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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

First post First post First post
Author
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3841 - 2013-09-19 04:26:13 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Why would they waste 6+ attack BCs to suicide gank your marauder? The ship might be worth 1bil but that doesn't drop when you explode. If you don't put billions in deadspace **** on it nobody will bother.

Unless of course like in many cases they are ganking for kill mails not loot.. 6 or 8 nados for a 1 bil + kill mail?? Hmm lets see yeah, your a target for pretty much any gank gang around.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Cade Windstalker
#3842 - 2013-09-19 04:41:54 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Unless of course like in many cases they are ganking for kill mails not loot.. 6 or 8 nados for a 1 bil + kill mail?? Hmm lets see yeah, your a target for pretty much any gank gang around.


This is... pretty much the opposite of true. Sure there are people who go around high-sec ganking to pad their killboards but they tend to choose targets that are profitable rather than just shooting anything that moves over a certain ISK value or they join one of the numerous war-dec corps around. Ganking high-sec mission runners with T2 fits doesn't tend to get you much beyond casual mockery whenever you try to show off your killboard.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3843 - 2013-09-19 08:32:20 UTC
Isinero wrote:
if there will be balanced ressists it would be much much much better. But I dont think that they will introduce anything like that.

So I am happy with at least T2 ressist which I get instead of 37,5 % repair amount :-) (active tank is same, but I have also bonus to passive tanking which is nice)



Balanced T2 resists (similar to those of Sleipnir shields) would be actually the greatest fix to proposed marauders so far. Their PvE and PvP effectiveness would greatly increase.

What I want is to change the Paladin cap bonus to tracking bonus. Why Kronos and Vargur who already have good tracking receive it while paladin gets (not so useless) cap bonus and (totally useless) web bonus. I can live with that web if you insist on it but give me something in return.
Suzuma
Makiriemi Industries
#3844 - 2013-09-19 09:10:48 UTC
2 weeks and not a peep from a single Dev on the state of this class?

CEO

Makiriemi Industries

marVLs
#3845 - 2013-09-19 09:21:34 UTC
Suzuma wrote:
2 weeks and not a peep from a single Dev on the state of this class?


Don't hurry, give them time to bring something really good and interesting. I would rather w8 longer and get something worth it, instead of quick "pfff whatever" idea.
woodall
Nemesis-Theory
#3846 - 2013-09-19 09:59:36 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Isinero wrote:
if there will be balanced ressists it would be much much much better. But I dont think that they will introduce anything like that.

So I am happy with at least T2 ressist which I get instead of 37,5 % repair amount :-) (active tank is same, but I have also bonus to passive tanking which is nice)



Balanced T2 resists (similar to those of Sleipnir shields) would be actually the greatest fix to proposed marauders so far. Their PvE and PvP effectiveness would greatly increase.

What I want is to change the Paladin cap bonus to tracking bonus. Why Kronos and Vargur who already have good tracking receive it while paladin gets (not so useless) cap bonus and (totally useless) web bonus. I can live with that web if you insist on it but give me something in return.


I completely agree. In this state, the Paladin gets 12,500 cap with Capacitor Management lvl 5 which is pretty insane for a battleship. Although I wont argue with more capacitor if they are giving it to me, I cant help but think that with that much capacitor, the capacitor capacitor bonus would be much better applied to something like large energy tracking for instance.

I also agree that the web velocity factor bonus is completely inert. I mean, these ships are slow and not very agile, so unless you land right on top of them, you are not going to get a web off. If this was like a 15/20% bonus to web range then that would be a different matter entirely.

You then however come onto a different issue. They largely incentivise you to fit mjd's on these things as well. Add that to a scram/disrupt in any pvp environment and you are only left with 1 free mid for anything else which many people would use for a normal prop mod, but then you're stuffed if you want to use rep fits and need a cap booster. Obviously you can say "just dont fit a mwd/ab or the web" which is entirely true and with that crappy bonus to the web, i would probably remove that so i can use dual prop. This issue also affects the Kronos as well, but I do think that the Kronos and Pally should drop a high so they can get a 5th mid slot. Do deffo get back to me on anything you think that i have overlooked though.

- wood
Hanna Cyrus
Spessart Rebellen
#3847 - 2013-09-19 10:13:31 UTC
Now i have read all posts since the thread has started. i read fear that the marauder is getting worse. I read that pirate BS have to be on top. Some one it balanced to pvp, some to pve. That's too much.

Here my Idea:

Balance Marauder to be the best PVE boat, very expensive, very hig ehp, make them slow, give them t2 resists, give them very good damage projektion and the same dps as pirate dps. But leave some weakness on them, like the achilles heel, so it can't be overpowered in PVP.

Balance pirate BS around PVP (as now), take their ehp down, make them much faster and cheaper than a marauder.

The idea of the same dps: You have the choice! Want a slow heavy ehp brick? Fly Marauder! Want a fast platform? Then use a Pirate BS, the trade for their speed is less ehp. So no class is a jack of all trades anymore.

Both classes have their niches, the pirate BS maybe as fast as the ABC and the slow "fortresses" marauder.



Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3848 - 2013-09-19 10:28:21 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping. Weapon time should not require the user to drop weapon safeties in high-sec [i](being investigated)

  • So will the weapons timer make it undesirable to use bastion mode in hi sec missions? For example i want to do the bonus room of angels extra. Warp in activate bastion mode kill everything. then have to wait 15 mins to dock up and complete the mission? Maybe this could be addressed with the promised LV4 missions revamp by allowing missions to be accepted/completed remotely?
    Isinero
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #3849 - 2013-09-19 10:31:34 UTC
    Cassius Invictus wrote:
    Isinero wrote:
    if there will be balanced ressists it would be much much much better. But I dont think that they will introduce anything like that.

    So I am happy with at least T2 ressist which I get instead of 37,5 % repair amount :-) (active tank is same, but I have also bonus to passive tanking which is nice)



    Balanced T2 resists (similar to those of Sleipnir shields) would be actually the greatest fix to proposed marauders so far. Their PvE and PvP effectiveness would greatly increase.

    What I want is to change the Paladin cap bonus to tracking bonus. Why Kronos and Vargur who already have good tracking receive it while paladin gets (not so useless) cap bonus and (totally useless) web bonus. I can live with that web if you insist on it but give me something in return.



    I would like to remove webifier bonus ... because with jump drive and long range damage application its simply nonsense to have webifier bonus.

    But I would leave cap bonus because it will give you opportunity to be fully cap stable with just 2 cap rechargers II. (thanks to new bonus to capacitator)
    Cassius Invictus
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #3850 - 2013-09-19 10:31:58 UTC
    Hanna Cyrus wrote:
    Now i have read all posts since the thread has started. i read fear that the marauder is getting worse. I read that pirate BS have to be on top. Some one it balanced to pvp, some to pve. That's too much.

    Here my Idea:

    Balance Marauder to be the best PVE boat, very expensive, very hig ehp, make them slow, give them t2 resists, give them very good damage projektion and the same dps as pirate dps. But leave some weakness on them, like the achilles heel, so it can't be overpowered in PVP.

    Balance pirate BS around PVP (as now), take their ehp down, make them much faster and cheaper than a marauder.

    The idea of the same dps: You have the choice! Want a slow heavy ehp brick? Fly Marauder! Want a fast platform? Then use a Pirate BS, the trade for their speed is less ehp. So no class is a jack of all trades anymore.

    Both classes have their niches, the pirate BS maybe as fast as the ABC and the slow "fortresses" marauder.





    What CCP is actually trying to do is make marauders more like pirate BS (good for PvE and PvP) without giving them characteristics that make pirate BS good: dmg, speed, overall universality. This is why they fail. They introduced a couple of weird bonuses that are supposed to compensate for that, but pilots will still chose pirate BS over marauders. At the end of day pirate ships are more coherent at what they do and easier to fly. When flying marauders pilots will need to apply some strange tactics just to make use of the incoherent bonuses that they have. For PvE this may work but for pvp, where every second counts, doing strange stuff does not pay off.
    Isinero
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #3851 - 2013-09-19 10:34:08 UTC
    Bastion Arzi wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping. Weapon time should not require the user to drop weapon safeties in high-sec [i](being investigated)

  • So will the weapons timer make it undesirable to use bastion mode in hi sec missions? For example i want to do the bonus room of angels extra. Warp in activate bastion mode kill everything. then have to wait 15 mins to dock up and complete the mission? Maybe this could be addressed with the promised LV4 missions revamp by allowing missions to be accepted/completed remotely?


    This is good point ... maybe the timer will be removed after you cancel bastion mode? but this would be really stupid to stay there and do nothing because I use bastion mode.
    Xequecal
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #3852 - 2013-09-19 10:37:24 UTC
    Cassius Invictus wrote:
    Isinero wrote:
    if there will be balanced ressists it would be much much much better. But I dont think that they will introduce anything like that.

    So I am happy with at least T2 ressist which I get instead of 37,5 % repair amount :-) (active tank is same, but I have also bonus to passive tanking which is nice)



    Balanced T2 resists (similar to those of Sleipnir shields) would be actually the greatest fix to proposed marauders so far. Their PvE and PvP effectiveness would greatly increase.

    What I want is to change the Paladin cap bonus to tracking bonus. Why Kronos and Vargur who already have good tracking receive it while paladin gets (not so useless) cap bonus and (totally useless) web bonus. I can live with that web if you insist on it but give me something in return.


    Minmatar have the worst T2 resists. It would be good for PvE, terrible for PvP.

    I seriously think everyone should get kin/therm as their T2 resists. EM and exp T2 resists are horrifically underpowered as these damage types are so rare.
    Isinero
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #3853 - 2013-09-19 10:37:50 UTC
    Cassius Invictus: for PvE the new marauders will be much cheaper and much better than pirate ships.

    At least Paladin will be finally nice and I am looking forward to changes. I did not care about other marauders ...

    But the truth is that there are "some bonus statistics" which are useless and I really
    Cassius Invictus
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #3854 - 2013-09-19 10:43:13 UTC
    Xequecal wrote:
    Cassius Invictus wrote:
    Isinero wrote:
    if there will be balanced ressists it would be much much much better. But I dont think that they will introduce anything like that.

    So I am happy with at least T2 ressist which I get instead of 37,5 % repair amount :-) (active tank is same, but I have also bonus to passive tanking which is nice)



    Balanced T2 resists (similar to those of Sleipnir shields) would be actually the greatest fix to proposed marauders so far. Their PvE and PvP effectiveness would greatly increase.

    What I want is to change the Paladin cap bonus to tracking bonus. Why Kronos and Vargur who already have good tracking receive it while paladin gets (not so useless) cap bonus and (totally useless) web bonus. I can live with that web if you insist on it but give me something in return.


    Minmatar have the worst T2 resists. It would be good for PvE, terrible for PvP.

    I seriously think everyone should get kin/therm as their T2 resists. EM and exp T2 resists are horrifically underpowered as these damage types are so rare.


    Loki resists are stupid, but sleipnir resists are good.

    What u write is also very good and would solve many issues. Unifyning T2 resists to Kin/Th would balnce tanks out, balance laser dmg (no need to improve lasers!) and many others. This would however leave the gallente underpowered as the kin/thr is their only dmg type. Sure they have massive dps but at a cost of point blank range.
    Isinero
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #3855 - 2013-09-19 10:43:27 UTC
    btw I would also prefere 1 more mid slots because just for with added jump drive is not enough :-( But I can probably live with that.
    Gosti Kahanid
    Red Sky Morning
    The Amarr Militia.
    #3856 - 2013-09-19 11:04:04 UTC
    Isinero wrote:
    Bastion Arzi wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping. Weapon time should not require the user to drop weapon safeties in high-sec [i](being investigated)

  • So will the weapons timer make it undesirable to use bastion mode in hi sec missions? For example i want to do the bonus room of angels extra. Warp in activate bastion mode kill everything. then have to wait 15 mins to dock up and complete the mission? Maybe this could be addressed with the promised LV4 missions revamp by allowing missions to be accepted/completed remotely?


    This is good point ... maybe the timer will be removed after you cancel bastion mode? but this would be really stupid to stay there and do nothing because I use bastion mode.


    The weapon-timer is one Minute, not 15. Your´e confusing it with the PVP-Timer
    Cartheron Crust
    The Tuskers
    The Tuskers Co.
    #3857 - 2013-09-19 11:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cartheron Crust
    Perhaps just disable prop-mods when in bastion mode. 0m/s seems like a ridiculous liability for something with such little mass and EHP.
    Maximus Aerelius
    PROPHET OF ENIGMA
    #3858 - 2013-09-19 12:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
    Freeism Saurfang
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #3859 - 2013-09-19 13:04:54 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

    PALADIN

  • Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

  • Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
  • 5% bonus to capacitor capacity
    7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)

  • Marauder Skill Bonus:
  • 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
    5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level





    Want to change Paladin's 5% bonus to capacitor capacity to 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed
    (Like Apocalypse)

    Freeism Saurfang
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #3860 - 2013-09-19 13:11:06 UTC
    Freeism Saurfang wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

    PALADIN

  • Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

  • Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
  • 5% bonus to capacitor capacity
    7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)

  • Marauder Skill Bonus:
  • 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
    5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level





    Want to change Paladin's 5% bonus to capacitor capacity to 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed
    (Like Apocalypse)



    Also, base capacitor should get +25% bonus.

    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 8000(+2375) / 1000s (+76.1s) / 8 cap/s (+2)

    to

    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 10000(+4375) / 1000s (+76.1s) / 10 cap/s (+4)