #615 - 2013-08-30 11:17:49 UTC
    Dear CCP

    Instead of introducing a new skill, please use the existing skills "Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration" or "Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration" (or both). This will introduce interesting cross training opportunities and eliminate a "1 ship wonder" skill which seems like a pointless SP sink.
    Violet Winters
    I HAVE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANIME ON MY SIDE
    Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
    #616 - 2013-08-30 11:19:40 UTC
    Lallante wrote:
    Dear CCP

    Instead of introducing a new skill, please use the existing skills "Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration" or "Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration" (or both). This will introduce interesting cross training opportunities and eliminate a "1 ship wonder" skill which seems like a pointless SP sink.


    or just use the Marauders Skill considering this module is only going to be used on that class of Ship.

    CEO - Anglic Eclipse.
    Danica Fox
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #617 - 2013-08-30 11:20:16 UTC
    missile bonus should be explosion radius or exp velocity cruises are already @ over any other range and torps ... are obsolute after last missile "rebalance". the defender thing is a point my ewar immunity should cover it..

    and again vargur to the guy that stated vargur can do damage to 90km with autocannons look @ a damage graph learn what falloff is and then understand and then only then post again about how imba falloff boni might be
    Silenciel
    Penguins at school
    #618 - 2013-08-30 11:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Silenciel
    At least, theses high end PVE BS are still not high end ships in high end PVE (WH, Incursion).
    (High BS because of skills : BS skills are lvl 8, marauder is lvl 10)

    So, why not a new serie of marauders with the tier 3 hull with bonus like Armor/Shield transfer and/or abilities to lower the bad effects on both WH and incursion ?

    And for the actual Marauders, like others said, tractor beam bonus is nonsense (micro jump drive bonus) and outdated (Noctis).
    Aaron Kyoto
    Frozen Silver.
    Arkhos Core
    #619 - 2013-08-30 11:29:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron Kyoto
    Tara Read wrote:
    TrouserDeagle wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    55-60km falloff on a Null Neutron Blaster Kronos



    And you guys wonder why small ships are irrelevant in actual fights.


    Don't be mad Trouser. As for this whole change I like it! Just give the Kronos it's web bonus back Pirate


    He does realize this thing is going to get owned by stealth bombers, right?

    Stationary with a massive mass and signiture. Yeah.

    Personally I love the changes. I've been advocating turning marauders into siegeable ships for some time. Also means with their very specific applications, they can excell at them. Ie; Need something soft but irriating taken down? (Falcon much?) Bastion time!

    Also means you could actually buffer fit it with some insane tank and take the damage application role as opposed to actual raw damage. Would certainly work on anything that relies on EWar or distance to tank.

    Also, people complaining about the new skill should consider. "Could a subcapital module like this be used on other ships..? Logistics..?" etc.

    Tho ofc the Logi one would need energy / reps..
    Sabriz Adoudel
    Move along there is nothing here
    #620 - 2013-08-30 11:32:10 UTC
    Oh I like this a lot.

    Still, I'd like to see an alternative to Bastion mode (using a different module, that cannot be fitted at the same time as the Bastion module) that allows the ship to serve an anti-POS role for places where dreadnoughts are not an option (C1-3 wormholes and highsec).

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