Player Features and Ideas Discussion

obviously you're doing it wrong if you have 18 webs and no target painters.

learn2minxmax correctly

command ships don't need to mjd

if i was a dev i wouldn't respond to your tantrums either, (partly because it's funny) but mostly because you have not raised a valid point aside from "wahhh my webs, i can't do what i want to do!"

but i'm not a dev and i find it rather hilarious how mad you are getting. your favourite toy is being changed and you can't stand it. why haven't you threatened to rage quit yet?

instead all you're doing is yelling at others and telling them they don't know how to play and that your opinion and knowledge is superior, which, it isn't, cause this is a game.

the new marauders will open up more options than they remove. you should embrace that instead of whine that your extremely niche mindset is being set back (but not erased because, *gasp* vindicator)

open your mind buddy, you're stuck in this tiny elite incursion realm that you've created for yourself. did you know there are things to do in EVE other than incursions with an elite 10 paladin 1 onieros fleet?

did you know others still make more ISK than you do no matter how elite you are at incursions?

some battleship hulls lend themselves better to long range weapons over short range. some vice versa.

imo, currently the pirate battleship hulls are very short range oriented. (bhaal can web out to scorch, vindi webs for blasters, mach gets great falloff for ACs, nightmare sorta swings both ways) it will be nice to have ships which are so well specialized to long range battleship sized weapon platforms.

the MJD bonus gives this a completely new and added flavour which no other ship class that uses long range weapons can enjoy.

the only anomaly to this template, as yitterbum has stated, is the paladin, and this is basically because scorch can reach out to beam range anyway negating its necessity to use long range weapons.

as a halfway concession, someone else in this threadnaught did mention it... maybe adding a bit more falloff to bastion mode would be welcome, but imo not necessary for a system which is seems very primarily geared for long range combat.

Proper minmaxed fleets wont have space for marauders. They will be 3 logis and about half half t3 and Vindicators (or other flavor damage ship of the season).

Marauders cannot replace any of those in fleets and tryign will result in less money per hour.

I knew, somewhere inside you were thinking all of us ;)

I'm moslty talking about large size fleets (Assaults and up). But you are right. Marauders can't actually replace ships in an incursion fleet, unless you get 10 marauders for VGs with local tanks and know what you're doing and how to FC a different kind of fleet, even then it would be arguable.

My point is that Marauders shouldn't be shunned from the incursion community or fleets in general. Its a different ship now, it fulfills a new role, they aren't out yet, but people have already called them DOA. Either we adapt to the changes (since the BS hulls are getting the rebalance next), or we just perish and give up. The first is harder but you get to learn way more from a game that has hundreds of possibilities, some better, some worse, some fun, some boring, some more effective, some lousy... the second is the easy solution - don't touch the status quo and resist it as much as possible - giving us a rather stagnant game (and to be very honest, EVE doesn't need more stagnation anymore, the pace of the game is slow already, slowing it down would make it terrrible)

Not the pirate faction hulls though.

Sigh I just don't get it. Ytterbium said the mobility nerf was to penalize the ship for being tanky... but it doesn't become any tankier until activating bastion... at which point, it stops overrides all mobility nerfs by becoming immobile.

Just to summarize:
mobility was nerfed to compensate for additional tank gained only while the ship isn't able to move???

Pls revert these mobility nerfs.

While re-balancing, devs might skip the bigger picture, as many games felt into this error many times in the past. The more numbers they play with, the more the whole picture fades away. I thought addition of the mass to hulls was a mistake (in reverse order) at first, but when I realize that they really added those to "balance" numbers, this made me sure of that they're missing the whole picture again.

Consider this game's faction philosopies and their common construction practices as deities.

The more science you try to put into the mechanics, the less scientists left with belief to these deities, abandoning them, leaving whole idea to perish in the way of numbers of *balancing mechanics*.

This is why this thread is 300+ pages long.
To exaragate this and add some trolling, devs might end up putting laser bonus on the Vargur, in order to balance (*caugh* normalize *caugh*) faction differences some time in the future :P

I'm trolling a lot now, but I've seen this happening in different games, not one time, not twice, ... I hope people get what I mean.

Edit: I hope this trolling will end up with one dev reading into these lines and get some sort of early sign of warning. You guys running into wrong direction, with, unfortunately, right toolbox in your hands.

This bastion mod should be doubled, with another one giving more mobility bonuses. If not, since ccp philosopy is to create two different sides of same thing, you should boost mobility of normal Vargur, as much as you boost tanking on bastion mode. MJD is a way to go, but it will prevent some people from enjoying this game. A LOT.

In an ideal world where every pilot does what they're supposed, yes, some of the webs are wasted (in VGs). In practical terms however, for a long grind fleet, the human factor has a little more weight.
You'll often notice when half the fleet is sleeping when only 1-2 frigates slows down. With painters, this will only get worse.

Now, a fully active Paladin fleet can pop frigates so fast that painters become very painful (due to their 10s cycle). This itself is a form of waste.
If the 5s painter cycle changes goes through in Rubicon, then it's use will certainly be re-evaluated.

Did you miss the post where I said it actually wouldn't?

Unless that is you are going faster than 700m/s you're not going to be faster than a MJD. if you are going around 700m/s it will take THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME as doing a triangulation.

9sec to spool up the MJD, 1min of bastion, another 9 sec to spool up. that's 88sec. 60km going at 700m/s will take you 85.7sec

lawl

It is ~82 seconds for a gate @60km. Because, with ab/mwd or slowboating, you only need to go distance minus 2,5 km in order to activate the gate.

- You HAVE TO complete triangulation cycle for mjd in order to get your target, which is 88 seconds fixed at this example, even for a gate that is 20km away (considering perfect triangulation every time).
- In a chance of miss triangulation (which will be pretty common), you HAVE TO slowboat to the gate.
- Missions perspective, there are very rare 60km-away Gates from entry, most of them are located 10 - 40km in missions.

To summerize, anything closer than 61,6 km from you, will be faster with AB (with 700m/s on this example).