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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3901 - 2013-09-20 05:58:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
marVLs wrote:
Funny that marauders try to be the best in PVE but they aren't the best in most important thing for that: DPS


Only in theory. Ewar immunity is a great thing in few missions. A good omni tank in few others (not to metnion sleepers etc.).

To be honest what I really could use one my Paladin (my thinking before this tread even started) is:

1) +7,5 range bonus (instead of web or capacitor bonus preferably) - DONE

2) slight incerase in tractor beam range to match pulse laser range. - NOT DONE

3) better tank (YES), espacialy passive omni tank (to make use outside lvl 4 missions) - DONE, but for Paladin and Vargur actually it comes with the slight nerf (no resissts increase against racial rats but removel of rep bonus)

4) better sensor strenght for PvP - NOT DONE

5) some kind of ewar immunity against rats - DONE (Great job) but with immobile bastion that kinda has a lot of drawbacks.

As for no amarr pilots: yesterday my gang enountered fleet composed of: 5-6 absolutions, 2 legions, 3 guardians, 1 loki. So there are still all-amarr fleets Big smile.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3902 - 2013-09-20 06:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Unless of course like in many cases they are ganking for kill mails not loot.. 6 or 8 nados for a 1 bil + kill mail?? Hmm lets see yeah, your a target for pretty much any gank gang around.


This is... pretty much the opposite of true. Sure there are people who go around high-sec ganking to pad their killboards but they tend to choose targets that are profitable rather than just shooting anything that moves over a certain ISK value or they join one of the numerous war-dec corps around. Ganking high-sec mission runners with T2 fits doesn't tend to get you much beyond casual mockery whenever you try to show off your killboard.

So your saying no-one is going to fit faction mods on a ship with a hull price of around 1 bil, just so they won't get ganked??

During the 1st jita burn, a few of us got bored so went roaming mission space, the loot barely covered the cost of our ships but damn we had some fun. Didn't cover costs but had nice tears

The casual "lets go gank something shiny" attitude lives on in many, if it happens to drop enough to cover costs, even better. And by all means, if a 1 or 2 bil kill is going to get me mocked simply because it didn't drop enough loot to cover the cost of a few nados, go ahead and mock. His tears far out-way any mockery

Also, people gank mining barges all the time, where is the profit there. Ok a dessi is a lot cheaper than a nado but then so is the KM. Gankers work in a price range, profit is not always a consideration. It is usually worked out on - how many of what given ship will it take to kill this thing before concord kills us. As long as the LossMail is greater (isk wise) than ours, it will die.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#3903 - 2013-09-20 06:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Cassius Invictus wrote:
marVLs wrote:
Funny that marauders try to be the best in PVE but they aren't the best in most important thing for that: DPS


Only in theory. Ewar immunity is a great thing in few missions. A good omni tank in few others (not to metnion sleepers etc.).

To be honest what I really could use one my Paladin (my thinking before this tread even started) is:

1) +7,5 range bonus (instead of web or capacitor bonus preferably) - DONE

2) slight incerase in tractor beam range to match pulse laser range. - NOT DONE

3) better tank (YES), espacialy passive omni tank (to make use outside lvl 4 missions) - DONE, but for Paladin and Vargur actually it comes with the slight nerf (no resissts increase against racial rats but removel of rep bonus)

4) better sensor strenght for PvP - NOT DONE

5) some kind of ewar immunity against rats - DONE (Great job) but with immobile bastion that kinda has a lot of drawbacks.

As for no amarr pilots: yesterday my gang enountered fleet composed of: 5-6 absolutions, 2 legions, 3 guardians, 1 loki. So there are still all-amarr fleets Big smile.


Webber bonus on the Golem is a large piece of manure. It wastes the slots you need for your TP/tank and even a torp Golem (not that much of a good ship anyway) haves a range in the 30+ kilometers.

What marauders need is damage application bonus. Have said a few times and here i come again: the post-bastion marauder should be a MJD'ed snipping ship with increased short range DPS under bastion mode. That flexibility would make them worth the price tag; you're paying a couple billion and several million SP to fly that thing, so it should be worth it.

By the way, the marauders are going to be "bastioned" no matter what. That's because bastion mode it's being produced by the art team and so bastion mode is here to stay, what we're discussing (at elast the players, wonder wether CCP is still with us?) it's the use of that module.

CCP's silence is slightly unsettling at the moment. It wouldn't be unthinkable that marauder iteration was "OK'ed for production" after the second iteration and currently CCP Ytterbium & al were working on something else while PR guys start thinking what will they do as players outburst in rage once the 2nd nerfucking of maruders is released untouched in its current state... CCP haves a funny record of similar deeds.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#3904 - 2013-09-20 08:09:14 UTC
I doubt I'll ever use the MJD on the marauders. I like being right in the middle of all the rats, letting them all get into tractor range. Jumping off 100km would be a pain in the ass. Not to mention the trail of wrecks you would have to deal with because everything was flying towards you.

I would also like the tractor bonuses increased.
Cade Windstalker
#3905 - 2013-09-20 08:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
TheFace Asano wrote:
It is stationary in bastion mode. You cannot dock for 60 seconds after the mode is over. You have horrible speed and horrible sensor strength outside of Bastion. Give it more drawbacks if need be. I am just saying the module is pretty useless if it doesn't increase performance by a great deal. It locks you in place. As of now I will probably just use the CNR or a Mach, they both do more dps. You don't need much tank to clear pve sites and they are too expensive to pvp in.


Pretty awesome tank though, and if I can tank your Mach's DPS better than you can tank mine then my ship wins. DPS is not the end-all of everything in this game.

Besides, these are supposed to be niche PvP ships, not the new #1 PvP meta.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
So your saying no-one is going to fit faction mods on a ship with a hull price of around 1 bil, just so they won't get ganked??

During the 1st jita burn, a few of us got bored so went roaming mission space, the loot barely covered the cost of our ships but damn we had some fun. Didn't cover costs but had nice tears

The casual "lets go gank something shiny" attitude lives on in many, if it happens to drop enough to cover costs, even better. And by all means, if a 1 or 2 bil kill is going to get me mocked simply because it didn't drop enough loot to cover the cost of a few nados, go ahead and mock. His tears far out-way any mockery

Also, people gank mining barges all the time, where is the profit there. Ok a dessi is a lot cheaper than a nado but then so is the KM. Gankers work in a price range, profit is not always a consideration. It is usually worked out on - how many of what given ship will it take to kill this thing before concord kills us. As long as the LossMail is greater (isk wise) than ours, it will die.


Sure, if you're worried about being ganked why not? It's not that no-one will do it, but it's a consideration for people who mission for PLEX to sub their account each month and therefore don't have 2bil+ just sitting around to replace a loss mail if someone realizes they're shiny and goes to gank them.

Sure there are random gankers, but this isn't exactly a common occurrence and you are far more likely to get your ship ganked out from under you with a T1 hull and shiny mods than you are a shiny hull and T2 mods with maybe a little faction. If someone can put 100k EHP on a Marauder for ~800 mil then you're going to have a tough time bringing it down efficiently even with Tornadoes.

At the end of the day it's all about making yourself less of a target, since there's always the chance of someone roaming around looking for something to gank.

Joe Risalo wrote:
ok, I know Xequecal is against my proposal, but I'm not sure where you stand from your comments..
Actually, i'm not even sure you're referring to my proposal.

Ok, I can't do the math so someone else will have to do it for me.
Factor my existing Golem resists : 0 EM - 50 EX - 47.5 KI - 40 TH
with t2 bonus.

Now, take my proposed idea.
33 EM - 33 EX - 36 KI - 35 TH
and factor them with t2 resists.


Then perhaps see what it would take to build a strong Omni-tank with both designs.

I don't know the math, nor do I care to try.


Personally I'm against your proposal. The differences between shield and armor resists and between the different factions make for more interesting gameplay and I'd just as soon not see them removed.

Also your proposed resists are, just from the look of things, not balanced compared to current resists. Never mind that you actually end up with a nerf to certain resists which throws things off rather badly. Some quick calculations though say that your proposed resists are a nerf over any of the current T2 resists in terms of total % increase and therefore total EHP.

m3talc0re X wrote:
I doubt I'll ever use the MJD on the marauders. I like being right in the middle of all the rats, letting them all get into tractor range. Jumping off 100km would be a pain in the ass. Not to mention the trail of wrecks you would have to deal with because everything was flying towards you.

I would also like the tractor bonuses increased.


There's always the option of MJDing INTO the rats, just saying.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3906 - 2013-09-20 10:01:19 UTC
In the light of this thread I have tried some missions with an MJD and/or MWD fitted (in the past I often didn't fit a prop mod at all).
On balance, the MWD is a great deal more useful for these reasons.
1. You are never in a position of having to travel 100km in a mission site.
2. An MWD will get you to a mid-range (say < 70km) position much faster than an MJD triangle.
3. It gives the ability to dictate range to rats precisely, maximising outgoing DPS while minimising incoming damage.

I would say that an MJD bonus on a marauder is un-necessary and could be more usefully replaced with something else (base speed, salvage chance, tractor beam range for example...)

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3907 - 2013-09-20 10:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
Cade Windstalker wrote:


Joe Risalo wrote:
ok, I know Xequecal is against my proposal, but I'm not sure where you stand from your comments..
Actually, i'm not even sure you're referring to my proposal.

Ok, I can't do the math so someone else will have to do it for me.
Factor my existing Golem resists : 0 EM - 50 EX - 47.5 KI - 40 TH
with t2 bonus.

Now, take my proposed idea.
33 EM - 33 EX - 36 KI - 35 TH
and factor them with t2 resists.


Then perhaps see what it would take to build a strong Omni-tank with both designs.

I don't know the math, nor do I care to try.


Personally I'm against your proposal. The differences between shield and armor resists and between the different factions make for more interesting gameplay and I'd just as soon not see them removed.

Also your proposed resists are, just from the look of things, not balanced compared to current resists. Never mind that you actually end up with a nerf to certain resists which throws things off rather badly. Some quick calculations though say that your proposed resists are a nerf over any of the current T2 resists in terms of total % increase and therefore total EHP.


True. This is why the base omni resists should be higher. Sleipnir shields resists profile: EM 62,5/ Exp 50 / Kin 40% / Th 50. This what should be implemented on maraduers. Overopowered? Then reduce active tank to 50-75%. This is the crown jewel of the sub-cap ships. Give it something to shine with. Better and more balanced resists make those ships more potent at lvl4, incursions, wh sleepers, pvp. And make everyone happy.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3908 - 2013-09-20 10:19:24 UTC
+1 for increasing tractor beam range to match weapons range for the ships. I guess we could activate bastion mode to do so though if u lose target lock when the bastion module deactivates it will be srsly annoying. Might as well just increase the tractor beam range.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3909 - 2013-09-20 11:28:13 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
+1 for increasing tractor beam range to match weapons range for the ships. I guess we could activate bastion mode to do so though if u lose target lock when the bastion module deactivates it will be srsly annoying. Might as well just increase the tractor beam range.

Simliar to Orca Role bonuses; maybe 75% range, 50% velocity, just to help pick up the wrecks spread out due to using MJD.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3910 - 2013-09-20 13:16:10 UTC
Personally, if I was going to design the Marauders, I'd stick with CCPs current design (T2 resists, 100% rep bonus on bastion, no resists on bastion) and give each a unique racial-themed ability designed mostly for PvE but having a niche use in PvP.

Paladin - Same role bonus and slot layout. 5% laser damage, 7.5% laser tracking, 7.5% laser optimal range, 20% energy vampire (not neutralizer) transfer amount and range per level. In PvE, that means you can essentially mount +25 cap/sec rechargers in your highslots, as rats can be infinitely nossed. That frees up all your slots for damage/tracking/tank mods. Also, since it's nos only, it's not overpowered in PvP like neuts would be, but still has a niche use, like draining capitals.

Kronos - Make a drone boat out of this, because let's face it, hybrid guns suck for PvE, especially on an immobile platform like these. You can't select damage type, blasters have no range, and railguns have no damage. So, same slot layout as now, but no turret or launcher hardpoints. Instead, replace the current role bonus with one that reduces the fitting of Drone Control Units by enough that the ship can fit them. 10% drone hp/damage, 7.5% drone range, 7.5% drone speed/tracking, +1 drone control unit per level. The ship has plenty of high slots left over to fit remote reps to RR sentry drones to maintain aggro if rat aggro on drones is a problem. Also has a niche use in a sentry drone PvP doctrine. In exchange for flying a 1bil hull, you can bring 2 players' worth of sentries. Probably not worth it, but could be.

Vargur - This ship would get the web bonus because it's thematically appropriate for Minmatar. Same role bonus/slot/turret layout. 5% RoF, 7.5% projectile tracking, 10% projectile falloff, 10% web strength per level. Give it more drone bandwidth than Paladin/Golem because autocannons have low dps.

Golem - I'm not sure about this one. I originally thought that a damage and range bonus for smartbombs would be great, say 20%/level, but realized that would make the ship useless in empire. Caldari doesn't really have any niches other than "missiles are gud" that are adaptable to PvE and wouldn't be broken overpowered in PvP.
Shivanthar
#3911 - 2013-09-20 13:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
As a Marauder (particularly a Vargur) pilot for a looong loong time, I don't feel comfortable with the changes too much. However, mini-dread is an interesting (and yet, meaningless for this role) thing I must admit...

1- Reduced drone bays. Why? So, I'm in a mission, trying to destroy one battleship and a frigate. Frigate scrambled me, I destroyed the BS, and then? Oh 7km orbitting frigate... Doh! Where are my drones? Oh my SALVAGE DRONES! Aahhhhh, endless loop of a scrambled marauder?

2- Really doesn't care about MJD timer or whatsoever... I would, if I had a massive dronebay with bonuses. That's only a pvp oriented change.

3- Full T2 resistance is good (Actually it should've been there ages ago). But don't think that I didn't see the removal of the shield boost bonus on Vargur. I don't know if it compansates...

4- "Marauder" as a role, should be a "fast" ship. Making its mass bigger or even worse, making it stop won't fit its role. Instead, you guys really think about making its ass bigger. We need SPEED. "Marauder". Read it loud and think.

I don't know why I am so upset, but It's not like I don't like changes, I like them, unless some of them smells "balance" issues. Especially trying to compansate balance issues those creating holes that are role-against and meaning-against.

My ship needs two stuff: Some speed and some salvage oriented bonus (tractor beam range, to be more specific).
Speed in detail: Instead of a mini-dread thing, make your good looking change anyway, don't call it bastion! But make it look mobile, immune to ewar, decrease tracking and falloff by %50, but create a bonus that boosts speed by %500 or something. So I CAN BE A REAL MARAUDER during fleet battles? Hm?

Edit: I also always get irritiated by my ship recommending target painter standart certificate while having no bonuses for it...

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#3912 - 2013-09-20 13:58:31 UTC
the biggest problem with this revamp proposal is the disparity between superior damage projection (even with short range weapons) and the bonus for a standard ranged web.

either

i mjd into enemies tackle and web all the things (GOOD LUCK WITH THE LOW RESOLUTION) go into bastion and play pitbull untill my friends arive

or i try to make use of the superior dmg projection.

just feels like a concept with a gigantic crack in its core. it may make sense for the kronos because of blaster-obliteration, but giving all marauders the same thing tastes kinda stale.

imho, marauders should be the kind of ship you want to annoy people in their own home and bail quickly when the **** hits the fan. the mjd goes in that direction, but mobility nerv and bastion mode do not fit in this image.
maybe use the bastion mode for a third kind of t2 battleship (former tier3 hulls) and focus marauders more on the pillaging way of life.
Shivanthar
#3913 - 2013-09-20 14:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
If you read my previous post (some posts up), I am here to help you CCP.

This is directly taken from merriam-webster:
MARAUD: to roam about and raid in search of plunder.
MARAUDER: somebody who is "marauding"

First Known Use: 1711

So, congrats to you guys!
You converted (or trying to convert) something that have been raiding (and for this, must be fast) for last 3 centuries into a stationary object. Or slow object if not stationary. Good work! I can maraud with this stationary object FASTER THAN EVER! YES!

Edit:
I perfectly understand that you guys try to fit a pvp role for these beasts. If so, make it role-wise, speed it up in a unique way that people can "maraud" in it. MJD'ing is not marauding. A marauder is always in the heat of the battle, but it is very agile that it takes what it wants and goes away. It is no way intent to fight, instead it goes in, takes what it wants and runs out.

Please think this seriously before giving us a stationary role.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3914 - 2013-09-20 14:34:35 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:
If you read my previous post (some posts up), I am here to help you CCP.

This is directly taken from merriam-webster:
MARAUD: to roam about and raid in search of plunder.
MARAUDER: somebody who is "marauding"

First Known Use: 1711

So, congrats to you guys!
You made something that have been raiding (and for this, must be fast) for last 3 centuries into a stationary object. Or slow object if not stationary. Good work! I can maraud with this stationary object FASTER THAN EVER! YES!


Nothing about marauding suggests speed.
As a matter of fact, it more suggests brute force.
It could also suggest the ability to take a bit and keep on coming.

What I'm saying is, there is nothing in the definition that suggests speed.

I could take a large battalion of heavily armored knights, with trebuchets and battering rams, moving slowly across the plains to tear down a castle and we would still be considered marauders if we are there to loot and plunder.

This is the case in Eve, and on live, refers specifically to marauding npcs.
Shivanthar
#3915 - 2013-09-20 14:43:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Joe Risalo wrote:
[quote=Shivanthar]
Nothing about marauding suggests speed.
As a matter of fact, it more suggests brute force.
It could also suggest the ability to take a bit and keep on coming.

What I'm saying is, there is nothing in the definition that suggests speed.

I could take a large battalion of heavily armored knights, with trebuchets and battering rams, moving slowly across the plains to tear down a castle and we would still be considered marauders if we are there to loot and plunder.

This is the case in Eve, and on live, refers specifically to marauding npcs.


My friend, you're mixing burglary with marauding.

A marauder is powerful, yet it uses its speed over power. It is fast, rushing onto you, takes what it wants and goes away.

Look into youtube for some marauding videos, then let's talk again.

Edit: How many stationary livings can you give as an example for a marauder? My point is different.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3916 - 2013-09-20 15:20:48 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
[quote=Shivanthar]
Nothing about marauding suggests speed.
As a matter of fact, it more suggests brute force.
It could also suggest the ability to take a bit and keep on coming.

What I'm saying is, there is nothing in the definition that suggests speed.

I could take a large battalion of heavily armored knights, with trebuchets and battering rams, moving slowly across the plains to tear down a castle and we would still be considered marauders if we are there to loot and plunder.

This is the case in Eve, and on live, refers specifically to marauding npcs.


My friend, you're mixing burglary with marauding.

A marauder is powerful, yet it uses its speed over power. It is fast, rushing onto you, takes what it wants and goes away.

Look into youtube for some marauding videos, then let's talk again.

Edit: How many stationary livings can you give as an example for a marauder? My point is different.


Just like a trebuchet, it is only immobile for a short period of time.

However, it can be packed up and moved with relative ease.
Also, YouTube does not a good example make.

Telling me to look at YouTube for what a marauder does is like telling me to touch a turned on stove to feel the surface of the sun.
Your belief of what a marauder is, is based solely on what you have seen on TV and (of course) YouTube.
Take the definition for what it is. It's a broad spectrum.
Your understanding is a narrow example...
Now, your example is probably the most common use of marauders, but marauding isn't limited to just your example.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3917 - 2013-09-20 15:37:35 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Personally, if I was going to design the Marauders, I'd stick with CCPs current design (T2 resists, 100% rep bonus on bastion, no resists on bastion).


Just a question on rep bonuses and resists (I'm not real good with math so may need some help)

Running a shield tank with 2 T2 X large repper, T2 Boost Amplifier, EM ward and invul, 2 T2 extender rigs (for base EHP)

Golem in current state has base shield of 14,760HP with T2 extender rigs ( my skills), 2 extra large reppers un-bonused rep at 1380HP per 5s add a T2 Boost amp they rep 1,876HP per 5s. Now add 100% rep bonus for bastion mode, you are repping say 15k shield (with rigs) at 18,760 per 5s.

Would it not be better to keep resists and lower boost amount to 50%. You have more overall tank to rep but are not repping it in 1 cycle.


My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3918 - 2013-09-20 15:43:01 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:
My friend, you're mixing burglary with marauding.

A marauder is powerful, yet it uses its speed over power. It is fast, rushing onto you, takes what it wants and goes away.

Look into youtube for some marauding videos, then let's talk again.

Edit: How many stationary livings can you give as an example for a marauder? My point is different.


I suggest you look up the definition of marauder using google....apparently to maraud is to rove and raid in search of plunder. no mention of speed there nor strength either. however a raid is defined as

1. A surprise attack by a small armed force.
2. A sudden forcible entry into a place by police: a raid on a gambling den.
3. An entrance into another's territory for the purpose of seizing goods or valuables.
4. A predatory operation mounted against a competitor, especially an attempt to lure away the personnel or membership of a competing organization.
5. An attempt to seize control of a company, as by acquiring a majority of its stock.
6. An attempt by speculators to drive stock prices down by coordinated selling.

and to rove is

To wander about at random, especially over a wide area; roam.
v.tr.
To roam or wander around, over, or through. See Synonyms at wander.
n.
An act of wandering about, over, around, or through.


All in all a marauder is probably defined as something that wanders the land using a show of force to get what it needs/wants.

I think with the mjd cd reduction there will be plenty of 'random' hopping around the battlefield and with bastion mode there will be plenty of force behind our attacks

funny how many people are complaining at ccp to check the definition of a marauder. Did you do this yourself before you posted or just trolling?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3919 - 2013-09-20 16:05:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Shivanthar wrote:
My friend, you're mixing burglary with marauding.

A marauder is powerful, yet it uses its speed over power. It is fast, rushing onto you, takes what it wants and goes away.

Look into youtube for some marauding videos, then let's talk again.

Edit: How many stationary livings can you give as an example for a marauder? My point is different.


I suggest you look up the definition of marauder using google....apparently to maraud is to rove and raid in search of plunder. no mention of speed there nor strength either. however a raid is defined as

1. A surprise attack by a small armed force.
2. A sudden forcible entry into a place by police: a raid on a gambling den.
3. An entrance into another's territory for the purpose of seizing goods or valuables.
4. A predatory operation mounted against a competitor, especially an attempt to lure away the personnel or membership of a competing organization.
5. An attempt to seize control of a company, as by acquiring a majority of its stock.
6. An attempt by speculators to drive stock prices down by coordinated selling.

and to rove is

To wander about at random, especially over a wide area; roam.
v.tr.
To roam or wander around, over, or through. See Synonyms at wander.
n.
An act of wandering about, over, around, or through.


All in all a marauder is probably defined as something that wanders the land using a show of force to get what it needs/wants.

I think with the mjd cd reduction there will be plenty of 'random' hopping around the battlefield and with bastion mode there will be plenty of force behind our attacks

funny how many people are complaining at ccp to check the definition of a marauder. Did you do this yourself before you posted or just trolling?

Thank you for assisting with clearing that up.

Now, what your post does bring to mind is a suggestion that I had.
Leave marauders as they are... Well, except for the needed buffs to make them good at what they were originally designed for.

Now, create a new t2 class from tier 3 bss.
Class name...
Raiders..
Designed as high speed, high precision ships.
No range bonuses.
Not as much dps as short range marauders, but more effective dps and bonuses to webs or whatever else....
They are the fastest of bs hulls, most agile, and have bonuses to mwd and jump drive fuel consumption...
A really good bonus to jump drive at that.

A crew of 5-10 of these can cause enough disruption to draw the attention of whomever is being attacked.
Forcing them to draw units away from the intended target, only to arrive at an empty system.

This give all the pvp'ers in this thread a ship to make them happy, while leaving marauders as they were intended.
Both ships would have focus, and be niche in certain situations.

The raiders wouldn't have that great of a tank, but would make up for it in high mobility.
Nexumis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3920 - 2013-09-20 17:14:22 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
[quote=TheFace Asano]It is stationary in bastion mode. You cannot dock for 60 seconds after the mode is over. You have horrible speed and horrible sensor strength outside of Bastion. Give it more drawbacks if need be. I am just saying the module is pretty useless if it doesn't increase performance by a great deal. It locks you in place. As of now I will probably just use the CNR or a Mach, they both do more dps. You don't need much tank to clear pve sites and they are too expensive to pvp in.


Pretty awesome tank though, and if I can tank your Mach's DPS better than you can tank mine then my ship wins. DPS is not the end-all of everything in this game.

Um i think the guy meant enough tank to run mission, anoms, and plexs. But from a pvp perspective against a mach....no just because you can tank the machs dps doesnt mean you win, mach can always leave the fight due to bastion module rooting you in place lol. The reason i can see why ccp WILL NOT increase the dps is because they dont want people to bring more isk into the game than we currently are making because increased dps means faster missions, and more isk per hour. And then null sec anom/ratters would be making less isk then a effecient mission runner even though now i believe that is the case. EVE needs a major isk sink before ccp starts making mission, complexs, anoms more profitable then they are now. And just to prove you wrong, dps is the biggest factor with a even balance of range. As in ill still use a machariel after the bastion module, because i will still overall run missions faster, considering im just grinding for lp/bounty, no salvage but hey i can just contract those bookmarks out to a salvaging corp and make some isk with that as well : ).

I personally like the guys idea of giving the Kronos drone bonuses and 10 drones : ) who wouldnt want that? 1500 dps with a optimal of 80km and excellent tracking??? plus it would play well with the bastion module, sit still and launch sentries : ) I actually think ccp should make the marauders into mini carriers but not able to use fighters.

Ok but back to the main subject, this bastion module will not encourage players (smart players) to go break up camps in null/low sec, since you will be rooted in place, a seiged moros will make quick work of you no matter how good your tank, and no battleship can have enough ehp to buffer against a dread blapping them. They wont need that webbing loki anymore : ). And with that said i think the only way ccp will do a damage increase on the marauders utilizing the bastion module would be if the module could only be activated outside of empire space like null/low sec.