These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#5501 - 2013-10-14 04:39:56 UTC
Iome Ambraelle wrote:
[...]

Marauder as Long Range Tactical Support

  • Bonus to maximum targeting range and sensor resolution
  • Bonus to Remote Sensor Booster optimal range and effectiveness
  • Bonus to Target Painter optimal and falloff range
  • MJD reactivation synchronization within 15 km



Marauder as Safe Zone

  • Increased Remote Assistance effectiveness within 15 km range (still immune to RA itself)
  • Bonus against targeted EWar to all friendlies within 15 km range (still immune to EWar itself)
  • +2 (or more) warp strength to all friendlies within 15 km range (only while immobile in Bastion mode)

The Marauder would increase the overall safety and survive ability of those around it. Although the Marauder may be sacrificed, the remainder of the group would be able to escape nearly any situation. It wouldn't be very powerful but would at least provide an interesting flavor to possible engagements.

[...]


It's a cool concept, but that would basically make the marauders moving auras or fleet boosters on top of the proper fleet boosters with ganglinks. Also would make marauders primaries all the time, and highly unlikeable due to their high price.

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC
Shantetha
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5502 - 2013-10-14 04:43:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:



All you have to do is get under their guns.
Hence the removal of web bonus....

Their weakness is weak tracking...
You can get a pirate bs under their guns and orbit to reduce tracking and tank the all day long..


Edit...
Not to mention they're immobile...
If you can't take them down, just leave... they're not going anywhere...


Its the same justification used for triage carriers, all ships need a few weaknesses and neuts is one of them. Having a neut geddon dumped on you should hurt.



ya 2 cycles = 0 cap then go to 1 neut toggle as he uses cap boosters and lol dead Marauder.

neuts are listed under ewar. Bastion is suppose to be ewar immune. IE should be immune to Neuts.
Iome Ambraelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5503 - 2013-10-14 04:57:26 UTC
Serge SC wrote:
It's a cool concept, but that would basically make the marauders moving auras or fleet boosters on top of the proper fleet boosters with ganglinks. Also would make marauders primaries all the time, and highly unlikeable due to their high price.

I tried to pick combat aspects that weren't necessarily covered by links but there is some overlap. There just isn't a good reason to include a marauder especially at their price and SP cost in any sort of moderate sized PVP activities and their use in group PVE activities could be improved as well. Something to provide a real role would be nice.

Shield Tanking - Why armor tanking can't have nice things.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5504 - 2013-10-14 05:11:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
This just occurred to me... with the Golem getting a new model, does this mean the Raven and Raven Navy Issue are getting the same one in Rubicon? And when can we finally paint these suckers?!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5505 - 2013-10-14 07:12:49 UTC
Serge SC wrote:
It's a cool concept, but that would basically make the marauders moving auras or fleet boosters on top of the proper fleet boosters with ganglinks. Also would make marauders primaries all the time, and highly unlikeable due to their high price.

I don't quite understand why people keep pushing marauders as some sort of aura buffers. Boosts with limited range were discussed quite a lot in boosting changes thread about 6 months ago and it was concluded that it isn't going to happen (because of possibly causing too much pressure if those are used with large group of ships or something).

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Brib Vogt
Doomheim
#5506 - 2013-10-14 07:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Brib Vogt
After fooling around a bit with my vargur in pve i come to use a TP next to 2 TC II. It gives her quite a boost to damage application at close range. I am still a bit pissed of the 5% effectiveness of the Bastions increase in fall off, but this close range stuff is nice.

OFC i have marauder only at 4 in TQ which i maybe regret coming from sisi back to TQ. ^^

What i really would like to have now for my vargur:


  • Drone bay: 50/125 - I can live with the reduction of bandwidth, but please give me more drones. A set of meds, smalls and 2 sentries would be very appreciated.
  • Allow me to insert 2 T2 rigs. give me more possibilities here.
  • I really would like to have my old speed back, but i could live without it. I like to fly with friends and their ships are mostly slower.


I am still a bit frustrated with the underwhelming efficiency at targets from 50 to 90 km. I will not install a MJD, but i really don't know what to fit to make it better. If the Bastions fall-off boost would be without stacking, i guess then it would be resolved.

edit: It is REALLY frustrating. Some Serpentis orbiting me at 50. MJD wouldn't bring a thing. Without afterburner i am slower then them. At this parts i have to say i need more time which means less ISK/Hour.

Angels are fine though.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#5507 - 2013-10-14 08:13:17 UTC
Brib Vogt wrote:


  • Decrease of applied damage
  • over tanked cow
  • reduction in high sec income per hour


there is no worthless, theyy will be used for certain situations like high chance of e war, but they will not be used for incursions. i make more isk/hour in 0.0. only the bigger incursions increase income compared to 0,0 and wh space, and there you can't take the marauder.


Confirming that 5 people are now most. Roll

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
marVLs
#5508 - 2013-10-14 08:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
If they're designed to solo high class PVE then well... they won't work in lvl5 because Bastion dosn't have immunity to neuts.


Marauders need:

  • non stacking range bonuses in Bastion
  • more scan res
  • a little more locking range
  • bigger range bonus for torps in Bastion
  • neuts immunity in Bastion (or at least 50%)
  • +50 drone bays
  • better speed, more agile
  • better warp speed
  • a little more buffer
  • 600 rigs calibration or 3rd rig or +1 med(vargur, kronos,paladyn ) +1low slot (golem )instead of high slot
  • changing tractor bonus for something more usefull with new tractor structure (maybe bonus for salvager cycle, range and power)
  • automatically overheated guns when in bastion without taking heat damage
Brib Vogt
Doomheim
#5509 - 2013-10-14 08:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Brib Vogt
marVLs wrote:
If they're designed to solo high class PVE then well... they won't work in lvl5 because Bastion dosn't have immunity to neuts.


Marauders need:

  • non stacking range bonuses in Bastion
  • more scan res
  • more locking range
  • bigger range bonus for torps in Bastion
  • neuts immunity in Bastion (or at least 50%)
  • +50 drone bays
  • better speed, more agile
  • better warp speed
  • a little more buffer
  • 600 rigs calibration or 3rd rig or +1 med(vargur, kronos,paladyn ) +1low slot (golem )instead of high slot
  • changing tractor bonus for something more usefull with new tractor structure (maybe bonus for salvager cycle, range and power)
  • automatically overheated guns when in bastion without taking heat damage


You ask for too much but i underlined the things i see important.


  • Neuts immunity is not going to work. Neuting is not seen as E-War, otherwise you can't kill supers, carrier and dreads with a smaller gang. No one in PVP wants always to get a bunch of alpha snipers to kill a marauder.
  • Why is the tractor bonus not useful? I want to keep that bonus. Saves me a lot of time in missions. I will only use the new device in a 8 salvager fitted noctis.
  • Why buffer? For PVP or anti-gank protection?
  • Just remove one high slot and give a little cpu/PG to enhance the fittings. for example: a golem with t2 fitting has 3 empty highslots (without imp support)
  • as much as i would appreciate an increase in damage, just enhance damage application
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5510 - 2013-10-14 09:11:14 UTC
marVLs wrote:
  • 600 rigs calibration or 3rd rig or +1 med(vargur, kronos,paladyn ) +1low slot (golem )instead of high slot
  • automatically overheated guns when in bastion without taking heat damage
    • [/list]

    All T2s only get two rig slots (it's a T2 thing). The automatic overheat/absorb has been suggested a few times (still one of my favorite ideas).

    I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
    Zeljko Margeta
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #5511 - 2013-10-14 09:54:17 UTC
    Could you please do a mirror of the skill tree to Sisi so we can get our hands on the new Marauders?
    Since they have a new skill requirement and some of us were a bit eager to train it on Tranquility, it would be awesome if we could have a test run on Sisi Big smile
    marVLs
    #5512 - 2013-10-14 09:59:57 UTC
    Arthur Aihaken wrote:
    marVLs wrote:
  • 600 rigs calibration or 3rd rig or +1 med(vargur, kronos,paladyn ) +1low slot (golem )instead of high slot
  • automatically overheated guns when in bastion without taking heat damage
    • [/list]

    All T2s only get two rig slots (it's a T2 thing). The automatic overheat/absorb has been suggested a few times (still one of my favorite ideas).


    Two rig slots for T2 was explained by CCP that it's because those ships have T2 resists, well marauders don't have them at least at full ;)

    Aand yeah that overheating system would be awesome
    Vulfen
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #5513 - 2013-10-14 10:16:52 UTC
    marVLs wrote:
    Arthur Aihaken wrote:
    marVLs wrote:
  • 600 rigs calibration or 3rd rig or +1 med(vargur, kronos,paladyn ) +1low slot (golem )instead of high slot
  • automatically overheated guns when in bastion without taking heat damage
    • [/list]

    All T2s only get two rig slots (it's a T2 thing). The automatic overheat/absorb has been suggested a few times (still one of my favorite ideas).


    Two rig slots for T2 was explained by CCP that it's because those ships have T2 resists, well marauders don't have them at least at full ;)

    Aand yeah that overheating system would be awesome


    Considering that the ship opens up vents on the ship for extra cooling, the OH option would make sense with both the style of play and looks of the ship for pvp.

    As for more rigs, it would be nice to have them but to be in keeping with CCPs design of T2 ships it cannot go ahead.

    And they still need to look into the slot layout. nearly everyone is saying this
    DSpite Culhach
    #5514 - 2013-10-14 10:20:23 UTC
    Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
    baltec1 wrote:
    Arthur Aihaken wrote:
    Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
    ROFL, " but my mach is better at being a mach than these ships, F*** YOU CCP"

    Pretty sure the Mach is next in line for the nerf bat...


    It is.

    Which makes the whining all the sweeter.
    The funny thing is that ccp are effectively filling the marauders mouths full of chocolate and doing lovely things to their bottom halves.


    "... and doing lovely things to their bottom halves"

    I just got some really disturbing imagery then.

    I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
    Shivanthar
    #5515 - 2013-10-14 11:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
    In order to make Marauders more viable pve and pvp option is to fix its core problems:

    - Fixing scan resolution (%70 pvp, %30 pve)
    - Fixing sensor strength (%80 pvp, %20 pve)
    - T2 Resists (%50 pvp, %50 pve)

    - Just fixing these will make them more considerable option for pvp. They really needed nothing else.
    - Salvaging mechanics are already be taken care of so no problems there.
    - Remove mjd bonus. Put a cap recharge bonus per marauder level instead. (mwd+ab+active tank friendly)
    - For the bastion module (not mentioning falloff+optimal bonus);
    a - Reducing heat by ((marauders level * 16) + (high energy physics * 2)) percent. (makes 90 percent at most)
    b - Remove ewar immunity (went for constant sensor strength increase + scan res. instead)
    c - Remove mobility penalty.
    d - Remove local repair bonus while in bastion if it still has one in its current iteration.
    e - Powergrid boost is fine since it will give people more choices.
    f - Remove that extra +1 high. +1 med slot for ST marauders, and +1 low slot for AT marauders.

    What about this?

    _Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
    Desert Ice78
    Gryphons of the Western Wind
    #5516 - 2013-10-14 11:21:29 UTC
    Zeljko Margeta wrote:
    Could you please do a mirror of the skill tree to Sisi so we can get our hands on the new Marauders?
    Since they have a new skill requirement and some of us were a bit eager to train it on Tranquility, it would be awesome if we could have a test run on Sisi Big smile

    Log onto sisi, open moveme channel, type bastion.

    Enjoy.

    I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

    CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
    Ralph King-Griffin
    New Eden Tech Support
    #5517 - 2013-10-14 11:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
    Shivanthar wrote:
    In order to make Marauders more viable pve and pvp option is to fix its core problems:

    - Fixing scan resolution (%70 pvp, %30 pve)
    - Fixing sensor strength (%80 pvp, %20 pve)
    - T2 Resists (%50 pvp, %50 pve)

    - Just fixing these will make them more considerable option for pvp. They really needed nothing else.
    - Salvaging mechanics are already be taken care of so no problems there.
    - Remove mjd bonus. Put a cap recharge bonus per marauder level instead. (mwd+ab+active tank friendly)
    - For the bastion module (not mentioning falloff+optimal bonus);
    a - Reducing heat by ((marauders level * 16) + (high energy physics * 2)) percent. (makes 90 percent at most)
    b - Remove ewar immunity (went for constant sensor strength increase + scan res. instead)
    c - Remove mobility penalty.
    d - Remove local repair bonus while in bastion if it still has one in its current iteration.
    e - Powergrid boost is fine since it will give people more choices.
    f - Remove that extra +1 high. +1 med slot for ST marauders, and +1 low slot for AT marauders.

    What about this?


    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    current iteration is interesting, this isnt.

    Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

    =]|[=
    Edora Madullier
    French Kiss Singularity
    #5518 - 2013-10-14 11:46:49 UTC
    Shivanthar wrote:
    In order to make Marauders more viable pve and pvp option is to fix its core problems:

    - Fixing scan resolution (%70 pvp, %30 pve)
    - Fixing sensor strength (%80 pvp, %20 pve)
    - T2 Resists (%50 pvp, %50 pve)

    - Just fixing these will make them more considerable option for pvp. They really needed nothing else.
    - Salvaging mechanics are already be taken care of so no problems there.
    - Remove mjd bonus. Put a cap recharge bonus per marauder level instead. (mwd+ab+active tank friendly)
    - For the bastion module (not mentioning falloff+optimal bonus);
    a - Reducing heat by ((marauders level * 16) + (high energy physics * 2)) percent. (makes 90 percent at most)
    b - Remove ewar immunity (went for constant sensor strength increase + scan res. instead)
    c - Remove mobility penalty.
    d - Remove local repair bonus while in bastion if it still has one in its current iteration.
    e - Powergrid boost is fine since it will give people more choices.
    f - Remove that extra +1 high. +1 med slot for ST marauders, and +1 low slot for AT marauders.

    What about this?


    No. The current iteration, while far from being perfect, brings something unique with the MJD and range bonuses, not to mention the ewar immunity. Yours is just a slightly modified BS-sized Assault Ship with random bonuses.
    Although the Vargur (and maybe Golem too, I did not test it), suffers a bit from poor range with AC and poor DPS with arties. It may be a good idea to lower alpha and increase RoF with a special bonus on the Vargur.
    Shivanthar
    #5519 - 2013-10-14 11:50:39 UTC
    Ralph King-Griffin wrote:


    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    current iteration is interesting, this isnt.


    Can you please tell me, by side-by-side comparison, what makes it NOT interesting in my last proposal?

    And, exactly how you find an immobile sitting sniper platform more interesting while giving "ZZZZZZZ" to having mobility and more options?

    _Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
    Shivanthar
    #5520 - 2013-10-14 11:52:41 UTC
    Edora Madullier wrote:

    No. The current iteration, while far from being perfect, brings something unique with the MJD and range bonuses, not to mention the ewar immunity. Yours is just a slightly modified BS-sized Assault Ship with random bonuses.
    Although the Vargur (and maybe Golem too, I did not test it), suffers a bit from poor range with AC and poor DPS with arties. It may be a good idea to lower alpha and increase RoF with a special bonus on the Vargur.


    I didn't say anything about range bonuses, leaving only mjd bonus out.

    _Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.