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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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marVLs
#4061 - 2013-09-24 19:23:09 UTC
Hmmm TP bonus on Golem seems useless at least for lvl4s. There's no sense using torps when we got awesome cruise missiles, You fit rigors in rigs, kill BS's with Fury's, Cruisers and BC's die from one volley with t1 ammo...
Apo Lamperouge
#4062 - 2013-09-24 19:25:05 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Apo Lamperouge wrote:
Nyu Kaminari wrote:


Giving additional medium or low slots to be in line with the Tier 3 fittings for BS would solve a lot of complaints by it' self .
of course power grid changes provided look very promising as well as any CPU adjustments that may be needed along with capacitor. It has allowed for example: The paladin to actually fit it's Tach's along with a better repairer & MWD / MJD.



I have no fitting issues with t2 tachs with a deadspace large armor repper, mission hardeners, MJD and ~980 dps.
I would love to have an additional low slot for a t2 1600mm plate, but what can you do? I think what I would love to have most is heightened cap regen for extra repper pulsing or a badass tracking bonus and lose web and tractor beam bonus altogether.





I have the same general feeling about the golem.
You pretty much have to use 2 target painters and a cap booster.
This leaves 4 mids for tank.. Golem can't use torps in lvl 4's anymore thanks to torp range nerfs last year.
They can with bastion, but why would you when you can use the rigs for damge mods and just fit cruise missiles.
Anyway, with MJD you now have 3 mids left for tank....
I would much rather drop the 8th high and instead, get an 8th mid.
I would gladly exchange a salvager for the bastion, but there is no way in hell I would exchange a tank, TP, or cap booster for an MJD... It's just not worth it, expecially on the golem.

Also, some kind of bonus to cap regen or shield booster cap usage in bastion would be awesome, expecially if we aren't immune to cap warfare.
However, since we can't receive cap in bastion, we should be immune to cap war.



Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about. Every body plays this ship differently. The Professor of Salvage earlier plays one way, I play mine (BTW I wasn't asking for Salvage 201, I think I understand how to use salvage drones). Each ship has it's advantages to fittings than others. The whole Bastion Concept has now left the realm of "ok let's wait and see" to "oh please don't f**k it up further".

Crazy idea; make a Tech 3 battleship.

I mean come on don't you think by now the Sleeper technology could be modified to suit battleship technology? In the real world, Grumman or Mcdonnell Douglas would have applied these technologies to every plane they make. Let's face it. Tech 3 works. It's time to stop messing around with changing existing boats, and create a new class.

Covert Config-interdiction nullified hyperion? Super sensor strength-overheat resist abaddon? Drone scoped-wake linited typhoon? I don't know come on it's gotta be better than this debacle they are making.

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.
Apo Lamperouge
#4063 - 2013-09-24 19:29:04 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Meanwhile, elsewhere...

Watch the birdy! (and don't mind what they're going to do to your Marauder).

I swear that my first impression was: "Huh? Another Star Citizen ship?" But then, what's the point to have a Cool (TM) bastion mode animation, when your skill-intensive and expensive marauder has been nerfu***d into a unpresentable pile of manure?


Wow. My tax dollars at work. Booooooooooooring. Back to the drawing board please.

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#4064 - 2013-09-24 20:10:22 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alright, ran some more tests on our internal servers with suggested changes.

Feedback suggested I ran Buzzkill or Worlds Collide without the web bonus on the Kronos to see how well the ship fared. Challenge accepted. Needless to say it was a slaughter. For the NPCs that is P


KRONOMNOMNOS:

High:
4x Neutron Blaster Cannon II
1x Salvager II
2x Small Tractor Beams II
1x Bastion transformerthingie™ Module

Med:
1x Large Micro Jump Drive
1x 100mn Microwarpdrive II
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II (5x Cap Booster 800)
1x Tracking Computer II (Optimal range or Tracking speed scripts)

Low:
1x Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
2x Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
3x Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
1x Tracking Enhancer II

Rigs:
1x Large Hybrid Ambit Extension I
1x Large Hybrid Burst Aerator I

Drones: 5x Warrior II - you don't need them anyway. Might as well be Peanut Butter II drones for that matter.


With the Tracking Computer II running with range script, I get 1220 DPS with turrets alone at 6.7km Range + 41.2km Falloff on Federation Navy Antimatter, or 973 DPS at 18.82km + 57.6km with Null Shocked Yes, yes, that's theoretical falloff damage, but I think that's good enough to compete with Pirate Battleships. You also have MWD + MJD combo to get in range of anything.





[list]
  • Paladin with Megapulses and Scorch: 817 DPS at 92km range +21km Falloff. Or 1025 DPS at 31km range +21km falloff with Imperial Navy Multifreq.
  • Paladin with Tachyons and Navy Multifreq: 969 DPS at 67km range + 52 Falloff.
  • Golem with Fury Cruises: 946 DPS at 208km range (with rigs, they have 361m explosion radius, 125m/s explosion velocity and 13km/s velocity) Or 776 DPS with Navy Cruises.
  • Golem with Caldari Navy Torps: 1002 DPS at 37km range (they have 243m explosion radius, 133.125 m/s explosion velocity and 4.2km/s velocity)
  • Vargur with 800mm autocannons II with Republic Fleet EMP: 955 DPS at 4km range + 68.8km falloff
  • Vargur with 1400mm artilleries, with Republic Fleet EMP: 720DPS at 43km range+134km falloff

    • s[/url].


    The dps in theory might look nice but the paladin still has a huge problem that it can't change its damage type so the dps is going to be alot lower then you are fighting a faction like angel cartel.
    Also the dps is only at optimal and since there are plenty of missions and sites where the range to the npc's are alot further then that the real dps is alot lower aswell.

    The best way to test this really is to release it on the test server so that more people who are perhapse and most likely more experienced in using the type of ships can test this module.

    Having 1220 dps on a kronos is rather pointless if its only at 6km range when your ship cant move.
    I still would be better of using a rattlesnake with sentry drones, stable dps no ammo and about the same if not higher at the same range.
    A rattlesnake can get about 1050dps at 44km optimal range, the optimal range is set by the garde's, also this ship has no issues at all to tank any mission at all and probably no problems in tanking most escalations either.
    TheFace Asano
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #4065 - 2013-09-24 20:11:37 UTC
    Cade Windstalker wrote:
    ... post continued due to character limits.


    Not going to reply to each one, it will take too much time.

    You are only focusing on mission running, and that is it. These ships will be kill-able in high, low and null sec with enough alpha. The rep bonus will not save them. What this means is by using the bastion module, you are committing yourself to the field just like a siege module. This should be worth it, not a measly 25 percent range bonus. I will not put myself into a ship that will not be able to escape or dock before a hot-drop / fleet / high-sec gank can easily kill me through alpha, or at least give me the chance of escape.

    There is quite a bit of fleet pvp talk in your posts, but without some form of power creep there is no reason to field these over a standard or faction bs or tech 1 bs fleet for pvp as tacklers will be able to close on you and lock you down before you can MJD a second time, or you won't be receiving RR so you will die to extremely high alpha because unlike a dread, you do not have a large pool (read millions) of hit-points to buffer you. If you want a large amount of extra power field a dread instead, it will cost 2 times as much or more than the marauder, but it will bring some pain, just as you have described.

    What purpose are these hulls supposed to fill? I personally feel they should be the logical step in between a BS and a Dread. This doesn't mean that CCP or anyone else will or should agree. The rest of the BS hulls are capped on dps and application at a certain point, it would be nice to have something that takes dps up a notch. The T3 cruisers and HACs and pirate can both do this for the cruiser hulls, as can the Assault frigs and pirate frigs for the frigate sized hulls. Command ships increase damage (in most cases) above the T1 counterparts as well. This is only a natural progression. As of now the Marauder does not do this in the same fashion. It is the logical battleship sized HAC. If CCP doesn't want this, it's no skin of my back, I just won't fly it as faction and pirate already do extremely well in pve activities. For fleet pvp corps/alliances have doctrines, so you just fly the doctrine ship. For small gang, you just don't bring a bs anyway.

    Now the hulls themselves without bastion are descent enough, but they really only save you on ammo and allow you to salvage while playing. I don't enjoy salvaging, so I don't really do it. They have some advantage against their T1 counterparts, but again there isn't really a focus (other than pve which ccp says they want to expand the role into pvp for these hulls). Ball is in there court, hopefully we will get an update after this Thursday's expansion announcement.
    Shivanthar
    #4066 - 2013-09-24 21:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
    I really read a lot of posts here, since my Marauder is my only real enjoyment in this game.

    In the end, you'll end up with this on PvP side:

    A very expensive ship, that boosts itself when changed: Absolutely crap. During a fleet battle, if I mjd away and hit bastion, I will be locked for 1 min right? Now, somebody tell me, especially for the guys who have used interceptors. With a price tag of billion(s), and having ehp of a over-average bs, wouldn't a Marauder be your first priority?
    If you really up for it, how many seconds will it take to get nearby of a bastion-Marauder? I count 25 is enough. Within 45 seconds at best, any interceptor can bring their fleet as much as 50km away of a Marauder, who is still locked on its place. With very little ehp, and unable to get logi support, 10 man fleet's F1 will turn a Marauder into dust within seconds, who hasn't shot his guns 4th time yet :P My math may be wrong here, not counting RoF bonus etc... Let's say 5th shot. You're paying billions to go into a stationary mode which risks you dying in 1 minute, without even shooting much. Sounds very fun isn't it?

    PvE side:
    In many of my previous posts, I mentioned this a lot. For Vargur, even it is buffed to a degree which won't affect it when fitting mjd and ab/mwd together, you will loose boost buff. In order to fight safe, you will have to go into bastion to get resists. So you MUST play sniper. All the time. It will slow mission completion time. For whole 3 years, during fleet pve, I haven't seen any sniper BS in lvl 4 mission, that had surprassed 1:4 ratio of ship killing of my Vargur. For every 4 foes I kill, I hear a big boom, killing a foe, if not missed. So, if you were completing a mission in let's say 45 minutes including salvaging. I can clearly estimate its new completion time as close to or more than 3 hours including salvaging. Don't laugh on this, I will hear you cry here after it goes live :D

    All I'm trying to do is saving my marauder as a mission runner. Otherwise it will be going down in flames :P

    I will repeat myself here: This is not that ship! Do you want to hear which ship would be best for this role in Minmatar? A T2 maelstrom hull BS. Being already a good sniper platform, it will fit this role much better than Tempest platform, for example.
    On other factions, I'm not sure, their Marauder pilots can give tons of advices for their precious ones.

    _Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
    Sigras
    Conglomo
    #4067 - 2013-09-24 22:59:23 UTC
    Shivanthar wrote:
    I really read a lot of posts here, since my Marauder is my only real enjoyment in this game.

    In the end, you'll end up with this on PvP side:

    A very expensive ship, that boosts itself when changed: Absolutely crap. During a fleet battle, if I mjd away and hit bastion, I will be locked for 1 min right? Now, somebody tell me, especially for the guys who have used interceptors. With a price tag of billion(s), and having ehp of a over-average bs, wouldn't a Marauder be your first priority?
    If you really up for it, how many seconds will it take to get nearby of a bastion-Marauder? I count 25 is enough. Within 45 seconds at best, any interceptor can bring their fleet as much as 50km away of a Marauder, who is still locked on its place. With very little ehp, and unable to get logi support, 10 man fleet's F1 will turn a Marauder into dust within seconds, who hasn't shot his guns 4th time yet :P My math may be wrong here, not counting RoF bonus etc... Let's say 5th shot. You're paying billions to go into a stationary mode which risks you dying in 1 minute, without even shooting much. Sounds very fun isn't it?

    Who on earth said you HAD to use bastion mode for PvP? If you're stupid enough to dorp into bastion mode in that situation you deserve to lose your ship.

    How about you use your MWD to run away while sniping at them from 100 km then MJD away whenever anyone gets close? I would like un-bubble-able hard to catch sniper battleships plez

    The fact that you're not creative enough to use the ship in PvP doesnt make them bad ships.

    Shivanthar wrote:
    PvE side:
    In many of my previous posts, I mentioned this a lot. For Vargur, even it is buffed to a degree which won't affect it when fitting mjd and ab/mwd together, you will loose boost buff. In order to fight safe, you will have to go into bastion to get resists. So you MUST play sniper. All the time. It will slow mission completion time. For whole 3 years, during fleet pve, I haven't seen any sniper BS in lvl 4 mission, that had surprassed 1:4 ratio of ship killing of my Vargur. For every 4 foes I kill, I hear a big boom, killing a foe, if not missed. So, if you were completing a mission in let's say 45 minutes including salvaging. I can clearly estimate its new completion time as close to or more than 3 hours including salvaging. Don't laugh on this, I will hear you cry here after it goes live :D

    All I'm trying to do is saving my marauder as a mission runner. Otherwise it will be going down in flames :P

    I will repeat myself here: This is not that ship! Do you want to hear which ship would be best for this role in Minmatar? A T2 maelstrom hull BS. Being already a good sniper platform, it will fit this role much better than Tempest platform, for example.
    On other factions, I'm not sure, their Marauder pilots can give tons of advices for their precious ones.

    There are so many things wrong with this I dont even know where to start . . .

    First of all, again why do you HAVE to fit a MJD to your PvE setup? If it benefits you, then do it; if it doesnt benefit you, then dont.

    Second, what in the holy LOL why are you running a fleet for level 4 missions? It is far more effective to run individual level 4s separately.

    Lastly; how is it even conceivable that you are having trouble tanking level 4s in a vargur? I tank level 4s in a shield tanked dominix, and in fact, I tank level 4s in an armor tanked domi with 3 damage mods! If you have to resort to using sniper tactics to stay alive in a level 4, youre seriously doing something wrong.
    Joe Risalo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #4068 - 2013-09-24 23:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
    Sigras wrote:
    Shivanthar wrote:
    I really read a lot of posts here, since my Marauder is my only real enjoyment in this game.

    In the end, you'll end up with this on PvP side:

    A very expensive ship, that boosts itself when changed: Absolutely crap. During a fleet battle, if I mjd away and hit bastion, I will be locked for 1 min right? Now, somebody tell me, especially for the guys who have used interceptors. With a price tag of billion(s), and having ehp of a over-average bs, wouldn't a Marauder be your first priority?
    If you really up for it, how many seconds will it take to get nearby of a bastion-Marauder? I count 25 is enough. Within 45 seconds at best, any interceptor can bring their fleet as much as 50km away of a Marauder, who is still locked on its place. With very little ehp, and unable to get logi support, 10 man fleet's F1 will turn a Marauder into dust within seconds, who hasn't shot his guns 4th time yet :P My math may be wrong here, not counting RoF bonus etc... Let's say 5th shot. You're paying billions to go into a stationary mode which risks you dying in 1 minute, without even shooting much. Sounds very fun isn't it?

    Who on earth said you HAD to use bastion mode for PvP? If you're stupid enough to dorp into bastion mode in that situation you deserve to lose your ship.

    How about you use your MWD to run away while sniping at them from 100 km then MJD away whenever anyone gets close? I would like un-bubble-able hard to catch sniper battleships plez

    The fact that you're not creative enough to use the ship in PvP doesnt make them bad ships.

    Shivanthar wrote:
    PvE side:
    In many of my previous posts, I mentioned this a lot. For Vargur, even it is buffed to a degree which won't affect it when fitting mjd and ab/mwd together, you will loose boost buff. In order to fight safe, you will have to go into bastion to get resists. So you MUST play sniper. All the time. It will slow mission completion time. For whole 3 years, during fleet pve, I haven't seen any sniper BS in lvl 4 mission, that had surprassed 1:4 ratio of ship killing of my Vargur. For every 4 foes I kill, I hear a big boom, killing a foe, if not missed. So, if you were completing a mission in let's say 45 minutes including salvaging. I can clearly estimate its new completion time as close to or more than 3 hours including salvaging. Don't laugh on this, I will hear you cry here after it goes live :D

    All I'm trying to do is saving my marauder as a mission runner. Otherwise it will be going down in flames :P

    I will repeat myself here: This is not that ship! Do you want to hear which ship would be best for this role in Minmatar? A T2 maelstrom hull BS. Being already a good sniper platform, it will fit this role much better than Tempest platform, for example.
    On other factions, I'm not sure, their Marauder pilots can give tons of advices for their precious ones.

    There are so many things wrong with this I dont even know where to start . . .

    First of all, again why do you HAVE to fit a MJD to your PvE setup? If it benefits you, then do it; if it doesnt benefit you, then dont.

    Second, what in the holy LOL why are you running a fleet for level 4 missions? It is far more effective to run individual level 4s separately.

    Lastly; how is it even conceivable that you are having trouble tanking level 4s in a vargur? I tank level 4s in a shield tanked dominix, and in fact, I tank level 4s in an armor tanked domi with 3 damage mods! If you have to resort to using sniper tactics to stay alive in a level 4, youre seriously doing something wrong.



    The golem has problems tanking lvl 4's if you're using an x-l booster.
    This is because of the terrible cap.
    Even with a x-type, with a large cap booster, you still will cap out in like 1min 20 seconds or so...
    My nightmare does way better on cap, and it's a freaking laser boat.
    And i'm talking about with t2 tachs on it, x-l shield booster, tracking computer, 3 active resists, and a large cap booster.

    Edit..
    Oh, and it's got a massive sig.
    NPCs pound the hell out of you, and when I used to fly it as a torp boat, it got bounded and a large shield booster came no where near keeping up.
    Garviel Tarrant
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #4069 - 2013-09-25 01:00:04 UTC
    Joe Risalo wrote:
    Sigras wrote:
    Shivanthar wrote:
    I really read a lot of posts here, since my Marauder is my only real enjoyment in this game.

    In the end, you'll end up with this on PvP side:

    A very expensive ship, that boosts itself when changed: Absolutely crap. During a fleet battle, if I mjd away and hit bastion, I will be locked for 1 min right? Now, somebody tell me, especially for the guys who have used interceptors. With a price tag of billion(s), and having ehp of a over-average bs, wouldn't a Marauder be your first priority?
    If you really up for it, how many seconds will it take to get nearby of a bastion-Marauder? I count 25 is enough. Within 45 seconds at best, any interceptor can bring their fleet as much as 50km away of a Marauder, who is still locked on its place. With very little ehp, and unable to get logi support, 10 man fleet's F1 will turn a Marauder into dust within seconds, who hasn't shot his guns 4th time yet :P My math may be wrong here, not counting RoF bonus etc... Let's say 5th shot. You're paying billions to go into a stationary mode which risks you dying in 1 minute, without even shooting much. Sounds very fun isn't it?

    Who on earth said you HAD to use bastion mode for PvP? If you're stupid enough to dorp into bastion mode in that situation you deserve to lose your ship.

    How about you use your MWD to run away while sniping at them from 100 km then MJD away whenever anyone gets close? I would like un-bubble-able hard to catch sniper battleships plez

    The fact that you're not creative enough to use the ship in PvP doesnt make them bad ships.

    Shivanthar wrote:
    PvE side:
    In many of my previous posts, I mentioned this a lot. For Vargur, even it is buffed to a degree which won't affect it when fitting mjd and ab/mwd together, you will loose boost buff. In order to fight safe, you will have to go into bastion to get resists. So you MUST play sniper. All the time. It will slow mission completion time. For whole 3 years, during fleet pve, I haven't seen any sniper BS in lvl 4 mission, that had surprassed 1:4 ratio of ship killing of my Vargur. For every 4 foes I kill, I hear a big boom, killing a foe, if not missed. So, if you were completing a mission in let's say 45 minutes including salvaging. I can clearly estimate its new completion time as close to or more than 3 hours including salvaging. Don't laugh on this, I will hear you cry here after it goes live :D

    All I'm trying to do is saving my marauder as a mission runner. Otherwise it will be going down in flames :P

    I will repeat myself here: This is not that ship! Do you want to hear which ship would be best for this role in Minmatar? A T2 maelstrom hull BS. Being already a good sniper platform, it will fit this role much better than Tempest platform, for example.
    On other factions, I'm not sure, their Marauder pilots can give tons of advices for their precious ones.

    There are so many things wrong with this I dont even know where to start . . .

    First of all, again why do you HAVE to fit a MJD to your PvE setup? If it benefits you, then do it; if it doesnt benefit you, then dont.

    Second, what in the holy LOL why are you running a fleet for level 4 missions? It is far more effective to run individual level 4s separately.

    Lastly; how is it even conceivable that you are having trouble tanking level 4s in a vargur? I tank level 4s in a shield tanked dominix, and in fact, I tank level 4s in an armor tanked domi with 3 damage mods! If you have to resort to using sniper tactics to stay alive in a level 4, youre seriously doing something wrong.



    The golem has problems tanking lvl 4's if you're using an x-l booster.
    This is because of the terrible cap.
    Even with a x-type, with a large cap booster, you still will cap out in like 1min 20 seconds or so...
    My nightmare does way better on cap, and it's a freaking laser boat.
    And i'm talking about with t2 tachs on it, x-l shield booster, tracking computer, 3 active resists, and a large cap booster.

    Edit..
    Oh, and it's got a massive sig.
    NPCs pound the hell out of you, and when I used to fly it as a torp boat, it got bounded and a large shield booster came no where near keeping up.



    Problems... tanking a lvl 4?

    Mate, i think you're doing it wrong..

    BYDI recruitment closed-ish

    NiteNinja
    Doomheim
    #4070 - 2013-09-25 01:16:18 UTC
    Garviel Tarrant wrote:
    Joe Risalo wrote:
    Sigras wrote:
    Shivanthar wrote:
    I really read a lot of posts here, since my Marauder is my only real enjoyment in this game.

    In the end, you'll end up with this on PvP side:

    A very expensive ship, that boosts itself when changed: Absolutely crap. During a fleet battle, if I mjd away and hit bastion, I will be locked for 1 min right? Now, somebody tell me, especially for the guys who have used interceptors. With a price tag of billion(s), and having ehp of a over-average bs, wouldn't a Marauder be your first priority?
    If you really up for it, how many seconds will it take to get nearby of a bastion-Marauder? I count 25 is enough. Within 45 seconds at best, any interceptor can bring their fleet as much as 50km away of a Marauder, who is still locked on its place. With very little ehp, and unable to get logi support, 10 man fleet's F1 will turn a Marauder into dust within seconds, who hasn't shot his guns 4th time yet :P My math may be wrong here, not counting RoF bonus etc... Let's say 5th shot. You're paying billions to go into a stationary mode which risks you dying in 1 minute, without even shooting much. Sounds very fun isn't it?

    Who on earth said you HAD to use bastion mode for PvP? If you're stupid enough to dorp into bastion mode in that situation you deserve to lose your ship.

    How about you use your MWD to run away while sniping at them from 100 km then MJD away whenever anyone gets close? I would like un-bubble-able hard to catch sniper battleships plez

    The fact that you're not creative enough to use the ship in PvP doesnt make them bad ships.

    Shivanthar wrote:
    PvE side:
    In many of my previous posts, I mentioned this a lot. For Vargur, even it is buffed to a degree which won't affect it when fitting mjd and ab/mwd together, you will loose boost buff. In order to fight safe, you will have to go into bastion to get resists. So you MUST play sniper. All the time. It will slow mission completion time. For whole 3 years, during fleet pve, I haven't seen any sniper BS in lvl 4 mission, that had surprassed 1:4 ratio of ship killing of my Vargur. For every 4 foes I kill, I hear a big boom, killing a foe, if not missed. So, if you were completing a mission in let's say 45 minutes including salvaging. I can clearly estimate its new completion time as close to or more than 3 hours including salvaging. Don't laugh on this, I will hear you cry here after it goes live :D

    All I'm trying to do is saving my marauder as a mission runner. Otherwise it will be going down in flames :P

    I will repeat myself here: This is not that ship! Do you want to hear which ship would be best for this role in Minmatar? A T2 maelstrom hull BS. Being already a good sniper platform, it will fit this role much better than Tempest platform, for example.
    On other factions, I'm not sure, their Marauder pilots can give tons of advices for their precious ones.

    There are so many things wrong with this I dont even know where to start . . .

    First of all, again why do you HAVE to fit a MJD to your PvE setup? If it benefits you, then do it; if it doesnt benefit you, then dont.

    Second, what in the holy LOL why are you running a fleet for level 4 missions? It is far more effective to run individual level 4s separately.

    Lastly; how is it even conceivable that you are having trouble tanking level 4s in a vargur? I tank level 4s in a shield tanked dominix, and in fact, I tank level 4s in an armor tanked domi with 3 damage mods! If you have to resort to using sniper tactics to stay alive in a level 4, youre seriously doing something wrong.



    The golem has problems tanking lvl 4's if you're using an x-l booster.
    This is because of the terrible cap.
    Even with a x-type, with a large cap booster, you still will cap out in like 1min 20 seconds or so...
    My nightmare does way better on cap, and it's a freaking laser boat.
    And i'm talking about with t2 tachs on it, x-l shield booster, tracking computer, 3 active resists, and a large cap booster.

    Edit..
    Oh, and it's got a massive sig.
    NPCs pound the hell out of you, and when I used to fly it as a torp boat, it got bounded and a large shield booster came no where near keeping up.



    Problems... tanking a lvl 4?

    Mate, i think you're doing it wrong..


    Dual medium boosters works great on a Golem. Or pulse the XL. XL's aren't designed for permarunning. Even larges. But you can work a dual medium (one perma running, second for backup for the higher DPS Epic Arcs).

    Bastion will completely screw over the dual medium booster tank setup, beacuse if its like siege mode, Crystal implants won't affect it.

    And off the quote, I read that they are trying to get 37km range torpedoes? I get that already with CN torps and a rig if I wanted to. 37km isn't long enough to compensate for the 100km jump from a MJD. Need at least 50km, to halve the difference between you and your target. Stock CN range with skills, is 31km. Plenty long enough for a MWD geared ship. I'm thinking scrap the whole Bastion, just make minor tweaks, and make Marauders like Heavy Assault Ships, up close and personal in your face DPS with better tank than T1 counterparts. Seems thats what the community can all agree on.

    My Original Marauder Suggestions Post: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3556070#post3556070
    Joe Risalo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #4071 - 2013-09-25 01:27:08 UTC
    Garviel Tarrant wrote:
    Joe Risalo wrote:
    Sigras wrote:
    Shivanthar wrote:
    I really read a lot of posts here, since my Marauder is my only real enjoyment in this game.

    In the end, you'll end up with this on PvP side:

    A very expensive ship, that boosts itself when changed: Absolutely crap. During a fleet battle, if I mjd away and hit bastion, I will be locked for 1 min right? Now, somebody tell me, especially for the guys who have used interceptors. With a price tag of billion(s), and having ehp of a over-average bs, wouldn't a Marauder be your first priority?
    If you really up for it, how many seconds will it take to get nearby of a bastion-Marauder? I count 25 is enough. Within 45 seconds at best, any interceptor can bring their fleet as much as 50km away of a Marauder, who is still locked on its place. With very little ehp, and unable to get logi support, 10 man fleet's F1 will turn a Marauder into dust within seconds, who hasn't shot his guns 4th time yet :P My math may be wrong here, not counting RoF bonus etc... Let's say 5th shot. You're paying billions to go into a stationary mode which risks you dying in 1 minute, without even shooting much. Sounds very fun isn't it?

    Who on earth said you HAD to use bastion mode for PvP? If you're stupid enough to dorp into bastion mode in that situation you deserve to lose your ship.

    How about you use your MWD to run away while sniping at them from 100 km then MJD away whenever anyone gets close? I would like un-bubble-able hard to catch sniper battleships plez

    The fact that you're not creative enough to use the ship in PvP doesnt make them bad ships.

    Shivanthar wrote:
    PvE side:
    In many of my previous posts, I mentioned this a lot. For Vargur, even it is buffed to a degree which won't affect it when fitting mjd and ab/mwd together, you will loose boost buff. In order to fight safe, you will have to go into bastion to get resists. So you MUST play sniper. All the time. It will slow mission completion time. For whole 3 years, during fleet pve, I haven't seen any sniper BS in lvl 4 mission, that had surprassed 1:4 ratio of ship killing of my Vargur. For every 4 foes I kill, I hear a big boom, killing a foe, if not missed. So, if you were completing a mission in let's say 45 minutes including salvaging. I can clearly estimate its new completion time as close to or more than 3 hours including salvaging. Don't laugh on this, I will hear you cry here after it goes live :D

    All I'm trying to do is saving my marauder as a mission runner. Otherwise it will be going down in flames :P

    I will repeat myself here: This is not that ship! Do you want to hear which ship would be best for this role in Minmatar? A T2 maelstrom hull BS. Being already a good sniper platform, it will fit this role much better than Tempest platform, for example.
    On other factions, I'm not sure, their Marauder pilots can give tons of advices for their precious ones.

    There are so many things wrong with this I dont even know where to start . . .

    First of all, again why do you HAVE to fit a MJD to your PvE setup? If it benefits you, then do it; if it doesnt benefit you, then dont.

    Second, what in the holy LOL why are you running a fleet for level 4 missions? It is far more effective to run individual level 4s separately.

    Lastly; how is it even conceivable that you are having trouble tanking level 4s in a vargur? I tank level 4s in a shield tanked dominix, and in fact, I tank level 4s in an armor tanked domi with 3 damage mods! If you have to resort to using sniper tactics to stay alive in a level 4, youre seriously doing something wrong.



    The golem has problems tanking lvl 4's if you're using an x-l booster.
    This is because of the terrible cap.
    Even with a x-type, with a large cap booster, you still will cap out in like 1min 20 seconds or so...
    My nightmare does way better on cap, and it's a freaking laser boat.
    And i'm talking about with t2 tachs on it, x-l shield booster, tracking computer, 3 active resists, and a large cap booster.

    Edit..
    Oh, and it's got a massive sig.
    NPCs pound the hell out of you, and when I used to fly it as a torp boat, it got bounded and a large shield booster came no where near keeping up.



    Problems... tanking a lvl 4?

    Mate, i think you're doing it wrong..


    Have you ever used a torp golem before?
    Pre torp nerf they barely had the range to hit targets at max mission orbit.
    This meant that everything was at their optimal.
    There have been many missions that a golem couldn't tank due to cap.
    One specific mission.
    Smash the Supplier- anti-amarr mission.
    You attack anything and the entire room aggroes.
    I was able to complete that mission in a drake, but I wasn't able to in a torp or cruise golem.
    This was due to cap, lagged damage application, sig, and low mobility.
    I've had many missions that were more difficult in a golem than with any other ship I have used, including the drake.
    It gets hammered in missions.
    I haven't flown one since they buffed cruise missiles, and that may have helped the golem, but on missions with close range targets, it will still get hammered.
    I can remove everything but the large cap booster and x-l pith x shield booster and a nightmare has 1 min 40 seconds WITH t2 tachs. Golem has 1 min 41 seconds with just the shield booster and cap booster... WTF???
    Joe Risalo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #4072 - 2013-09-25 01:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
    NiteNinja wrote:


    Dual medium boosters works great on a Golem. Or pulse the XL. XL's aren't designed for permarunning. Even larges. But you can work a dual medium (one perma running, second for backup for the higher DPS Epic Arcs).

    Bastion will completely screw over the dual medium booster tank setup, beacuse if its like siege mode, Crystal implants won't affect it.

    And off the quote, I read that they are trying to get 37km range torpedoes? I get that already with CN torps and a rig if I wanted to. 37km isn't long enough to compensate for the 100km jump from a MJD. Need at least 50km, to halve the difference between you and your target. Stock CN range with skills, is 31km. Plenty long enough for a MWD geared ship. I'm thinking scrap the whole Bastion, just make minor tweaks, and make Marauders like Heavy Assault Ships, up close and personal in your face DPS with better tank than T1 counterparts. Seems thats what the community can all agree on.

    My Original Marauder Suggestions Post: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3556070#post3556070


    What are you trading to fit that second booster? resists, cap boost, or target painters?

    The other question is, what would you be willing to give up in order to fit a MJD?
    If you say nothing, this is exactly why I suggest 8 mid slots.



    The problem with making Marauders in your face brawlers is part of what I mentioned... They don't have the cap to brawl, they don't have the speed to brawl, and their sig is way too big to brawl.

    The last thing you wanna do is take a massive ship and attempt to fight a smaller ship close up and personal.
    Even if you have the most dps, it probably won't matter.


    P.S. = Did they revert the range nerf of Javelin torps at some point in the last year? Or do I have a crappy version of EFT that's still telling me 65km with Javelins?
    Lair Osen
    #4073 - 2013-09-25 01:55:08 UTC
    NiteNinja wrote:

    Dual medium boosters works great on a Golem. Or pulse the XL. XL's aren't designed for permarunning. Even larges. But you can work a dual medium (one perma running, second for backup for the higher DPS Epic Arcs).

    Bastion will completely screw over the dual medium booster tank setup, beacuse if its like siege mode, Crystal implants won't affect it.

    My Original Marauder Suggestions Post: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3556070#post3556070


    I'm pretty sure the reason crystals don't work in siege is because they don't affect Capital Modules, not that they're nullified in Siege mode.
    Jasmine Assasin
    The Holy Rollers
    #4074 - 2013-09-25 02:55:33 UTC
    marVLs wrote:
    Hmmm TP bonus on Golem seems useless at least for lvl4s. There's no sense using torps when we got awesome cruise missiles, You fit rigors in rigs, kill BS's with Fury's, Cruisers and BC's die from one volley with t1 ammo...


    With the TP bonus, a Domination TP and good TP skills the Rigor rigs aren't needed at all though.

    Jasmine Assasin
    The Holy Rollers
    #4075 - 2013-09-25 02:56:26 UTC
    Lair Osen wrote:
    NiteNinja wrote:

    Dual medium boosters works great on a Golem. Or pulse the XL. XL's aren't designed for permarunning. Even larges. But you can work a dual medium (one perma running, second for backup for the higher DPS Epic Arcs).

    Bastion will completely screw over the dual medium booster tank setup, beacuse if its like siege mode, Crystal implants won't affect it.

    My Original Marauder Suggestions Post: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3556070#post3556070


    I'm pretty sure the reason crystals don't work in siege is because they don't affect Capital Modules, not that they're nullified in Siege mode.


    That is correct.
    Lair Osen
    #4076 - 2013-09-25 03:07:09 UTC
    Jasmine Assasin wrote:
    Lair Osen wrote:
    NiteNinja wrote:

    Dual medium boosters works great on a Golem. Or pulse the XL. XL's aren't designed for permarunning. Even larges. But you can work a dual medium (one perma running, second for backup for the higher DPS Epic Arcs).

    Bastion will completely screw over the dual medium booster tank setup, beacuse if its like siege mode, Crystal implants won't affect it.

    My Original Marauder Suggestions Post: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3556070#post3556070


    I'm pretty sure the reason crystals don't work in siege is because they don't affect Capital Modules, not that they're nullified in Siege mode.


    That is correct.


    Thats actually kind of strange since Slaves still affect Capitals :S
    Adriana Nolen
    Sama Guild
    #4077 - 2013-09-25 03:51:20 UTC
    Bastion mode could use huge boost to cap recharge. Somewhere in the range of 200% to combat nuets.
    An extra turret would also be awesome.
    Arthur Aihaken
    CODE.d
    #4078 - 2013-09-25 04:16:32 UTC
    At least the new animations show some promise.

    I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
    Joe Risalo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #4079 - 2013-09-25 04:22:56 UTC
    I still say drop the 8th high and give that spot somewhere else on the ships.
    Maybe mids for golem and Vargur, ands lows for Pali and kronos
    Nyvi Ane
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #4080 - 2013-09-25 05:06:41 UTC
    I think CCP have a Choice to search a other way for marauders.
    Marauders can be the best pve ships but they don't must have the superior dps or agility.

    Give the Marauders 2 special Maruader Items.
    1. a area of Effekt Tractor Beam only for marauders
    2. a Area of effekt Salvager

    This two Item make a marauder superior and unique and give them a PVE advantage.
    Combine this with Bastion mode and u have a isk machine without touching dps or something.

    And the PVP mates sorry u have bastion with 2 utility Slots.