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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Royal NASA
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#4201 - 2013-09-26 22:58:04 UTC
Hi my loving Capsules. It is i NASA Again!

I look forward to the changers of any ship(s).

I just thought saying what i think was ok in relation to changers to the Marauder ship(s).

And again i say please take into account time ratio plus cost ratio should also in pact a change to the above. that being the Marauder class ship(s).

I would like a blood red color or colour with shiny Gold strips on my Marauder ship.
Also 8 high 8 medium and 8 low slots.

if my thought offends you then I'm sorry for thinking.
so literate watching haters back off please.

with Kind Regards me NASA actual . out.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4202 - 2013-09-26 23:00:51 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:
Ok, after coming from work, I've just watched ccp announcement for winter expansion. I'm done with this subject. My attitude is changed to positive. CCP, whoever came with the idea to create a deployable platform that gets all the wrecks together, send my salutes to them. Now, I can play with my Marauder.

Period & Shivanthar out.


well, assuming the marauder can hold at least one...
Shivanthar
#4203 - 2013-09-26 23:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Joe Risalo wrote:

well, assuming the marauder can hold at least one...


They said in the video that this platform will make PVE players happy.

Considering Marauders are a specialized class of BS, and have the biggest(?) cargo hold within ships that can generate wrecks, I think they wouldn't tell in that way during the video if it won't be able to hold one ^.^

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4204 - 2013-09-26 23:17:36 UTC
The Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher is probably the most welcome change to the Marauders.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Project XXVIII
Midnight Oil Irregulars.
#4205 - 2013-09-27 00:58:13 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher is probably the most welcome change to the Marauders.


Provided the (Golem) Hull gets a bonus to said launchers,.. sure,.. otherwise,.. I dunno,..

Also this deployable "Scrounger" for lack of better terms,.. will be a wild card until I see how it works,.. what's the range, if it draws aggro.

As others have stated, if this module does essentially replace the need for tractor beams, will the tractor bonus on the Marauder hull be replaced with something else?

The picture of the "transformed" Kronos was interesting,.. I was just hoping for,.. I dunno,.. a little more,..
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4206 - 2013-09-27 01:03:01 UTC
Project XXVIII wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher is probably the most welcome change to the Marauders.


Provided the (Golem) Hull gets a bonus to said launchers,.. sure,.. otherwise,.. I dunno,..

Also this deployable "Scrounger" for lack of better terms,.. will be a wild card until I see how it works,.. what's the range, if it draws aggro.

As others have stated, if this module does essentially replace the need for tractor beams, will the tractor bonus on the Marauder hull be replaced with something else?

The picture of the "transformed" Kronos was interesting,.. I was just hoping for,.. I dunno,.. a little more,..



Yeah, that Kronos looked kinda cool, but it didn't really TRANSFORM...
It's more like a pop out camper...
Doesn't really transform, it just kinda looks a little different...
Project XXVIII
Midnight Oil Irregulars.
#4207 - 2013-09-27 02:15:32 UTC
The Djego wrote:
It is not dps, it is damage application(especially against mobile sub BS targets at medium range in pvp), speed of the hulls(the raven and cnr changes gone a long way to fix it) and fitting(what is to restrictive for close range weapon system on the hulls to fit tank + gank properly).


When initially they posted a +25% to missile velocity,.. I thought to myself,.. for torps that's great,.. I get roughly 40km effective with T1 Torps,.. this 25% will be awesome,..

But in actuality, it just tacked on about 5km,.. or thereabout. Which would make it roughly in game what EFT/Pyfa/Neocom tells me my range should be on paper (roughly 45km). Make Torps out to 60km and I'd be raging with a nerd hard on.

Of course there ARE rumours that missiles will be getting tracking computers,.. which both intrigues and scares me. Missiles/Torps that miss fills me with dread,.. an extended range to Torps,.. now that I can get behind. Finding some midslots to add said module,.. hmmm,.. Ugh
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4208 - 2013-09-27 02:21:22 UTC
Project XXVIII wrote:
The Djego wrote:
It is not dps, it is damage application(especially against mobile sub BS targets at medium range in pvp), speed of the hulls(the raven and cnr changes gone a long way to fix it) and fitting(what is to restrictive for close range weapon system on the hulls to fit tank + gank properly).


When initially they posted a +25% to missile velocity,.. I thought to myself,.. for torps that's great,.. I get roughly 40km effective with T1 Torps,.. this 25% will be awesome,..

But in actuality, it just tacked on about 5km,.. or thereabout. Which would make it roughly in game what EFT/Pyfa/Neocom tells me my range should be on paper (roughly 45km). Make Torps out to 60km and I'd be raging with a nerd hard on.

Of course there ARE rumours that missiles will be getting tracking computers,.. which both intrigues and scares me. Missiles/Torps that miss fills me with dread,.. an extended range to Torps,.. now that I can get behind. Finding some midslots to add said module,.. hmmm,.. Ugh

On a golem with t2 range rigs you can get around 65km with javelin torps.
That's enough to do missions stationary...
Project XXVIII
Midnight Oil Irregulars.
#4209 - 2013-09-27 03:01:25 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

On a golem with t2 range rigs you can get around 65km with javelin torps.
That's enough to do missions stationary...

With Javs yes, but I am one to just use T1s. I am finding though that I seem to be a minority in playing this way. Is 65km the "actual in game range" or what fitting programs claim you should get?

And really, with the DPS drop for using Javs, wouldn't fitting Cruises with Fury get you better range, DPS and a very similar blast radius?
stoicfaux
#4210 - 2013-09-27 03:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Project XXVIII wrote:

And really, with the DPS drop for using Javs, wouldn't fitting Cruises with Fury get you better range, DPS and a very similar blast radius?

Yup, and T1s as well. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3640995#post3640995

Torp Golem with 2xHBT2s (missile speed):
javelin: 785 DPS to ~64km
er 337m, ev, 133m/s

t1: 872 dps out to ~42km
er 337m, ev, 133m/s

Fury: 906 dps out to ~166km
er 272m, ev 109m/s


edit: added T1

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4211 - 2013-09-27 03:21:09 UTC
Project XXVIII wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

On a golem with t2 range rigs you can get around 65km with javelin torps.
That's enough to do missions stationary...

With Javs yes, but I am one to just use T1s. I am finding though that I seem to be a minority in playing this way. Is 65km the "actual in game range" or what fitting programs claim you should get?

And really, with the DPS drop for using Javs, wouldn't fitting Cruises with Fury get you better range, DPS and a very similar blast radius?


In range you'll get an easy 55km.. Maybe more, but against mission bss you should get at least 55.
Now, you are correct that cruise missiles can so more dps with better application at much greater range.
This is why I wrote a comment earlier(probably on the last page) stating that if you're not using a cruise golem, you're missing out.
Both fits I built were intended for stationary mission killing.
The cruise golem had 3 times the range with dps that was less than 100 dps that of a rage torp golem.

I've always felt that all missile systems needed to fall in line with that of hams and torps, that meaning the long range ammo does less damage but better application.
However, if this is not the way CCP wants it, then I am happy doing 1015 dps with my golem fit at max targeting range and then some.

I'll would be ok if CCP swapped long range missiles in this manner, but if they just straight nerf cruise missiles, I'll probably burn Jita.
That said, while the bastion module does make torps more viable in pve, it is more designed with cruise in mind...
Personally, the range buff with the golem Is useless outside of POS bashing, as with my skills I can already hit 166km on paper, and I can't even target that far.
Blurtmaster
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4212 - 2013-09-27 03:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Blurtmaster
Moving around with the vargur and being flexible was the best thing about it IMO.
When we took out 6 capitals being able to move around with precision, was the vargur key.
Not sure MJD would be of _any_ use as you need the 5-10km precision in distancing yourself to the target.

And making them so similar in bonuses - and web range so short .... super boring. Cant they have a unique bonus per race?

Diversify them
Web bonus range on one
Speed bonus on one
cap bonus on one
Make one a glass cannon
or Be Creative!



And Yes:
#19Posted: 2013.08.29 20:00 | Report
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Why not have the Bastion module just use Tactical Weapons Reconfiguration?


Streamlining everything will make EVE a very boring game Mkay.
Some Name
KULT Production
#4213 - 2013-09-27 03:35:50 UTC
reballancing?
i just see the crippling of an old and good ship.

plz dont change them, or at least not that frankensteinway.
make _-_black marauders_-_ for your monstrosseuss changes.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#4214 - 2013-09-27 05:02:46 UTC
Well, Nov 19th is 7 weeks away.

Given that CCP has to lock down code at least a week before the 19th, we are now facing 6 weeks before code lockdown.
And of course, we have heard nothing from the devs in weeks on the next set of changes.

How many actually believe Raivi' comments on Twitch TV about how the devs are reading these comments but not responding, because they are busy.

What we will end up with is the current set of crap ideas for the Marauder dumped onto Sisi in about 2 weeks, and then CCP will ignore the feedback, a la the drone disaster, and the garbage we see now as the proposed changes will be what we get stuck with on Nov 19th.

Why can't the nulldevs actually get the balls to say, "look, we hate high sec, we want to see it gone, and this is how we are doing it, so accept it or quit".
NiteNinja
Doomheim
#4215 - 2013-09-27 05:10:39 UTC
Vivi Udan wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Lair Osen wrote:
NiteNinja wrote:


Ever try fitting Estamels Modified Torpedo launchers, 4x CN BCS's, and overloading the lot with max missile skills? 1703.1 DPS.

http://imageshack.us/a/img853/8519/0n2a.jpg

Edit: Imported fit to EFT: http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8015/dqxz.png


Where's my locator agent?....

But seriously, who Overloads for PvE??


Better yet, who overloads when their ship and fit worth over 10 billion (probably) relies on those modules working...
I wouldn't risk flying that expensive of a ship, and I sure as hell wouldn't risk overloading anything on it.

I would stay aligned, with an MJD and be ready to GTFO in a moments notice... Even if I was running a lvl 1 mission, lol


Eve-Central says it's worth approximately $12.6 billion. That's one hell of a shiny loot pinata. I suggest you don't undock anytime soon. And, assuming your character 'NiteNinja' is flying that ship, unless you designed that character from day one to fly the Golem, I would guess the character needs more skills trained before flying that shiny of a ship.

But ConranAntoni IT"S SO SHINY. Big smile


Yeah I'm pretty much strictly in Core, Missiles, Shields, and Marauders V.

And you can overload faction modules for way longer with Thermodynamics V than T1/T2 modules, so they're practical when you just want to bulldoze every mission. Flown that ship for over a year without ganks or poblems (Fly smart) and considering I won't be on EVE for another 3 months or so because of a client issue, I figured I might as well make my fit semi-public since it'll change in November anyway and I'll be forced to fly another ship to keep up my efficiency between wardecs.
Iome Ambraelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4216 - 2013-09-27 06:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Iome Ambraelle
If I understand the new loot grabber, I guess you would drop one of these in the middle of a wreck cloud and have it tractor things in and loot them leaving a pile of empty wrecks to salvage. I see at least one problem with the general idea: aren't wrecks collidable objects? Won't this cause some issues as the wrecks start to pile up? How are you supposed to get to the structure to empty/reclaim it if the thing is surrounded by wrecks?

So you would fit 3-4 non-bonused salvager II modules and maybe add a flight of salvage drones into the mix? What kind of range are we talking about on the beams? Can you repackage the structure and move it to the next room of the mission? Not only will you have to return to the structure to retrieve your loot, you'd have to stay right next to it to salvage effectively. I'm not sure how big an upside you're going to get. If they just made regular tractor beams auto loot wrecks and containers once they are within loot range, it would be far better.

I have a counter proposal.

Salvage Drone Hive I

  • Inherits deploying pilot's drone control range modified by skills but NOT ship fittings
  • Inherits deploying pilot's salvage drone operation skill bonus
  • Hive Neural Core increases base salvage drone difficulty by 2/lvl of whatever skill is required by the module
  • 25mb drone bandwidth
  • 125m3 drone bay
  • 200m3 salvage storage bay
  • Replaces destroyed drones automatically unless operation is suspended

There are two benefits I see to this approach over the loot grabber. First, some players care more for the loot, others care more about the salvage. This depends heavily on what is being looted and salvaged. The hive would offer a convenient way for pilots to salvage while actually running the mission without dealing with the loot if they don't want to. However if a player only wants the loot, they can fit their tractor beams and continue on as they do today. No real change to mission running habits.

Second, it provides a nice bonus to salvage time which is usually far more time consuming than moving the wreck into salvage range. Especially when using salvage drones with their max 13% access difficulty bonus. The hive would allow drones to reach 23% which is still 2% less than T1 salvager modules at max skills and no rigs.

Shield Tanking - Why armor tanking can't have nice things.
Daenna Chrysi
Omega Foundry Unit
Southern Legion Alliance
#4217 - 2013-09-27 09:04:11 UTC
The new auto tractoring structure is going to make the tractor beam bonus on marauders obsolete, would be more efficient if the marauders got enough room to drop one or more of the structures instead of the salvaging bonuses they have now.
Mole Guy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4218 - 2013-09-27 09:14:00 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:

as far as ive seen, they added the mjd bonus. you dont have to use it. but...if you did, you could jump every minute for better position. a paly with mega pulse in bastion can have up too 120km range with scorch and nasty tracking. by the time someone gets there, yer ready to jump away and do it again.

now, if u want close in, dont use bastion. throw some tackle on it, enjoy the 400k EHP and shoot all kinds of crap to death.
the mjd, especially for missions running, will be a freakin handy thing. you can bounce out of range of the rats. then reign death and destruction down on them. for fighting sanctum rats, warp in at 50k then jump strait up. everything will be dead before you start taking damage.

pointed by sleepers or incursion rats and being killed? mjd and warp. they dont scram, they point. mjd works through that.
align towards the warp point, mjd and warp. once u land, hit warp and yer gone.

the marauder play style you are asking about is about dictating range. i will mjd out and start firing back at you. you have the choice to try to make it to me through mega pulse 100km, or warping. if u do make it, i will mjd back or somewhere else.
the ability to jump 100k every minute is a scary thing.


I agree with you @scary part. You can find a lot of creative uses with that. As I posted at least thrice, you can do that with a sentry drone ship. I also have a Typhoon Fleet Issue that has nearly NO tank and also has a mjd on it. It doesn't tank, because there is no incoming damage. :) But that is a playstyle of a sentry drone ship/sniper. I wouldn't bother with getting loot with that ship.

However, while they are adding bonus to web/mjd, they're removing shield boost buff. So, without sacrificing my applied damage, I don't know how will I reach 400k ehp you mentioned? O.o My boost bonus will be crap, so I will need a SBA in order to compansate, which will cause me leaving my TP, again reducing my applied damage.

So, if balancing marauders means making them a good long range sniper, so be it. I will adapt to that. I just tried to tell there are already available ships for that role, exluding mjd bonus. Other than that, I don't see any "improvement" on my mission running with current proposal.

All I see is a nerf (at least for Vargur).

i went and read the link you gave.
lemme ask a question.

if there are some that really do this, i dont know about them, but can you name 1 NPC in eve that has scram capability? i get pointed all the time, but i dont know if i have ever been "scrammed" or not.
if the answer is no, then how in the world will you be trapped by a frigate with mjd on your ship?

if they get in too close, you finish the outer ones off, then lock the close frigs and mjd out, deploy and smoke em.
1 minute later, you mjd to the new deployable tractor beam and collect the loot, then salvage the field.

folks are missing the fact that mjd are immune to points. eve infi-points form my hics.
i will retract my statement if you can show me a rat that scrams...i simply dont know of any.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#4219 - 2013-09-27 09:27:10 UTC
i just wanna go on record saying that in my honest opinion, any mechanic design decision that end in:

'yahh just give it total immunity...'

is a f**king **** poor 3am, 'i dont wanna work i just wanna go home and get some sleep' decision that shouldnt be implemented in a serious sandbox style game like Eve Online.

So in that regard dont give bastion mode 'total' ewar immunity, just bump sensor strength of the ship to something trending towards 'effective' ewar immunity.
marVLs
#4220 - 2013-09-27 09:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
No matter what You do with them until they wont have at least so much DPS as Pirate BS's they will be still useless...

Not only my opinion, today i was on coms with about 50peps, and they talk about it, and guess what? no one of them will use marauders because of lower DPS than Pirate and Navy BS's. That's sad but true What?


Marauders start to have more and more useless bonuses, like now tractor bonus (useless because of tractor tower comming in Rubicon). Nothing matters as much as gank.